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4.8.5 Patch Notes - Pre-Release Discussion


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I'm curious why you went with increased death cooldowns for towers missing in Midwars instead of just increasing the gold ticks for the conquering team.

It doesn't seem to do much on paper when you push T1 early and they just sit and turtle way far back.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

I'm curious why you went with increased death cooldowns for towers missing in Midwars instead of just increasing the gold ticks for the conquering team.

It doesn't seem to do much on paper when you push T1 early and they just sit and turtle way far back.

Any attempt on Mid Wars balancing is iterative and experimental. We can't do drastic or too many changes at once (as you already saw with how people reacted in the other thread to potential changes to the mode). 

 

We can potentially look into gold changes based on number of missing towers in the future. Death timers just have a tangible effect as the game goes on later, while adjusting gold can have too much of a snowballing effect throughout the game. The key here is to make the reward tangible enough while not snowballing the aggressive team too much as to give an unreasonable chance of the opposing team to come back, and finding that balance is an iterative practice & numbers can make or break the experience here. 

Edited by ElementUser
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1 minute ago, ElementUser said:

Any attempt on Mid Wars balancing is iterative and experimental. We can't do drastic or too many changes at once (as you already saw with how people reacted in the other thread to potential changes to the mode). 

 

We can look into gold changes based on number of missing towers later. Death timers just have a tangible effect as the game goes on later, while adjusting gold can have too much of a snowballing effect. The key here is to make the reward tangible enough while not snowballing the aggressive team too much as to give an unreasonable chance of the opposing team to come back, and finding that balance is an iterative practice. 

Fair enough.

I still think Qi got buffed the wrong way. I'll see how he feels with the scaling R again.

I definitely appreciate the BAT change on Shadowblade but I fear a lot of people won't understand the difference. Any reason why you didn't just tag an AS penalty instead?

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Oppa`Kiwi said:

Is the change for Dr for garena mainly?

It's for both regions. DR is considered to be too weak in NAEU because of his weak laning phase and his weird scaling and core needs, and also how he is played in NAEU (as a regular carry, not his unique gamer-carry hybrid style). 

 

In SEA, the hero can jungle (because of the old map, but also) because the Q cooldown is too low at low levels. The meta is also very different there as they run DR more like a ganker that has unparalleled ganking power early on, that also happens to have carry potential as a core. This is because of their active early to mid game ganking meta. 

 

The changes address both those issues while also making the hero more skilful to use, while also nerfing the damage potential from long travel distances of his ultimate. 

Edited by ElementUser
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

Fair enough.

I still think Qi got buffed the wrong way. I'll see how he feels with the scaling R again.

I definitely appreciate the BAT change on Shadowblade but I fear a lot of people won't understand the difference. Any reason why you didn't just tag an AS penalty instead?

Qi is a broken design mess (because his attack damage % premise is something that naturally applies to all heroes because of how the game mechanics work), and minor number tweaks are all we can do until the entire damage formula of his spell combinations are adjusted, or he gets reworked. 

 

BAT is something less noticeable in a tooltip while also having very real impacts in performance and feel, but not necessarily interpreted by the player in such a negative way (see Pebbles). It's also a harder limiter for offense than just flat negative AS. 

Edited by ElementUser
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6 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

Qi is a broken design mess (because his attack damage % premise is something that naturally applies to all heroes because of how the game mechanics work), and minor number tweaks are all we can do until the entire damage formula of his spell combinations are adjusted, or he gets reworked. 

 

BAT is something less noticeable in a tooltip while also having very real impacts in performance and feel, but not necessarily interpreted by the player in such a negative way (see Pebbles). It's also a harder limiter for offense than just flat negative AS. 

Word. I suppose that is fair, it kind of gets rolled into that idea of debuffs that don't feel like it. I'm curious to see how people notice it (if at all).

Couldn't Qi's damage formulas come from some mix of:

(Attack Damage - [Some % of] Base Damage) * Scaling Modifier?

I don't think it's an unsalvagable mess... unlike a couple of other heroes. 

Anyway thanks for the answers!

