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Rampage Buff

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For a long time I felt the old rampage was fine and was able to do what he was mean't to do. Rush into the enemy team and initiate team fights and cause chaos by chaining a hero and bringing it back. Now I feel that his old role has completely gone and he can no longer effectively initiate and is easily stopped by the enemy team.

 

Reasons:

1. Easily countered/stopped

He used to have magic immunity build up on his charge but now literally anything can stop his charge . Stuns, immobilization, you name it. What's even more frustrating is certain heroes can just click 1 button to stop charges such as Fayde's E, blink abilities (Wretched Hag, Magebane, etc) can stop a charge from across the map. He's all physical damage which means all any support hero needs to buy is a 1350 gold Void Talisman to completely negate him. His global presence got further nerfed when his charge stops on death now. He would have to target a tank or a hero that's not going to be focused on when he charges from afar in order to actually make it to a teamfight if one ever occurred in order to actually make it there.

2. Slow ult and low damage abilities

- The time delay between a player pressing his ult and the actual effect gives players a easy time to quickly to respond and even completely negate it (ex. Disjoint abilties like Sandwraith, Drunken Master, Geometers bane, etc.). The throwback from the ability is not much of an actual throwback even. More like they just fly in the air for a second.  Most rampage players are going to be right on top of their target so there's no point of this effect. And again, if using this ability ranged, most heroes can just simply respond to this given the time delay. Additionally, his abilities deal very little damage (300 damage ult at levell 16 and 220 damage Q). His only saving grace is his E  and his global Q ability which is OP early game but as a team gets more coordinated or gets certain items he's utterly useless.  His passive W is garbage and gives almost next to no damage (A 500 move speed rampage only gets 50 damage big whoop).  He does not scale at all into the mid/late game at all whatsoever due to his low damage and is a 1 trick pony that is only good during the early game.

3.  He's no longer good at his role

- Rampage used to be a good initiator but now he can't even use shrunken head during his charge without cancelling it and therefore is easily stopped. His strength stats and gain per level are the lowest of any strength hero where even some intelligence heroes have even higher strength gain (A Thunderbringer for example has higher strength gain) and therefore he can't be even called a tank. So if he's not a tank/initiator from what he originally was supposed to be what is he?

 

Suggestions:

Bring back his old charge that builds up magic immunity after a certain time period or at least allow him to use shrunken head while charging in order for him to properly initiate. Also bring back his old chains that bind ultimate in order to stop easy counters and allow the actual effect to pass through physical immunity to help stop Void Talisman counters. To buff his damage I would say make his Q scale with his auto attack damage to make him relevant during the mid/late game and also buff his stat gain and also buff/change his W to make it actually useful. Also changing how his charge interacts with certain abilities so they don't instantly cancel his. His E can remain the same I guess since the stun effect was OP before. If you believe these changes are too OP some trade offs could be instead of global charge it could be reduced to a high range

 

In closing, I get that his Q is very tricky to work around and his mechanics can be inherently OP, but when there's so many ways for players to counter him they become irrelevant and he loses his ability to fulfill his role.

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Second that, without a wall of text i want old rampage back at some capacity simply because he was more fun.

 

Couple things i'm unsatisfied with the current rampage:

- E doing only slow. Yes i understand Rampage having 3 stuns on 3 skills slots is way too much, but you knock hard into a guy and he is just slowed for a bit feels really wet noodle. I'd like to see some compromise like half knockback half slow.

- Ult being a straight copy from Dota. On top of the annoyance of abandoning your own interesting take in favor of a more bland version taken from another game, its damage being tied to E is an obsolete concept that doesn't do anything fun except forcing you to max E. Essentially killing build diversity.

- Q W E all being more damage with little difference save for E because ultimate. I really liked the shield he had, worked well in a suicide lane and created another direction he could take. Perhaps another compromise of MS + shield or MS + damage + shield at lower value.

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It may be weird but i think if his E have passive 10% chance to proc again on next attack would be nice. Ortherwise rampage is fail to a weak tanker/ganker role and cant focus on anything. 

I dont know why people complain rampage have many stun, before he got rework he always have 3 stun and still fine.


HoN SEA Player

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I've been playing him in a follow-up initiation role with portal key, especially if there's an insta stun on the enemy team (Witch, Polly etc) He does tremendous damage and this way serves a similar role to Deadwood jumping on the stunner or carry. I've had decent success with it, although like most physical burst heroes he fades late game.

I do think his charge should be reworked to give him the ability to use items during it's channel. That way crowd control items become more relevant for his play style, rather than focusing on a burst ganker/anti-carry.

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3 hours ago, Poseidon said:

I've been playing him in a follow-up initiation role with portal key, especially if there's an insta stun on the enemy team (Witch, Polly etc) He does tremendous damage and this way serves a similar role to Deadwood jumping on the stunner or carry. I've had decent success with it, although like most physical burst heroes he fades late game.

