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Posts posted by Lunarios

  1. 8 hours ago, Ladonien said:

    You usually if you have good farm with lets say a Wildsoul you can get it sub 6-minutes, but usually early in the 6-minute mark. But I still think you guys are just thinking about the item as a gold item but should rather think about it as an EXP item, since there are no other item besides Tome of Elements that increases exp by its effect. I am not sure about if the 1750 gold at 4 mins would be possible for a Wildsoul for example as you get around 1200 gold around the 4 min mark getting the buildup item for it. Another buff could be to revert it to its old form where it required 2x Gloves of the swift. But I guess that it was nerfed to being the 1200 gold over those gloves for a reason. 

    Usually when I'm short farm against a solo offlaner I get it around the 4:50-5:20 mark as a first item to maximize the benefit from the gold timer.

    I'm looking at it as a gold item because as it currently stands, even in its current form, it provides me enough gold benefit to go out all the way to purchase it for 1950 gold, along with the pause-on-death timer. The EXP is rather redundant for me, as most of the time as a Support I would not have enough gold to buy it anyway, and if I do have the gold I'd rather have a PK / Stormspirit.

    The EXP is not very important for me personally, as an extra level or two as a short-farm carry would make little difference to me, but a steady income of Gold (even if it is low) is vital, especially if it means I can skip Hypercrown or Cleaver.

    I just can't see it as an efficient EXP item, as at the best case scenario you would transmute a Vagabond Leader which grants 130 EXP. 130 x 1.75 = 227.5. 227.5 - 130 = 97.5. 97.5 Extra experience points equals to 1.5 lane creeps. The distance that you would have to travel to get that Vagabond Leader would equal to or more 1.5 lane creeps' worth of EXP. Whilst an efficient use of Tome of Elements could grant you 1000 Experience points, 1000 experience points for 200 gold, or 975 experience over 20 minutes (if you do not die) that costs 1950 gold? (That is also considering you could find 10 available Vagabonds, as any other neutral would provide even less EXP benefit)

    Just for clarification the maximum average amount of gold attainable in the short lane at the 4-minute mark is 1645 gold. If you manage to kill 2-3 extra neutrals without missing last-hits, or get an enemy hero kill, it would be attainable at that point. I don't know about Wildsoul in the Jungle and the dynamics there, as I never play Wildsoul, so I'm strictly speaking from a short-lane carry against a solo offlaner.

  2. On 4/16/2021 at 8:57 PM, Nbidjr said:

    Nerf convert creep gold to 165 but price item still 1900. Need adjust for that. Some buff covert gold or nerf the price of item

    I didn't think of that, but to be honest it sounds like a really good idea. If the gold gained on usage remains 165, however the price is lowered to let's say 1650 gold (from 1950), then you can optimally get it at the 4-minute mark and pay back the item cost at the 24-minute mark (ideally if nothing goes wrong along the way i.e. dying thus pausing the timer)

    At the moment it stands at minimum acquisition under normal circumstances at the 5-minute mark and item payback timing of 29 minutes in-game time.

    Perhaps boosting the gold per use to 175 and lowering the item price to 1750, or even 170 and 1800, to prevent too early acquisition of the item by many heroes? 


    (I'm being conservative with the numbers since this item has many uses besides gold-gain, so boosting it too much would create a situation where it would be picked by too many players { A little similar to what has been with Elder Parasite; being slightly numerically buffed by a few Attack Speed and Attack Damage points - thereafter it was picked up by almost everyone}. Since this item is used as a counter to some enemy heroes, sees use with support heroes / offlaners, it doesn't need a big buff imo - it needs a minor buff, but that minor buff is very important in my eyes.)

  3. I'm strongly against this argument. The whole purpose of an alt. avatar is to personalize your experience and to show off your cool new avatar. 

    Next thing is for everyone on the street to wear the same clothes so no one will get confused.

    MOBA games have a steep learning curve, and recognizing alt avatars is one of the elements - just as memorizing timings, abilities, ranges, etc. 

    This isn't even that steep compared to some other games - try learning Starcraft 2 from scratch for instance.

  4. Just a little note regarding Cthuluphant - I read in the forums regarding a "bug" that relates to Cthulu Ulti not activating correctly through fog, which was said to be fixed internally.

    That combined with an increased radius of 2000 from 900 basically means that with a SotM + Barbed, you have a 2000 radius legionnaire taunt that goes through fog, that is very likely to hit all the enemy team.