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Patch looks solid overall, can't wait to see the jungle changes in action. I think the jungle change is healthy for the game, since a lot of junglers rely a lot of on having a medium camp available (such as legio, war beast, kotf). I can't really tell if the safelane will be even more unplayable, when the medium pull-camp is made more accessible to the offlane, but time will tell.

I only have 2 negative comments off the top of my head:

- Seems like you butchered Hellbringer for no good reason. The change may in large part be influenced by garena map/casual mode. I don't think the hero is particularly strong in the EU/NA servers.

- Was hoping for a slight predator nerf, especially to the cooldown of stonehide. At level 4 stonehide, you gain 7 seconds of magic immunity with a 14 seconds cooldown. You don't need to put much thought or care into using stonehide at exactly the right time, unlike you have to do with shrunken head. Swiftblade for instance has 5 second spin uptime with a 18 second cooldown, meaning you actually have to use the spin carefully to not be caught by a stun or immobilize. I beleive the cooldown on Swiftblade's spin was increased from 14 to 18 seconds some time ago, after a long period of negative feedback.
Traditionally predator was countered by kiting him, but since the leap is now a 2 second restrain, its become much harder to escape predator, especially considering that he often gets full terror charges up on you during the restrain time. A low cooldown on stonehide cooldown was fine previously, since it was easy to escape predator once he leapt on you, and reset the fight until stonehide was down. In line with this, we should consider Predator's succes recently, sitting at 52%+ winrate every week the last few weeks, with a relatively large sample size of 2000+ games played each week.

TL;DR: Now that Predator's leap restrains, I think a few more seconds cooldown on stonehide is justified. For a start we can be conservative, and increase the cooldown from 14 to e.g. 16 seconds, although I beleive the hero would be fine with a cooldown of 18 seconds, just like swiftblade.   

 

 

Edited by gillesberg
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Agree with gillesberg about Pred- the restrain was actually a nice change but it does make him super hard to deal with now.   He's also really strong at fighting dual long lanes which are super popular at the moment.  I would say lower the duration of magic immunity or slightly decrease the amount of lifesteal he gets- maybe even remove the armor from stonehide. 

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Im super confused, wasnt already super easy to pull the camps-> advantage unsafe lane. And also wasnt the man up lanes dominating already the meta by destroying safe lanes. How does this change improves the CoL of the game in general? (more specifically the easy lane game experience ) .... So basically im supposed to ward as a safe lane support the camp now , coz else my lane will be messed up. So actually the new safe lane is the long lane? am i getting this right?

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53 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

Word. I suppose that is fair, it kind of gets rolled into that idea of debuffs that don't feel like it. I'm curious to see how people notice it (if at all).

Couldn't Qi's damage formulas come from some mix of:

(Attack Damage - [Some % of] Base Damage) * Scaling Modifier?

I don't think it's an unsalvagable mess... unlike a couple of other heroes. 

Anyway thanks for the answers!

Heroes scale with Attack Speed as well. Distinguishing between Base Damage & extra Attack Damage is also a tough numbers balancing act. Maybe @MacroHard can help if he agrees with changing the equations for Qi rather than reworking the hero? ?

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Tree change was much needed. I used to cut it all the time just for a more consistent pathing. Glad to see these changes, good job.

Edited by xFelicia
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, gillesberg said:

Patch looks solid overall, can't wait to see the jungle changes in action. I think the jungle change is healthy for the game, since a lot of junglers rely a lot of on having a medium camp available (such as legio, war beast, kotf). I can't really tell if the safelane will be even more unplayable, when the medium pull-camp is made more accessible to the offlane, but time will tell.

I only have 2 negative comments off the top of my head:

- Seems like you butchered Hellbringer for no good reason. The change may in large part be influenced by garena map/casual mode. I don't think the hero is particularly strong in the EU/NA servers.

- Was hoping for a slight predator nerf, especially to the cooldown of stonehide. At level 4 stonehide, you gain 7 seconds of magic immunity with a 14 seconds cooldown. You don't need to put much thought or care into using stonehide at exactly the right time, unlike you have to do with shrunken head. Swiftblade for instance has 5 second spin uptime with a 18 second cooldown, meaning you actually have to use the spin carefully to not be caught by a stun or immobilize. I beleive the cooldown on Swiftblade's spin was increased from 14 to 18 seconds some time ago, after a long period of negative feedback.
Traditionally predator was countered by kiting him, but since the leap is now a 2 second restrain, its become much harder to escape predator, especially considering that he often gets full terror charges up on you during the restrain time. A low cooldown on stonehide cooldown was fine previously, since it was easy to escape predator once he leapt on you, and reset the fight until stonehide was down. In line with this, we should consider Predator's succes recently, sitting at 52%+ winrate every week the last few weeks, with a relatively large sample size of 2000+ games played each week.