I do think his charge should be reworked to give him the ability to use items during it's channel. That way crowd control items become more relevant for his play style, rather than focusing on a burst ganker/anti-carry.

Unfortunately that won't happen since there was an infinite charge vision exploit associated with it.

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Posted (edited)

I too think Rampage got hit hard when he lost the ability to Shrunken Head midcharge. I think E being a slow only is fine because he already has 2 (mostly) reliable disables built in already.

The problem with Rampage is that he makes for a terrible initiator as he can only really stun 2 people, which is why most Initiators have Stomps (Pestilence, Moraxus), Impales (WS, Fayde), or big AoEs (Tempest, Kraken). I propose that to play on the fact that he has mobility and move speed, his Horned Strike (E) should Stun (for a small duration) if the target is bashed into another hero or tree (much like Grinex Shadowstep). This allows him to reposition players with R, get in with Q and cause utter madness by moving about and throwing stuns around.

I do think Might of the Herd (W) kind of sucks now, but I think the shield was a little too strong honestly. It made Suicide with Rampage incredibly easy. Possibly adding an activatable that makes him immune to slows, roots and immobilizes for a duration could be a way that he could theoretically go Suicide without breaking the power balance too hard. This would also play into E and allow him to actually move around the field when Might is active.

The Hero has always had the problem where he utterly stomps uncoordinated teams who Q'd randomly, but gets shut down easily by ones that are coordinated. It makes balancing him pretty difficult, because I'm sure most casual players would consider him OP.

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)

The hero sacrificed Magic Immunity on charge for instant acceleration to max speed (before, it took a while before he could accelerate).

 

I can give him the trade again if that's what you want (basically making him accelerate slowly & granting him Magic Immunity only after a certain duration).

Edited by ElementUser

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59 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

The hero sacrificed Magic Immunity on charge for instant acceleration to max speed (before, it took a while before he could accelerate).

 

I can give him the trade again if that's what you want (basically making him accelerate slowly & granting him Magic Immunity only after a certain duration).

He had that before after 4 charges gained. With his new Ult and not having the pull it might be fine.


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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I think having the charge starting off slowly but becoming unstoppable when ganking globally is awful.

First, in a normal combat situation, Rampage will indeed become useless and unfun when not having ultimate due to the charge starting slow, making all sort of input from the player useless. Second, how do you balance a ganking hero that started from the other side of the map that is immune to all sort of things you can do for the first half of the game without making him really really bad. The original Rampage had this issue, only balanced out by the fact hero was a big creep in walking distance due to his awful charge start and ult only usable in melee range to begin with.

If Rampage will ever have magic immunity on his charge again, it will have to be at the beginning of it, so that Rampage has an effective range/condition of being close enough and allowing his enemies to counter play by creating distance.

And imo, i'm would remove stun from his charge entirely if it means he can have it on his E again. Think about it, it's functionally the same whether or not it's on Q or E if he's to stun the enemy upon reaching them. If it's on E you can prevent the stacking of 3 stuns while preserving his iconic knockback. In this idea we can turn the charge into an attack with some sort of bonus/buff to proc E on contact. On top of that, ideally, we would have the build diversity of max Q for the charge + whatever bonus it might give, W for shield + MS for defense, E for proc damage and sustain combat.

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Posted (edited)

Just played rampage few match with old dota Style (Max W E). Brass knucles Frostburn, Barbed Armor, and focus on farming instead of roam.

End up a nice and powerfull rounder in mid game, like blitz but melee version and little tanky in Gold/Diamond ranked game.

Still stuck in hard lane or mid lane, but i think the Q Cd 20s is still too long. The E slow without stun seem work fine

The charge run with 700ms without magic immunity work 50/50 depend on enemy's heroes picked. May Reduce it to 600ms but give back magic immunity and Physical armor when charging. Sometimes you dont need to charge too fast to enemy and suddend get cancel when you already get close to them

 

Edited: Just looking the wiki of Spirit Breaker in dota 2, With Staff of the master, His Q's Cooldown reduce and increased Charge speed. I think it fit well in HoN like Tundra with some improve/change

 

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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I still think his ultimate needs to be changed into something better. It can be easily avoided by most carries (since that''s who he's going to be focusing 99% of the time) by a pickup of geometers bane which almost all carries grab these days. A geometers bane can stop both his charge and his ultimate with ease. These easy counters on Rampage especially hurt when considering he's a single target hero and therefore if his abilities fail in a fight he's just a walking creep. At least before Rampage was able to actually disable the carry for a couple of seconds with his chains instead of them just leaping in the air for 1 second and given reaction time to counter his ultimate. His complete lack of mid-late game is also really noticeable when he has no ability to farm with zero aoe abilities and poor stats improvements as he levels. Even heroes that with similar roles like Deadwood are able to scale into the late game with this % strength damage on his ultimate that really make him relevant. I suggest instead of his flat E damage it could instead give flat damage and also scale off his own attack damage. This would nerf his early game which is a tad bit strong but also make him relevant in later stages of the game.