    As much as I would like it to happen because I'm probably gonna do that every second game, my conscience tells me that I should at least write about it to point it out before it does come out.

    (I suppose this wasn't a very popular topic before because of the low range + lack of activation through fog, but this is going to be pretty nuts) 

  5. Is it possible to raise a little bit the gold granted by Alchemist Bones from 165 to 180 or 190?

    Let me explain - When I play carry heroes, I tend to go for single-target carries that don't have a farm mechanic, and I tend to not pick a farming item such as a hypercrown/cleaver. I mostly rely on Alchemist Bones as a back-up plan / or simply as a minor boost to my GPM. I find it more useful in longer games, but since the average gamespan of HoN games is roughly 30 minutes (which is around the time it takes for Alchemist Bones to pay back its cost), in many cases it provides no benefit.

    The thing is that it's hard enough as it is to farm in a single-target manner, and when you do use Alchemist Bones the price of the creep is deducted from the gold addition; basically what it means is that you get +165 gold, and minus the gold you could have had, had you killed the said creep. In the best case scenario of the smallest snotter you lose roughly 10 gold, worst case scenario you target a Vagabond Leader and lose out on ~70 gold.

    Before the patch the Alchemist Bones (in my opinion) were nerfed into providing a flat 165 instead of x3 the creeps' value, which allowed the user to target smaller creeps rather than larger ones for gold gain, but overall lowered the potential gold that it is possible to attain from this item.

    Overall, I think it has been nerfed a little tiny bit too much, and adding an extra 15-25 gold to its effect would do more good than bad.

  6. I think it mostly depends on the hero and the preferred playstyle. With some heroes I like striders, some heroes I like ghost marchers, and some I like steamboots. Usually, the heroes that I pick striders have some sort of innate gap-closing ability + the heroes are required to move a large distance in a short amount of time on a regular basis (Deadwood offlane with his tree-walk, Fayde offlane with her invisibility, sometimes I even pick striders on Night Hound for a quick gank and return to off-lane for exp/gold). If I pick steamboots, either the hero has a teleportation ability, or I'm probably going to buy a Portal Key on that hero - as it's really difficult to close gaps with steamboots. Ghost Marchers is my preferred choice for heavy gankers and heroes that benefit greatly from a quick initiation from the fog - as in, they do not need the bonus speed to travel to the target location as in with striders, but they need the extra movement speed from the moment they are seen until primary contact with the enemy / or a few extra seconds of chase speed advantage after contact (Ghost Marchers being 3 seconds is just about the right amount of time for the speed boost) (Solstice, Rampage, Adrenaline, Rally)

  7. I did see quite a few times the lack of scaling towards the later stages of the game of Magmus' damage. 

    Heroes in the late-game tend to have high magic reduction, magic immunity, increases mobility and/or high if not very high health pools. This poses a lot of problems for heroes that are considered very good at the early/mid game (i.e. Blitz), but they turn into the polar opposite as the game transitions to the end-game. 

    I saw it mitigated in a way by adding a utility stat into the scaling damage of an ability boosted by SotM (Take as an example Blitz SotM effect adding a flat decrease to enemy attack speed, which almost acts as a Spiked Bola to autoattack-based heroes)

    I think there is a problem in increasing flat damage too much, as there are techniques in attaining early SotM boosts, and gaining such high numbers in the wrong game stage could be detrimental to the game health.

    I think - maybe it would be possible to simply add a utility stat to help the skill scale better into the late-game?

    Some examples of possible utility stats:

    - Enemies affected by Eruption take an additional 5/10/15% damage from all sources.

    - Enemies affected by Eruption take 10 damage per second over 6/8/10 seconds.

    - Enemies affected by Eruption are also "Scorched". While Scorched, health regeneration applies at a negative value.


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  8. I love the Cthuluphant change, it allows the hero to Jungle as well (for those who like it), while strengthening his identity as a Tank that handles punishment very well.

    The Adrenaline change feels on point, giving him stronger 1v1 laning presence, more reliable late-game magic DPS, and more comfortable farming ability; all while trading for his ability to engage successfully and dominantly against multiple opponents. This in turn increases Adrenaline's dependency on items, and helps define his role as more of an Initiator/Semi-Carry.