TL;DR: Now that Predator's leap restrains, I think a few more seconds cooldown on stonehide is justified. For a start we can be conservative, and increase the cooldown from 14 to e.g. 16 seconds, although I beleive the hero would be fine with a cooldown of 18 seconds, just like swiftblade.   

Hellbringer: not really, and it has 0 influence from SEA. The hero has been seeing 54-56% win rates consistently for the last few weeks in NAEU. He has been slowly receiving nerfs because some of his numbers were pushed until people actually started being successful with him. Now that they're successful, some of those numbers are just slowly being toned back. An 800 cast range is more appropriate for an ability like Hellbringer's E, and 5% less lifesteal on affected targets by the active isn't going to be some gamebreaking change for him.

Predator: Maybe for next patch. I was considering for this patch but Predator has always been considered a meme pick and has always been considered a pub-game pick for the longest time. Because of these factors & that he's not dominating games all that hard, I've made the decision to postpone his nerfs to the next patch long before you brought this point up.

 

EDIT: On second thought, I'll just add a really tiny change to Predator this patch to see if it causes any notable difference. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

1 hour ago, doctornik said:

Im super confused, wasnt already super easy to pull the camps-> advantage unsafe lane. And also wasnt the man up lanes dominating already the meta by destroying safe lanes. How does this change improves the CoL of the game in general? (more specifically the easy lane game experience ) .... So basically im supposed to ward as a safe lane support the camp now , coz else my lane will be messed up. So actually the new safe lane is the long lane? am i getting this right?

 

You have to look at the whole picture. It's as though players have forgotten what makes the safe lane the safe lane & what makes the unsafe lane the suicide lane.

 

In a nutshell, here are the features of a safe lane (Legion bottom/Hellbourne top):

  • Within immediate proximity of your ally jungle
    • Less chances of an enemy jungler coming to gank you (because junglers usually jungle in their own jungle)
    • Higher chances of an ally jungler (if available) to help you gank
  • Initial lane creep clash point is closer to your side of the map (assuming their paths are uninfluenced by other heroes and/or similar levels of influence by each lane), making it much easier to farm & control lane equilibrium
  • Pull camp is the easy camp (lower yields & rewards for doing so) & is way more risky for the opposing lane to contest unless they have a solid lead and/or lane pressure on you

 

 

In a nutshell, here are the features of an unsafe lane (Legion top/Hellbourne bottom, also known as the "suicide lane"):

  • Within immediate proximity of your enemy jungle
    • More dangerous & higher chances of getting ganked if your opponent is running a jungler
  • Initial lane creep clash point is closer to your opponent's side of the map (assuming their paths are uninfluenced by other heroes and/or similar levels of influence by each lane), making it much more dangerous to farm
  • Pull camp is the medium camp, which yields comparatively higher pull rewards. It's also harder for the opposing team to contest early on because of the tree layout.

 

Now that we've reviewed the pros & cons of these lanes, yeah sure you can ward the enemy pull as a safe lane hero. It means you'll get less offensive pressure & can be more prone to getting killed/resisted by the opposing suicide hero (if it is indeed a suicide hero). It also puts you at a gold disadvantage if you're up against a kill lane. The enemy suicide hero can get help/start with 1 counterward if they foresee this, by the way.

In any case, all these changes do is make the lanes not as different with the tree layout changes & the difference in pull camp rewards.

Edited by ElementUser
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not sure i agree with all those changes but the majority i dont mind or to some extend like even.
tho i do have to admit overall i feel slightly disappointed in the patchnotes as i was hoping to see a few other heroes adressed like Deadwood (not even referring to nerfs strictly but in general). a bit uncertain whether i like that mk staff addition as it potentially breaks him again...

