Jump to content

Welcome to the Heroes of Newerth forums

The forums have received a complete makeover. Click the button below to read more about it.
Read more
MerryHONmas

Bombadeer's [Q] Sticky Bomb early detonation radius

Recommended Posts

So ever since Bombadeer's [Q] Sticky Bomb had it's sticky are buffed yeeeears ago (forgot what that is called xD), the ability has become almost impossible to miss.
Thing is, that even if you miss it, it's detonation radius will 90% always catch your opponent if triggered instantly. Unless ofcourse you miss by a mile but then it doesn't even matter.

Is there a way for this ability to have it's detonation radius adjusted and tied to it's lifetime? Similar to how damage increases the longer the gadget is active?
To be more precise, lower the radius so it won't nuke as much of an area when instantly procced so it actually becomes a skillshot again, OR lower it's detonation radius according to how far the ability is leveled. because the initial damage in 1v1 or even 2v1 lineups is still significant, paired with the ministun and the comparably low cd.
 

it makes sidestepping only half as rewarding if instantly triggering it still deals the damage even after it being missed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I agree, if sticky bomb isn't on a hero, then it deals 50% dmg or something that's fair...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I would prefer if the damage scaled with time again, but that depends on what the aim of bomb should be. I would prefer if he didnt remain as a burst hero like most of the mid gankers in the hero pool, but he would have to be compensated in another way (just a tad bit though)

Edited by Bersk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it still scales with time as i mentioned in my initial post lol... you completely missed my point bersk xD

12 minutes ago, Bersk said:

I would prefer if the damage scaled with time again, but that depends on what the aim of bomb should be. I would prefer if he didnt remain as a burst hero like most of the mid gankers in the hero pool, but he would have to be compensated in another way (just a tad bit though)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well magic armor and some hp resolve that issue ~
but allowing a bomb to get pk and then complaining about the stun duration is like allowing pyro to farm a pk and then complain that he can just nuke you dead with 1200 magic damage... it's the pk, not the ability per se.
in my oppinion at least, might be wrong.
but the bomb still dealing damage to you even if you dodged it is like ... so unrewarding simply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

if he lands a bomb on u  legit have to just run back to the base or probably die, it just lasts too long.

 

you also say its a skill shot which is true, but it's a relatively easy skill shot to land

Edited by magicgirlj

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, MerryHONmas said:

it still scales with time as i mentioned in my initial post lol... you completely missed my point bersk xD

 

No, sadly it doesn't. That's why I was writing about that, since even if you evade it, they can still manually trigger it for full damage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For my own curiosity do we have a patch log for Bomb changes? I want to make sure I have the right information before weighing in with something. 


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here, from newest up to the one-that-should-not-be-remembered version of 4.0

 

Bombardier

Sticky Bomb
- Magic Damage increased from 75/150/225/300 to 100/180/260/340.

_______________________________________________

Bombardment
- Magic Damage per wave increased from 20/30/40/50 to 25/35/45/55.
*Total Magic Damage increased from 80/120/160/200 to 100/140/180/220.

_______________________________________________

Bombardment
- Magic Damage per wave lowered from 30/40/50/60 to 20/30/40/50.
*Total Magic Damage lowered from 120/160/200/240 to 80/120/160/200.
- No longer deals reduced damage to enemy structures.
- Tapering Movement Speed slow increased from 40/50/60/70% to 70% at all levels.

Boom Dust
- Now deals 75% of its damage against non-hero units.

_____________________

Bombardier

Sticky Bomb
- Magic Damage decreased from 100/180/260/340 to 75/150/225/300.
_________________________________________________

Bombardment
- Number of waves of damage reduced from 5 to 4.
* Total amount of damage reduced from 150/200/250/300 to 120/160/200/240.
___________________________________________________________________________

Sticky Bomb
- Magic Damage decreased from {100/200/300/400 to 100/180/260/340}.
 
Boom Dust
- Magic Damage per instance of Boom Dust decreased from {15/30/45/60 to 15/25/35/45}.
_____________________________________________________________________________

- Movement Speed increased from {295 to 300}.
- Magic Armor increased from {5.5 to 6}. 
 
Sticky Bomb
- Can now be double-activated to cast Sticky Bomb on yourself.
- Cast range increased from {625/675/725/775 to 800 at all levels}.
- Damage increased from {75/150/225/300 to 100/200/300/400}.
- Duration until max prime lowered from {8 to 6 seconds}.
*This means the max number of extra Magic Damage & stun duration has been decreased from {4 to 3}.
- No longer increases the damage of Sticky Bomb as the Sticky Bomb ticks.
- Extra Stun Duration per tick increased from {0.5 seconds to 1 second} (max of a {3 second Stun}).
- If you activate before the first 2 seconds, it now mini-stuns for 0.2 seconds.
- Bombardier can now activate the detonation subability while Stunned or Silenced. 