    I saw a discussion regarding Circe's mana issues, while I have to disagree with the points raised in the discussion saying that Circe has mana issues. Circe's mana issues are quite easily solved by purchasing Chalice and Manatube (early preparation towards a Stormspirit), or perhaps even Ioyn Stone while being active with guarding runes. I believe that with proper gold management and accurate last-hits, as well as utilization of the Pull camps for self-gain, Circe's issues will dissipate.

    Pandamonium QoL changes are very appreciated.

    Kraken's Ultimate restrain is a very welcome change.

    Plague Rider Extinguish cooldown reduction buffs his Offlane presence, while the cooldown reduction on his Ultimate allows him to be more active in teamfights.

    Rampage buff is very well felt, allowing him to have greater impact in the right hands with the right items.

    A very interesting take on Shadowblade's E form, perhaps even artistic in nature. Turning a mechanic into an entity of its own, by increasing the mana cost of a double usage of the INT form; basically allowing a double-stun with extra magical damage at a greater mana cost. In addition, a welcome buff to Shadowblade's STR form.

    I personally like the positive armor value reductions on auras, as it increases the value of armor and weakens heavy push strategies - strategies which have a tendency to be heavily one-sided in their outcome.

    I am rather uncertain about the price tag on the Sacrificial Stone, but perhaps the price tag was too low beforehand. 

    The restrain on FWS activation is a much needed buff to a less picked item.

    The +30% spell damage on grimoire activation feels somewhat...less likely to be effective, to me, personally. As in my view - the item will be picked in the more later stages of a game, and at that point, damage is abundant - while cooldown is the more limiting factor. Perhaps, if it were possible at a later time, to change the +30% spell damage into something such as "Activate to instantly reduce all ABILITY cooldowns by 30%" in addition to the passive 20% global cooldown reduction (in a multiplicative manner which totals 44% reduction together) with a, let's say, 240 second cooldown (192 after passive) (The activation portion allows a more controlled cooldown reduction component, limiting the options for the item to spiral out of control with certain abilities); the item would have a more defined role with a very strong incentive to be picked with certain heroes in certain builds.

    Orb of Zamos, Grave Locket and Ultor's Heavy Helm - very welcome buffs.

    Those are my opinions regarding this patch; a patch which, to me, is very well-thought of and cleanly done.




    As an additional note, I feel there is much room for minor fixes and changes towards existing content that could greatly smoothen and improve the overall Heroes of Newerth experience; so patches like this that focus on current content are really good.

  9. I remember my first game in Heroes of Newerth. My friend told me "Hey man listen there's this cool new game that came out and I have a beta key for you". I was like - ok let's give it a shot; so I chose Deadwood - and got completely owned. But you know what? I didn't really care. I didn't care because I could walk through the god damn trees. I was a giant undead tree, walking through trees - and that was my first experience in HoN, and the reason I kept coming back ever since.

    Most of the time we don't think about it, but we should stop from time to time to appreciate the beauty that is in front of us. A game that was created, that no other game could evoke the same sensation this game does - that's why we're here today; that's why you are here in this forum, even if you are just passing by. 

    The amount of talent, the artistic freedom and skill, the work put by many professionals over the years. The map art, hero art, voice and sound design, alternative avatar art - We have a Samuel Jackson and Miku Announcers - no other MOBA in the industry even compares to that! The diversity. Whether you like it or not - the game includes one of the most diverse communities there are, accounting for many different nationalities - almost as many as there are heroes and avatars.

    The community has its many flaws, I will be direct. The experience for a newcomer or an old-timer alike might be good, and it might be extremely harsh. People that don't want to pass CC vote, people that want to pass too early, Trash-talking, griefing, etc. But you know what? Those people keep going. They never stop. If there's something special about HoN players - it's their inhuman ability to never give up on their goals (whether the goal is to win or to trash-talk). In fact, I'm pretty confident that many players won't pass the CC vote even if the KGB was ripping out their toenails real-time. I'll even take it one step further and say if there was ever an alien invasion unto Earth I'd trust my life in no one else but HoN players; I'm entirely confident they would beat the aliens even while griefing each other.

    That's what I choose to talk about today. The beauty and the ugly. The reason we're all still here. I fully believe that money is not the most important thing in this world - there may be games with huge tournaments and huge prize pools, huge production budgets, etc. But there won't be a game like this ever again, no matter how much money is poured into making one. It's impossible to re-create a timeless relic. 

    So, please - make the best of every moment, because I'm sure - you will look back and remember these moments, and hopefully cherish them. 

