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  1. @ElementUser Also regarding the Nitro balancing, what do you think about rescaling his Q damage so that he has less dominance during early and early-mid game phase (lvl 1-11)? From my argument, it is mainly attributed to the fact that Nitro is dealing significantly more damage than other heroes in short burst especially in the early game. That gives him large space for snowballing in later phases. A rescale of damage could do the trick of keeping the hero carry potential while nerfing his early dominating presence.
  2. Thank you for heeding the call! Let's see how she does next patch, for now i'll stick to insta-ban.
  3. How about other strength heroes like the ones I mentioned? For example Pebbles which is even complained as overpowered at some point in this thread? I already said that Succubus could be a counter to Nitro, and then I follow up with an argument that there are only a few heroes like Succubus who can do that. So are you saying that every time your opponent pick Nitro you are going to have to pick Succubus (or the few like her) to get a shot at winning the lane? You see where I am going with this? Indeed because of the very niche requirement for counter hero, if someone picking a Nitro then the meta suddenly becomes much more limited than usual. Same case with Oggie or Salomon, someone with regen-ability debuff is always needed. And of course nobody was able to justify why a Gold I player can suddenly burst to Legendary II with over 85% winrate on Nitro.
  4. I would like to address a rather general question as well. The average GPM has increased upward by a considerable amount over the year, as a result the meta also shifted in the way that a hero's weakness can be easily covered with cheap starting items. Particularly, heavy nuking (intelligence) heroes which used to be mid-laners are now less suitable/efficient for the role comparing to other strength and agility heroes. Take for example Pyro, Chipper, Deadwood, Ellonia, Dampeer, Torturer... are becoming less effective at mid due to losing efficiency in solo-gank capability, caused by the quick GPM accrue and cheap starting item purchases (Plated Grieves, Shaman's Headress, Astrolabe, Nome Wisdom). A new wave of emerging combat heroes is becoming more prominent because they can quickly farm cheap item, have better survivability and is more dynamic in both teamwork situation and solo situation (such as Gunblade, Gauntlet, Arachna, Flint Beastwood, Gladiator...). I guess new meta changes over time is perfectly expectable, but for some classic traditional mid heroes like Pyro, Ellonia or Torturer, do the developer envisage them to fall out of their role and switch to more suitably side-laning, supporting roles, or this is an unintended consequence that it yet to be explored further?
  5. You still fail to see the point raised here. The point is what hero in this game can kill any strength hero in 3s after hitting casually a few times? Nitro could be playing against a lot of opponents, including Panda, Pebbles, Pestilence and even Salforis and kill them in a few hits just like he did with Devo. There are some heroes that can dominate the lane like Nitro did, i admit, but which one can dominate it with so little risk and leave so little room for action? Of course Succubus is a counter hero among the very few, does it mean a counter hero must be picked every single time someone pick Nitro in order to have a shot at winning the game? Let's use my very specific example to elaborate it into a broader sense of meta instead of focusing on strategic discussion.
  6. Please read carefully my explanation above before attempting to comment to avoid something completely out of context. I do not understand what you really mean by this. But I agree with your very last sentence. In this case the Nitro-picker went straight from Gold I to Legendary II with 31 wins, 6 losses on Nitro. Before that he had 50% winrate at Gold I rank, around 500 wins and 500 losses. Did he suddenly improve to such an extent that a Gold I player can easily beat a Legendary II game and beat an Immortal opponent 100% of the games whenever he picks Nitro? I simply find it hard to believe.
  7. I don't agree with what you are saying. The only correct point that you stated was both Nitro and Arachna are dominant mid heroes, but you misevaluated the fact that Nitro is significantly more dominating than Arachna. The threat of hook is not such a big pressure. If you had checked the replay you would have noticed that Nitro was always behind creeps so he's rather safe regardless of the threat of a hook. And fighting a Nitro is completely different from fighting an Arachna, eventhough both are dominant mid-laners. Arachna does not kill you within 3s and she can't disrupt your channeling, while Nitro can do both. Being focused by an Arachna, you can attempt to counter gank and even if you fail, it's is always possible to escape by tping out. As a Devo I would be confident enough to not die to an Arachna. In fact, if the same situation happened in this game but the opponent I faced was an Arachna instead of a Nitro, I am guaranteed to have a significantly higher chance to win mid. Of course you are talking about the pressure of an ally gank, but is it not the threat for every single hero in the game, not only to Nitro? How does it even relate to my argument? Is there even a hero in the game that was designed so that it can win a 1v2 situation during laning phase? If it helps, statistical-wise, Devo was a 2150 MMR mid player, and Nitro was someone who just reached 1850 (apparently by playing a lot of Nitro games and win most of them in his previous 50 games). Devo is a player who has close to 90% chance of winning the laning phase playing versus any lower rating player. With that statistics, and the fact that he loses 100% of the games against any Nitro player, I think it is safe to say that Nitro is overpowered, no less.
