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  1. AgentZer0, I am well aware of these stats and I am also a little surpriced that no one brought this up earlier. However, I will try to expain why I do not think this data set are too relevant for the discussion itself. But first I want to point out that it would be of high interst to have the posibility to sort this data between ranks, game lengths, amount of kills, time of kills etc. Many games offers this type of data analysis and often developers only consider the pro scene numbers when doing balance changes. Either way, this option would give a lot of insight for everyone to evaluate the c
  2. Since few people actually bothered to comment in the thread after I wanted to abonden the discussion, I shall swallom my pride and give the comment you deserve. First, Hegelsohn, I did not expect that the reply that seemingly put in the most effort was from someone that simply wanted to call my claims for anectodal nonsense. That my telling of personal game experience were not trustworthy at all. That I should simply get better or stop cry. How can I possible want to continue in a discussion that were more concerned about trying to make me and the thread a flaw rather than actually
  3. Ok, since I am stupid and all my game experience and opinions are worthless I guess I just quit playing the game. Simple solution. Not gonna waste your or mine time anymore. Hf
  4. 1) I clearly stated multiple times that I dont have other evidence than my own experience. 2) I want to discuss and hear what other people think regarding the subject. 3) I think the jungle promote wrong type of gameplay (passive vs. active early gameplay). Of course many players can play a good jungler, but the fact is that a large majority of jungle players do not team play at all. They want purely to max-min their own early game at the cost of someone in their team. Hence the uneven resource distribution in the team are promoted by having a jungle hero. The suicide or roamer will
  5. ScrubFactory, you slightly modify my words to fit with your counter arguments. I will give you one thing though, this is the first reply were you actually consider small parts of what have been mentioned earlier in the discussion. However, it is too bad that you manipulate the phrases so you can extract what you want and need to keep the impression that the whole thread is a flaw. You are refusing to comment on actual arguments which are directly linked to quotations you take from my posts. Any person which bother to read the whole discussion will clearly see my arguments and also understand w
  6. I agree with this. But I want to emphesize that the distrubution of various lane combination does not feel very balanced. Without having any exact numbers I can only sort from personaly experience which put 2-1-1-jungle clearly in a percentile of its own. Then 2-1-2 is more common than 3-1-1 and any pseudo-roaming variant. However, even if the general philosophy want to promote variety, which obviously is a good thing, it has to be seen in comparison with how the games actually turns out. And here I argue that the 2-1-1-jungle setup clearly promote less even games in comparison to the others (
  7. It is hilarious how you mange to come in here and post a reply showing that you dont get any of the points in this discussion over and over. You are purely trying to insult and flame my point of view while I ask for you to put forward some real arguments. Your only argument is that you prefere passive low action games. That is your type of fun. Stay jungle and come out happy to fight with an advantage. Your post is worthless which I will show in the following. I never said I am special. I tried to explain to you that having a jungle and suicide in the majority of the games has n
  8. Sounds like you only play jungle in every game. Have you ever considered to play single player against bots? Does this give you the same amount of joy? This might sound offensive but I legit wonder if that could be possible. Since you obvisouly like to start a fight with level and item advantage compored to enemy players (and team mates for that matter).
  9. I totally agree with you. Sitting passive until team fights occur is not considered fun in my head. Yes you can find fun later, but that does not argue against why you should not have fun from the first minute of gameplay.
  10. First you enter a discussion without reading the content. Then you reply with saying that my opinion is worthless and that I am arrogant to suggest a change of the meta because I dislike the current meta. I will tell you one thing little padawan, I played HoN since 2009 in the closed beta, before that I played dota for who kows how many years in wc3, I have never played it competetive but purely for fun. I can say with confidence that it has never been more jungle picks in the history of my time in moba. And I have never experienced more uneven 15min cc games than I do today (which mostly happ
  11. You are obviously not getting a single part of the discussion. Please read it again. The argument is that jungle heros promote uneven, more passive, easier to troll and less fun games than the 2+1+2 setup. Your example has also already been discussed. This is a good point, similar to a 200 gpm BH in the jungle which actually happens in lower brackets. Yet I will argue that a hero such as Cthuluphant is almost never seen in the jungle anymore? So people seems to dodge jungle heros which are nerfed to some extent. Hence I think it would reduce unbalanced games with a nerf
  12. I want to elaborate a little on this comment. There has obviously been many good arguments for why the current jungle situations is not a problem, simply because it is not OP strictly speeking. However, it does not argue against why a general gold/xp nerf to jungle could be a good thing. By rotating away from salomon, solstice, legio, parasite, draco (which obviously also can do well in lanes, especially in lower brackets) the current meta can be changed. In my experience, the most even and fun games I had the last months have been without any jungle hero. From the above, I argue that the only
  13. The point is obviously to analyse games with 1, 2 or even 3 jungle hero against 0. Which then comes down to my choice of phrase "majority of games" since I dont have the actual statistics here. I will also aknowledge that this probably differ a lot between brackets (where I indicate that high silver / low gold brackets have the most issues ragarding this). There are literaly no counter play that is realistic that players will manage available at that level. There is no doubt that it is possible to do well as suicide. The problem is that this require far more skill than enter the
  14. This is exactly what followers of my point of view want. Its a reason why jungle hero are most played and at the same time most banned. The current meta is overcrowded with jungle picks and a huge amount of those games are not even and not fun. Would it be so sad to see less jungle hero for a while to promote good even 2-1-2 games. A major argument is also that this could actually help against trolls that would not troll in jungle playing "solo".
  15. I cannot say anything against this comment, but it feels very theoretical. Maybe in higher brackets and in full 5 man teams this is the case, but I want to argue that the type of jungler you explain here is extreemly rare in the majority of games. The jungler are in almost every case only doing things for self gain. If you ask for a ward or a gank, you would be surpriced to even get any resonse at all. This is of course not actually an issue with the game, and it might feels unfair to blame the jungle for such plays. However, the fact is that the current jungle give this option which I argue i
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