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On 8/18/2020 at 9:39 AM, ElementUser said:

The hero sacrificed Magic Immunity on charge for instant acceleration to max speed (before, it took a while before he could accelerate).

 

I can give him the trade again if that's what you want (basically making him accelerate slowly & granting him Magic Immunity only after a certain duration).

If I played Rampage I'd certainly take this trade, since the initial acceleration is often meaningless but the end-immunity is very, very important.

Also it's very annoying for Rampage to be completely nullified by Void Talisman. Void also nullifies heroes like Panda, but you can always count on Portal Key to help you land the first skill, after which Void might not matter anymore. Rampage charge is so telegraphed, and there is so much time to hit Void. Maybe do something about that.

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Quite frankly, it was really annoying to deal with the magic immune charge, especially early on. I think the charge should stay as is and instead just get stun / damage reduction similar Headress the longer you charge: that way, you keep it open to counter play while reducing the punishment Ramp takes for it.

I am all up for his old Ulti, thou. Bring back the heroes chains!

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5 hours ago, Imakuni said:

Quite frankly, it was really annoying to deal with the magic immune charge, especially early on. I think the charge should stay as is and instead just get stun / damage reduction similar Headress the longer you charge: that way, you keep it open to counter play while reducing the punishment Ramp takes for it.

I am all up for his old Ulti, thou. Bring back the heroes chains!

Disagree. The old ultimate is lacking of counter play when it come with pk + shurken head. Rampage himself have another 2 stun waiting when the chain exprire. The old ultimate may deal little damage but the total stun time combine is very high


HoN SEA Player

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4 minutes ago, w3_StarBoy said:

Disagree. The old ultimate is lacking of counter play when it come with pk + shurken head. Rampage himself have another 2 stun waiting when the chain exprire. The old ultimate may deal little damage but the total stun time combine is very high

I mean... it is a single target ultimate. And pk + sh is quite a big investment. It's like saying "nerf temp because pk + sh = gg".

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Posted (edited)

Temp is balance because it long cooldown and deal no damage against Shurken Head. Void Talisman counter Rampage, Sure. But when you active Void, Rampage cant target you with his ultimate. It's not consider of counter play, Rampage's ultimate is still off cooldown and waiting your vold exprire. Smiliar to Kane's Face off

And you can cancel tempest/succubus when they channeling, but rampage may just run away from from you

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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I just want old rampage back 😞 

I feel like this one isn't the same hero, with every ability changed.

The version I'm talking about is the rampage that can charge through nothing, but accelerates towards the target, with magic immunity until he reaches "bullet mode" where he's launched at the target and will hit it no matter what, but is also not magic immune in that moment. And the CD starts the moment you cast it, so you're encouraged to run across the map.

 

The w had an activate slow, and higher number.

The E stunned (such a hallmark of the hero, what is this hero I see now? )

And the glorious R that let you charge their carry, and drag it back to your friends for some "alone time"

 

Tried this version and just felt cheated.. now I ban him every game so I'm not reminded how my favorite hero in HoN is gone...

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Posted (edited)

So far, I will say that the old E was not okay. It gave Rampage 3 stuns (with E being a stun that has frequent availability on Rampage).

Edited by ElementUser

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9 hours ago, ElementUser said:

So far, I will say that the old E was not okay. It gave Rampage 3 stuns (with E being a stun that has frequent availability on Rampage).

yet panda is still a thing and remained untouched except for the staff 😄

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EU, i have said this before, but will you consider removing inherent stun on Q so rampage can have it on E back? There's no significant reason why it must be on Q as far as i'm aware, by changing Q's contact into an attack it can proc E stun immediately, then rampage will still only have 2 stuns.

We can change rampage's Q into granting 30/40/50/60% debuff/stun reduction for 3/3.5/4/4.5s when successfully charged or something like that, giving him a reason to consider maxing anything else other than E.

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17 hours ago, rezziedahl said:

EU, i have said this before, but will you consider removing inherent stun on Q so rampage can have it on E back? There's no significant reason why it must be on Q as far as i'm aware, by changing Q's contact into an attack it can proc E stun immediately, then rampage will still only have 2 stuns.

We can change rampage's Q into granting 30/40/50/60% debuff/stun reduction for 3/3.5/4/4.5s when successfully charged or something like that, giving him a reason to consider maxing anything else other than E.

Honestly this could be a really decent fix (moving the stun to E). Still gives him the over time anti-carry capabilities but without allowing him to line up and effectively store 5 seconds of uninteractable stun.


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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