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  10. Just a small thing regarding Klanx - making his Lackey apply splash damage (even as slight as 33% out of 15/30/45/60) will make him push the lane when trying to last-hit creeps during the laning phase if he has this skill leveled. Since this skill is used for both enemy harass and QoL last-hit improvement, making it apply splash damage is actually a nerf to the hero as it limits the strategies available to him during the laning phase.

    I think an easy fix to this would be to make this skill toggle-able (like Legionnaire's Spin), giving the player control of when to push the lane and when to hold the lane at a static position. (Other examples of such behaviours include Moon Queen's Multi-Strike toggle, Zehpyr's ability to consume his cyclones thus holding the lane equilibrium, Lord Salforis' Dark Lord's Presence toggle, Maliken W switching between high/low autoattack DPS modes, etc.)

  11. I personally don't see the weakness of the item that much, as to me the item is very strong as it is, but maybe its just because of my specific playstyle that benefits greatly from this item. I wouldn't be against changing it to % of enemies armor as it would be very useful late-game as well, and not mainly mid-game.

  12. It's a very specific item, much like Grimoire of Power, Madfred's Brass Knuckles, Twin Blades, Lex Talionis. 

    Some items are picked up on a regular basis such as Boots, Cleaver, Dawnbringer, etc. and some items have a more reserved place in the hero pool, I'm sure that there are a few more heroes except those 2 that the item works well on, but that's the way it is - not every item should be picked up by everyone and that's ok

  13. Just a minor correction, it's 4600 gold and provides -8 armor for that amount, along with the +55 damage that should not be forgotten.

    The item is not meant to be picked up by main hard-carries (aside from some exceptions such as Silhouette, etc); but rather meant to serve as a mid-tier item, and it definitely has its place, and very important one in the game (at least when it comes to my particular playstyle). 

    I usually play off-lane role as Scout or Grinex and I don't remember a game where I haven't picked up that item. By far I have experimented and tried many items, in ranked play and in practice mode, and I found Shieldbreaker to have the highest spike DPS out of all the items in the shop for its price range.

    Sure, many other items are better (on a hard-carry), but as an off-lane hero with 300-400 gpm at best during a match, I can't really be too picky about the items I buy. I don't have the luxury to buy high-tier items, and I have to settle for low-mid tier items; and let me tell you that - Shieldbreaker is at the top of the list when it comes for what items should I buy.

    It also should be noted that not many heroes are able to reach 15-20+ armor during a game, from what I've seen in this chat you are mostly looking at hard-carries, but most supports/semi-carries/gankers won't reach those armor values and are vulnerable to Shieldbreaker, and in conjunction with Lex Talionis it can get crazy.

  14. What you have described above - I tried to re-create exactly that in practice mode and it didn't work.

    I looked at the replay and it was specifically Fayde using her E, pause, parasite clicks his ultimate on Fayde while she is affected by her Immunity state, parasite ultimate triggers.

    For further clarification - her E does successfully disjoints parasite ultimate while parasite's ultimate is in progress if she uses her E after parasite has started his ultimate.



    I have had another game with Fayde, and had a strange and inconsistent experience with her E against a Voodoo Jester.

    On one instance, I was able to completely disjoint Voodoo Jester's stun while it was mid-air, on another instance when I used E against voodoo jester's stun while it was mid-air - it stunned me. It is very strange, I am unable to re-create this scenario in practice mode, and it only seems to occur in some of the cases while in an active matchmaking game and not all of the time.

  15. On the few heroes with the ability "Single Target Immunity" (Fayde E, Grinex Ultimate with SotM), there seems to be a few cases where the Single Target Immunity seems to not work against some single target spells, or you are able to bypass the Single Target Immunity to issue an attack command to the unit.

    To sum it up shortly - 

    Grinex - when buffed by SotM and using his ultimate, he gains the "Single Target Immunity" while on the shadow trail. You are not able to right click him, but surprisingly, despite having Single Target Immunity - you are able to A-command-click him to attack him.

    Fayde - In some strange instances, Parasite Ultimate or Deadwood Ultimate are able to bypass Fayde's Single Target Immunity completely as if she had not had it. In one game, an enemy Parasite was able to target me with his Ultimate AFTER I had used my E, and was able to steal the state unto himself. I have tried replicating the scenario in Practice Mode, but it doesn't seem to work. (Match ID: 161107498, Time according to Replay Timer: 18:35-18:42; Parasite Stealing Fayde's E using his Ultimate). I do not have a match replay for Deadwood Ultimate, but rest assured that I have also experienced that - I don't know what causes it, or if there are more single target spells that can bypass Single Target Immunity, but it's very strange.