Bombardment
- No longer has a second charge at level 4 of the skill.
*Now has a 12 second cooldown instead.
- Magic Damage per wave increased from {20/30/40/50 to 30/40/50/60}.
*Total Magic Damage increased from {100/150/200/250 to 150/200/250/300}.
- Radius increased from {250 to 300}.
- Increased damage to buildings from {33% to 50%}.
 
Boom Dust (Reworked)
- Passively causes Bombardier to deal {15/30/45/60 Magic Damage} in a 250 radius around an enemy unit when Bombardier autoattacks an enemy unit.
*Boom Dust also damages & applies on a single target when Bombardier damages that target in another manner.
- Can only occur four times on a single target every 15 seconds.
 
Air Strike 
- Cast range decreased from Global to 1200.
- Cooldown reduced from {140/120/100 seconds to 120/100/80 seconds}.
- Staff of the Master: In addition to the previous effects, now also increases cast range to Global.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

- Cast range increased from {625/675/725/775 to 800 at all levels}.

This here is the offender I think. I knew something was up.

If we trace it back, the damage has gone up and down and up and down, but if it has been problematic it looks like the range is the major contributing factor. By reducing the range to a scaling amount it actually addresses most of OP's concerns. 

  1. It becomes more telegraphed as the enemy Bomb needs to run closer to utilize it.
  2. It becomes a harder to use area denial move.
  3. It requires people to make choices early on about which of Bomb's 3 skills to level and take reward on.

The quick detonation AoE could be a problem, it could be fixed with an area nerf but that just reduces its use when it comes to self bombing, or using it on creep waves. Reducing the AoE honestly removes lines of play and isn't really something I would advocate for. Reducing the range (scaling it to something like 500 / 600 / 700 / 800) would leave those lines of play but instead increase early counterplay and increase risk for Bomb.

Quote

- If you activate before the first 2 seconds, it now mini-stuns for 0.2 seconds.

Quick Detonation already punishes you for the stun penalty, punishing the AoE as well feels a little too harsh. I also like the choice on Bomb to quick throw for a fast stun (albeit a small one) or to build it up.

This is why I think nerfing the Range and not the AoE is the better solution. Removing lines of play just dilutes the hero and the game I think, and Bomb has interesting (if subtle) choices.


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Bombardier is fine performance-wise (actually a little underperforming) & a nerf wouldn't do him much good without compensation.

 

In any case, I would say it's too late for this patch to do changes to him, as this seems like it's not a straightforward nerf & buff problem. Need time to think about the right solution & not just nerf a frustration just because (because honestly, this frustration is nothing compared to what old Nitro & prenerfed Qi/Adrenaline/Shadowblade did).

 

I would say that Bombardier has a design problem because he's just a pure nuker with a certain type of flavour. He's still a super generic hero at his core - and this is a reason why we can't just buff/nerf him to "fix" his problems.

Edited by ElementUser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Bombardier is fine performance-wise (actually a little underperforming) & a nerf wouldn't do him much good without compensation.

 

In any case, I would say it's too late for this patch to do changes to him, as this seems like it's not a straightforward nerf & buff problem. Need time to think about the right solution & not just nerf a frustration just because (because honestly, this frustration is nothing compared to what old Nitro & prenerfed Qi/Adrenaline/Shadowblade did).

 

I would say that Bombardier has a design problem because he's just a pure nuker with a certain type of flavour. He's still a super generic hero at his core - and this is a reason why we can't just buff/nerf him to "fix" his problems.

I see your points and I don't think he is remotely OP.
It is actually simply "easy" to beat him if you know how to counter him.
It's really just that actually sidestepping the bomb is simply unrewarding and frustrating since the damage is full and you WILL usually still get caught in the detonation when instnatly triggered.

May I make a suggestion:
Set the ability cast radius from 800 to 700 (it still outranges every single heroes attackrange especially early game, tbh I am not even sure why it is such a long range combined with his fairly huge sticky radius that was also buffed too).
Reduce the radius of the detonation by 50 units to combat the frustration factor even after succesfully sidestepping the ability.
Change the damage to scale with the bombs duration similar to how Valk's arrow deals more damage the farther the projextile has travelled.
Increase the max damage amount and decrease the min damage amount from it's current flat damage amount to promote both: properly aiming the ability as bomb and sidestepping the ability as opponent.
Allow his Bombardement to damage structures again (why that was removed I will never understand)
-OR-
Allow Bombardement to trigger the Sticky Bomb.
For example have the Bomb build up to it's detonation via stacks, every second applies 10 stacks and 30 stacks are required for full damage and stun duration.
Every succesful hit by one of Bombardements waves increases Sticky Bombs charges by 3/4/5/6 each, meaning at level 4 of the ability it could drastically decrease the amount of time required for the Bomb to deal full damage and stun duration. Which would simultaneously make the ability more rewarding and less of a rarely used tool but also actually add a tiny little bit of rewarding overall skill ceiling to the hero.
(Which also serves as a buff!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...