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1 hour ago, ElementUser said:

You have to look at the whole picture. It's as though players have forgotten what makes the safe lane the safe lane & what makes the unsafe lane the suicide lane.

 

In a nutshell, here are the features of a safe lane (Legion bottom/Hellbourne top):

  • Within immediate proximity of your ally jungle
    • Less chances of an enemy jungler coming to gank you (because junglers usually jungle in their own jungle)
    • Higher chances of an ally jungler (if available) to help you gank
  • Initial lane creep clash point is closer to your side of the map (assuming their paths are uninfluenced by other heroes and/or similar levels of influence by each lane), making it much easier to farm & control lane equilibrium
  • Pull camp is the easy camp (lower yields & rewards for doing so) & is way more risky for the opposing lane to contest unless they have a solid lead and/or lane pressure on you

 

 

In a nutshell, here are the features of an unsafe lane (Legion top/Hellbourne bottom, also known as the "suicide lane"):

 

  • Within immediate proximity of your enemy jungle
    • More dangerous & higher chances of getting ganked if your opponent is running a jungler
  • Initial lane creep clash point is closer to your opponent's side of the map (assuming their paths are uninfluenced by other heroes and/or similar levels of influence by each lane), making it much more dangerous to farm
  • Pull camp is the medium camp, which yields comparatively higher pull rewards

 

Now that we've reviewed the pros & cons of these lanes, yeah sure you can ward the enemy pull as a safe lane hero. It means you'll get less offensive pressure & can be more prone to getting killed/resisted by the opposing suicide hero (if it is indeed a suicide hero). It also puts you at a gold disadvantage if you're up against a kill lane. The enemy suicide hero can get help/start with 1 counterward if they foresee this, by the way.

In any case, all these changes do is make the lanes not as different with the tree layout changes & the difference in pull camp rewards.

                 Well I cant say that i agree in the pros/cons sections about the junglers. the meta was 2-1-2. So junglers were underperforming in general. I cant remember a game i played and i didnt have a guy begging for our teammate to not pick jungle.
 So i never considered a jungler to be an advantage ever in any game I played. Maybe the only jungler that could gank early on and consider it as an advantage while playing on the short lane  was solstice, but he had to follow the unsafe rotation to do so( never played with many solstices that followed this rotation).

Also one of the most popular ganker -junglers, in the eyes of Parasite, got diminished from the game,or better, his ganking/ jungling role didnt work anymore like it used to be.  The distance of the hard camp to the lane was just not worth it , by just a simple scaling of the pros and cons of doing so. so we had parasite transition to hard farming jungler and from that we got the transition to its most popular built atm-> Mock. Maybe the only jungler i could see in my games and be happy about it was ophelia. But not so many players play her in our days.
My only suggestion on what could be the fairer in this , would have been that the perks of gold regarding pull camps, should have leaned torward the easy lane. So the medium camp and the easy camp could swap positions. 

=> But maybe the extra medium camp addition , could bring a bit of life again into junglers and indeed provide equilibrium between the laning systems.  If thats the case, i think i can digest the pull camps change in exchange for that ? .
Nevertheless after you analyzed your thought process behind this(and thank you for putting time to do so) , i can see your point of view also. I cant personally say 100% what is correct , as its not my job to do so rather your job . I can just provide arguments and opinions , just for discussion sake. Time will show, as it does everytime. And fortunatley forums will be still here to post our thoughts ?‍?. No rush ? .
 

Edited by doctornik
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@doctornikyou gotta keep in mind tho that alot of times jungle was simply unreliable due to the players occupying it.
it is underperforming unless you know exactly what to do, but it was still manageable.
The issue was more people jungling and not leaving it, not helping mid control the rune, not helping the support control the carries space.
Instead taking the stacked pullcamps that were not only the lanes backup safety option but to a proper support their only xp and gpm distributors.

plus poor item decisions on those junglers too.

so the issue in alot of cases , leading players to ask their fellow teammates to not jungle, was not only the jungle per se, not even for the majority of the reasoning, in fact it was more the unreliability of those calling it.
Because for some reason calling jungle automatically ment to those that called it "afk farming" even to the extend of occupying the carries space from a certain moment in the game forward. And the other half of those calling jungle, usually called it because "mid" and "short farm" were already called and they didnt want to support so usually next on the list is "jungle" directly followed by "suicide".