  16. This has happened to me a few times in the last week, and is creating a major issue for me. Once in a few games, I'm forcefully disconnected from the game - and I'm unable to return to the game no matter what I do. Close/re-open HoN client, ctrl+f8 console with reconnect command - no response from server, and a few other methods that I've tried which were all unsuccessful. 

    I don't understand what's the cause for this, but while this is happening my internet is working just fine; and its rather inconvenient that I lose 10 MMR + banned from matchmaking for 24 hours due to something I have no control over.

  17. I don't know but, to me personally, Blitz is just fine as he is right now. The only thing that needs to be addressed at him, if at all, is his W.

    I really like combo heroes (like Flux+Engi, Tempest+Flux, etc.) and this puts Blitz in a self-combo category - which I tend to like. So all those Charge generations or intricated and complicated mechanics don't really resonate with me personally very well, so I have to disagree on that aspect.

    I absolutely adore the whole aspect of Blitz, with his lightning fast spellcasting abilities - E R Q and the enemy is lost as to what's happening. The only thing that doesn't sit well with him in my opinion is his W, which is rather DoT and slow-acting spell, and in conjunction with his lightning fast abilities - doesn't resonate very well. However, it's a very amazing utility in the laning phase against a Scout or a Night Hound as a Support in short lane, I must say.

    I'm not trying to discourage anything, I just feel obliged to state my opinion regarding Blitz specifically.

  18. I play on EU server, and I've met the same problem you are describing. I'm a really dedicated player, and I am not kidding when I say this - I once waited 6 hours in a queue for a game. It threw me off queue every 30 minutes due to a timeout of the queue, so I kept re-queueing every 30 minutes until I reached the 6 hour mark. 

    You have to understand, the less players in a queue - the longer are the queue times. I chose to queue between 4 AM until 10 AM looking for a game, and this is the result I had. Most players in EU play between ~11:00 AM - 02:00 AM. If you try to look for a game outside of those time zone brackets, and you are in a high MMR group, you might not find a game until it reaches the rather "popular" time when most people are online.

    The methods I've found to keep my motivation up are either queue in "popular" times corresponding to your selected region, or keep playing in lower brackets and help players around you get better and reach higher MMR brackets (this way you will have more skilled players to play/compete with, thus reducing the queue times).

  19. I'm a Solstice, I look at the timer and the timer reaches 1:53, it's time to stack the camps and head for the river rune. I head towards the rune, the timer rings 2:00 and the rune spawns. What do I see in-front of me? Haste. In that moment I have a few important things that I look at - Short lane state (Is it pushed? Is it an enemy duo-lane? What is the HP of the enemy hero/es on the lane? Are the allies in the lane able to provide assistance in case I do arrive?), Mid lane state (Is it pushed? Is the enemy midlaner being overly aggressive? What is the HP of the enemy mid hero? Is the ally midlaner able to provide assistance in case I do arrive?). These are a lot of calculations that I have to do in a very brief moment before picking the rune, as every second that I waste is a potential missed stack. I look at mid-lane, I see the lane is pushed towards the enemy side. I look at short lane, it is in fact a duo-lane, and it is pushed towards the ally side; however, the allies are in low HP, and the enemies are at a high HP percentage, a gank at such time, even with a haste, might not be successful and potentially end in a disaster. I take the haste rune to deny it from the enemy, and head back to farm.


    In most cases, the rune is useless. Most of the times the rune is used as a way to punish an overly aggressive opponent, or an opponent that has made a few too many mistakes in the early laning phase. I personally don't see a reason to remove the rune spawn at 2:00, as I don't feel its unfair, and I see a reason and justification for its existence in the game.

    • Haha 1
  20. I don't have any strong wills in regards to where I see this item, or any strong connection to me - in the end I just want to enjoy the game; and to enjoy the game I need certain items to have a certain feeling.

    The current state of Orb of Zamos just pushes me to be more "greedy" and "selfish" in regards to gold. I find myself fighting with the main carry over the pull camps as I need the gold from the last hits from neutral creeps; I find myself going in for last-hits on kills if possible. I'd give them to the carry, but I really need the gold 🙂

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