  8. Yes, I just understood it from watching the replay yesterday. The solution to avoiding Ballistic is to do anything but moving further from the target, which means you are not getting out of his attack range. So one is forced to either suffer from unlimited attacks till death, or move in and intercept the hero until either one go down if he doesn't want to get out of Nitro attack range. Hence, the best option for most is just to take the damage and get out of his attack range for a refresh. Now as I have answered your question, would you be so kind as to give a proper answer to mine?
  9. @ElementUser Revert Nitro back to previous patch please. The reworked version of Nitro is more of a buff to the previously overpowered Nitro rather than a nerf. Take a look at this match in NAEU Client - 160006939. At level 7 (00:12:23), Nitro and Devourer were both having similar XPM and GPM. Nitro has 2 Duckboots and 1 Punch dagger as damage items, his attack damage is 79-86. Devourer has 1 Iron Buckler + 1 minor totem, his armor is 2.6, hp is 986. Every time Nitro hits Devo, his hp drops around 100. After landing 4 attacks on Devo, his hp is at 586, he leveled up and had 620 hp. Nitro used ulti + his Q, Devo died in 3 seconds without being able to do anything. Please explain to me if this is an intended way for Nitro to be played? I do not see any other hero being able to kill Devourer after casually hitting him 4 times, including hard counter heroes for Devo such as Drunken Master, Arachna, Slither. The only hero that can kill Devo as easy and with almost no risk as that is Engineer, but it requires prior strategic planning (e.g. placing several mines). One might argue that Devourer's armor is too low. But imagine the majority of mid lane heroes including many intelligence and strength heroes. Unless a very small number of heroes that has an escape mechanism (Hag - blink, Flux - push, Apex - dash), any other hero with around 700hp left is guaranteed dead from 1 combo like that (Devo died with 620 hp in 3 seconds, so Nitro has 2 seconds more with ultimate). How many heroes that can take on a few hits without dropping his hp below 700? I only see a few strength heroes who could do that. But strength heroes are usually melee, so they are riskier when it comes to lane control and one small mistake could cause him to lose GPM balance. Even if the hero manages to survive until this point (like I did with Devo), things change once Nitro gets Ghost Marchers, and even worse when he gets Madfred's Knuckles. No argument needed for an intelligence hero, they might be able to clear waves but easily get rolled over once caught. At 00:16:12, Devo had 1176 hp and 3.5 armor, Nitro had 119-126 damage. Nitro used ulti out of invisible and hit Devo 5 times. Devo hp dropped to 566 (-610), that happened in 2.5 seconds, so technically if Nitro could land his full ultimate duration, Devo is dead from a single ultimate. Again, slightly larger GPM and XPM for Nitro but not that much. What hero can do this to Devo?
  10. As title said, Rampage charge pulls enemy toward him instead of pushes the enemy away from him. This should be an obvious bug. Match ID: 159953870 Time: 0:08:10 (3:22 in-game time)
  11. In SEA the teamwork factor is too low which makes PM very strong because that hero is specifically designed to excel in a 1v1 situation.
  12. Plenty of heroes who can do that if given the same advantage of xpm/gpm Pebbles had. A classic example is Adrenalin. Succubus is a very strong mid lane hero, if you put a Succubus against a Pebbles mid, given both players are equally skilled, then the Succubus will have more advantage because of her high attack damage + life steal. In many cases Succubus can completely dominates said Pebbles without ganks. I think you are mistakenly think that Pebbles has higher early damage output than other middle heroes in the game which makes him OP, which is true to some extend. But in fact it was the difference in damaging mechanism that gets you confused. Pebbles indeed has strong short-burst damage, and it is quite strong at level 5, enough to kill an intelligence hero at 2/3 hp, but as ElementUser said, he needs to get really close. Meanwhile heroes like Parallax or Succubus has different damaging mechanism, which is more frequent, weaker burst of damage in the form of fast cooldown spells and attacks. Due to the difference in mechanism, it takes a slightly different strategy for each hero to dominate his opponent. In the end it all comes down to the fact that you could set up a situation where you have enough damage to make your opponent HP drop to 0 within only a few seconds. The Vindi + Parallax gank wasn't successful because they failed to set this up.