Which, if you remember, is a strat from YEEEEEEEEEEARS ago when map layout and hero and creep balancing was different, and people on HonTour used it for advantageous strategies that were trained and setup during training matches long time ebfore they pulled them in their tournaments matches...

 

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i see predator got nerf stone hide in 4.8.5 actually its good but i think predator need some buff about the base armor. its start so low in early game 

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Mah boy shadowblade is back!

I'll gladly take a ~15% damage nerf if it means I don't get "stuck" in gargantuan again, that movement speed was a killer for that form.

I have been attempting to use keeper's staff lately, and I felt the wards were lackluster compared to rushing resto since it's melee cast range, so anybody can see the eyes unless you're extra careful(unlike the old keeper eyes). Now that the cooldown is even longer, can we maybe get a buff to the range so I can hide the eyes? it IS 4200 gold spent after all

In general a lot of nice changes, engi, ew, nitro and the long forgotten tempest! 

Thanks

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11 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Heroes scale with Attack Speed as well. Distinguishing between Base Damage & extra Attack Damage is also a tough numbers balancing act. Maybe @MacroHard can help if he agrees with changing the equations for Qi rather than reworking the hero? ?

I would love to assist with balance analysis.  My consultation fee is 20 silver per minute.

You know my discord.

Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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16 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Hellbringer: not really, and it has 0 influence from SEA. The hero has been seeing 54-56% win rates consistently for the last few weeks in NAEU. He has been slowly receiving nerfs because some of his numbers were pushed until people actually started being successful with him. Now that they're successful, some of those numbers are just slowly being toned back. An 800 cast range is more appropriate for an ability like Hellbringer's E, and 5% less lifesteal on affected targets by the active isn't going to be some gamebreaking change for him.

Predator: Maybe for next patch. I was considering for this patch but Predator has always been considered a meme pick and has always been considered a pub-game pick for the longest time. Because of these factors & that he's not dominating games all that hard, I've made the decision to postpone his nerfs to the next patch long before you brought this point up.

 

EDIT: On second thought, I'll just add a really tiny change to Predator this patch to see if it causes any notable difference. Thanks for the suggestion.

Thank you very much for your reply! It is always nice when the developers take time to respond to the community. It's greatly appreciated Elementuser. You are correct about Predator only being a pub-hero for basically the entirity of hon's lifespan. I understand that you don't want to roll back the hero's success after just 1 patch. Maybe I was a bit too pessimistic in my argumentation before - I am actually happy that Predator restrains on leap, it fits the concept/lore of a 'predator' very well, and makes the hero viable in the meta.

Looking forward to see what the predator change is.

 

Edit, just saw the predator change as follows: 

Predator

Stone Hide
- Cooldown increased from 14 seconds to 16 seconds.
- Duration reduced from 4/5/6/7 seconds to 3.75/4.5/5.25/6 seconds.

I think this change is perfect, and I couldn't ask for more. I think this will have big impact, while still keeping predator in a strong spot. So happy 

 

Edited by gillesberg
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4 hours ago, MerryHONmas said:

@doctornikyou gotta keep in mind tho that alot of times jungle was simply unreliable due to the players occupying it.
it is underperforming unless you know exactly what to do, but it was still manageable.
The issue was more people jungling and not leaving it, not helping mid control the rune, not helping the support control the carries space.
Instead taking the stacked pullcamps that were not only the lanes backup safety option but to a proper support their only xp and gpm distributors.

plus poor item decisions on those junglers too.

so the issue in alot of cases , leading players to ask their fellow teammates to not jungle, was not only the jungle per se, not even for the majority of the reasoning, in fact it was more the unreliability of those calling it.
Because for some reason calling jungle automatically ment to those that called it "afk farming" even to the extend of occupying the carries space from a certain moment in the game forward. And the other half of those calling jungle, usually called it because "mid" and "short farm" were already called and they didnt want to support so usually next on the list is "jungle" directly followed by "suicide".

Which, if you remember, is a strat from YEEEEEEEEEEARS ago when map layout and hero and creep balancing was different, and people on HonTour used it for advantageous strategies that were trained and setup during training matches long time ebfore they pulled them in their tournaments matches...

 

I agree with what you wrote. But thats just an extra reason why jungle was not viable in the meta. I never said that the reason i wrote was the only reason. What u wrote is also true.

I dont think ur reason is higher in rank regarding my reason.i believe both have equal importance.  As in high tmm what i always see are jungle farmers , even by good players still playing,rather jungle gankers. So even good players do not work in favor of their short lane. Meaning the jungle meta change is not only on players individually but design aspect also. Hence the 2-1-2 laning system has many things ( lots more than the ones we discussed)that surrounds its dominance and superiority against jungle strats.

 On the other hand  the  answer  i wrote basically was that i dont think jungle should have been considered in the pros torwards the safe lane(As EU explained to me at his reply ) and that it was always a disadvantage in the current meta for various reasons. (in some unique cases maybe it worked positivley ofc,but that was the minority of the cases)

I didnt try to analyze the jungle meta, coz that would take lots of lines to explain every little detail that made jungle a bad choice.

 

Edited by doctornik
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Regarding the rest of the patch notes:
-Thumbs up for the avatar ( feels good to offer something like this)
- Thumbs up for the new items.( in paper look nice)

- Mk staff: Maybe it could be a nice change. And maybe we could see more pickups of Staff on him/ upgrades
- Tundra staff: That seems fun , we will see.Tundras core items though will never change due to the unique role of this hero. So i cant tell without giving it some time.
-  Hag : That was indeed my suggestion before the nerf, to go from 40s to 60s. 70 seemed to much, and made other items more worth to get than staff. I believe this change can balance out everything.

- Ra: I dont know about the spells nerf. In my opinion the agility nerf could be enough.(he already got a nerf last time)
- Doctor repulsor: Interesting changes. They need time to see how they pun out, but attractive on paper.
- Electrician: It took some time but it happened ?, agree with the nerfs.
- Emerald W: agree with the nerfs
- Engi: Best balance change in this patch imo ? 

- Gaunlet: I like the slight buff on the hook range. Still though i want the hero to become the skill cap hero it used to be, and not the everyone can play hero. Having the ability to hook someone as easy as gaunlet can,+ level 6 kill potential the hero has, must weights some risks . Gaunlet used to have a skill cap in order to be able to hook someone torwards you. Gaunlet tool kit is quite the bursty one. Imagine putting Devo the ability to hook through creeps. Thats what Gaunlet is atm.  A constant thread of killing you without actually having to use any kind of skill. True Gaunlet became more viable to more players atm, but lost his uniqueness. In order to be able to play such a strong mid laner like Gaunlet you need to be able to have some kind of skill. That was the fun part of HoN, rewarding players putting effort to learn a hero. (  if you attained a certain skill to play the hero at his best, you will get the maximum damage input out of him )

- Grinex: I love the buffs, hero need some kind of love again.
- Legionnaire: nice addition. minor one, but still a good one.
- Lodestone: mana addition is a nice touch. And the slight nerf of cd. Hero needed a slight nerf.
- Madman: nice tweeks, were due to happen. Hero was slightly overperforming.


- Tempest: At last some love for this hero. Its been long. The top hero regarding big plays throughout HoNs history needed to have a place in the game.I hope this patch changes can revive him! 
 

 

A sum up is that this patch isnt so big, but is quite interesting to be fair. Some of the changes can bring interest and can spice up things. In general good job and a thank you for the time putting into this game, and trying to keep it alive ✌️ .

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I keep seeing people talk about how high skill cap Gauntlet used to be before they added a helper button on E.

Honestly I don't buy it, there was very rarely any skill between clicking near your feet and hitting E. The only major difference was that a tiny angle off from clicking near your feet could cause it to fly wildly. All this does is stabilize the skill floor but does nothing to change the ceiling.

Gauntlet is still high skill and flexible. People who only use him to hook like Devourer are missing a huge amount of potential. Between unreactable reverse grapples to trying to aim the Ultimate to stasis the maximum amount of enemies while optimizing damage... He already has a lot on his plate. This doesn't even take into account the wack things you can do with Help/Harm areas such as Nymph Pod midfight.

I know that comes off as a rant but every time there is a Gauntlet change this has happened.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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