  13. I watched the video and here are my comments: - Pebbles starting item doesn't include any regen item, but he was able to get more xpm and gpm than the Parallax, proving that the Parallax was not efficient enough in harassing his opponent - Parallax also miss alot of creeps to Pebbles deny, hence you can see that he's below Pebbles level - There is a clear difference in damage between level 4 and level 5. A lvl 5 Pebbles killing a 2/3 hp lvl 4 Parallax is nothing unusual Conclusion: The Parallax played significantly worse than Pebbles. It makes sense because Pebbles was an immortal 1 player at some point and Parallax is just a gold player, it is obvious that (from the video) there is a clear difference in skill between the two players. Therefore, the video isn't a good proof to show that Pebbles in an OP hero.
  14. I agree with you that Pebbles is stronger than Deadwood and Wretched Hag, but it wasn't because Pebbles is OP but rather Deadwood and WH are underpowered (or in fact they have good spells but their roles aren't suitable for mid anymore). The argument to this is because there are several heroes that can compete with Pebbles or counter him. Example of heroes on par with Pebbles: Rally, Gauntlet, Lord Salforis, Drunken Master, Pandamonium... Example of heroes that counter Pebbles (those with high armor/hp and those with slow): Flux, Gunblade, Slither, Nitro, Engineer... Also, aside the fact that Pebbles is vulnerable early game, he is also vulnerable during combat when his combo landed but the opponent doesn't die. In short, the hero is strong and flexible in many situations but he also has many weakness that the opponents can exploit.
  15. Hi datfizh, here are my comments Draconis passive dps has too high stacking damage. I have seen a level 6 draconis with bottle and boots clearing triple ancient stack. I am not sure if this was intended by ElementUser. Solstice and Legio, given free farming, are relatively fast farmers, on par with Parasite and faster than Tempest and Ophelia, but cannot be as fast as Draconis. Also, there are niches in their behaviour which the opponent team could exploit. Legio needs a Portal Key to be able to gank efficiently, and also some armor/regen to be able to survive in a gank situation, so he can generally gank after level 7, which is totally fine because that is already the late-early game phase. Also, given the fact that Legio is going to gank after he has his PK, it is so much easier to plan a strategy to gank him before, or counter-gank him, or avoiding him and waste his ganking time. Solstice needs to rely on night time to increase his ganking efficient. Of course this is not absolute, but ganking in daytime gives him more risk of exposure and thus more risk of unsucessful gank and thus more risk of getting a consistent GPM. Night time comes at the end of early game phase, so it was fine since it is in the ganking period. Also because of this nature of the hero, it makes it possible for the opponent team to be aware of Solstice ganking presence at night time, because it is more efficient for him to gank than to farm in woods without aoe passive. In term of early item choice, a Draconis will likely get a bottle and ghost marchers, plus his spells that makes it harder to gank him than to gank either Solstice or Legio, whatever Solstice or Legio choose as starting items. In short, they are both strong heroes, but not to the point I would call Overpowered. Imagine in a combat situation, would you rather spend time to do everything you could to drag the enemy down with you, or spend time hitting the gadget and get roll over by a bunch of spells from the opponent team? Difference between life and death is within the matter of < 3 seconds, so is the difference between kill and be killed. In many situation it would take you at least 1s to take out the turret and more to take out the ultimate, given that nothing is stopping you. Enemies don't wait for you to cancel their spells, or at least in high TMM they won't. Oogie was never intended to be a support though :S It is indeed an item to counter Salomon's ultimate. Even so, it is still possible for Salomon to snowball with his items alone. Spell Sunder's debuff is meaningless if you can't deal enough damage to drop the hero's HP to 0 within the duration of the debuff. Therefore i said it is possible to gank a Salomon, but the amount of effort it needs (in term of item choice, number of teammates, and ganking strategy...) is much more in comparison to other normal carries. If it is balanced, it creates variation as you said. In this situation, the 3rd spell is too OP so the optimized skill leveling strategy is to max E before anything else. 9/10 would do this in the games that I have played in. Again, I may be biased with High TMM experience, people might behave differently in lower ranks. Generally speaking, nerfing the farming potential or damage output during the early- and mid-game phase of the heroes I mentioned would be optimal. Right now, players are exploiting the fact that: - Hard carries farm the slowest during early- and mid-game and are most vulnerable - Strength heroes (those I mentioned) farm much faster during the same period, and also have higher survivability and sometimes higher mobility as well - These OP strength hero can regroup during mid-game and gank the carry, due to the large difference in gpm and xpm, they don't need 5 to beat 5, they can beat 5 with 3 or 4, giving their other farmers precious space during mid-game - Many games end with the space gap created. Even if the ganks are only succesful to some extend (kill a support or two), there is a solid difference between the free farming carry and a carry who is pressured by an opponent and constantly dragged into combat situation. These are the things that change the meta of the game to the current state. If you twitch any of the above-mentioned points, the meta will shift to another direction.
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