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Scout is lacking. First I curse everytime he is picked. He is mostly useless for the team but very good at stealing kills while avoiding being killed with stealth which makes him the ultimate statwhore hero.
First his Vanish needs balancing: He can constantly use it without any mana problem as the cost is low and then it has more duration than cooldown, which means he can constantly stealth backstab and restealth without ever getting into mana trouble. Balancing is required in not making the duration as long as the cooldown OR increasing the mana cost to stop the "spamming" and make him visible for short time while restealthing so he has to watch his positioning at least OR add a cooldown to stealth AFTER he did backstab.
Right now he steals "Night Hound"s USP by being perma stealthed.
And second he blows. He is like useless for the team. He has not the hunting skills and anti stealth of a bounty hunter and his only good team skill -- the wards -- have long cooldown and arent that great. MY suggestion is to change the observer wards into an "Utility" skill. Like Soulstealers 3 nukes he also gets 3 buttons which grant different skills.
First button: Eye
Second button: Alchemic Bundle (invis)
Third button: Detonate!
The green demo pack from Savage 2 makes a comeback on the scout. You can place it and make it explode via button. This would balance his Vanish-Nerf and make him more viable as team hero and not just a useless killstealing starwhore hero. Instead of Detonate which would fit in nicely on his ultimate to catch running heroes if it is well placed*, he could also get a third utility skill and make demo pack detonate after some time. Sadly I cannot think of a third utility skill based on Savage1/2.
*Example, you place it between 2 towers on a lane and once you get a hero low and he is running away, you can finish him off using the pack.
What do you think?
Originally Posted by laserblade
First to post in a make scout a techies wanabee thread.
Agree though, he is near useless. The only reason he is used is to ult a fleeing enemy. Otherwise he is just too fragile and otherwise useless to be used. The elctric eyes are "ok" The stealth is what makes him, but I agree that he shouldnt be able to perma stealth.
I say just make him Gondar, dont see a problem with scout "tracking" others or having his crossbow as shuriken toss. I love his animations, but hate both the ulti and the eyes. Ulti gets cancelled too easily (No vision = no ulti), costs too much mana and has a ridiculous cooldown on r1 and eyes either dont reveal half as much as they could or they get one shotted by someone accidentally noticing them. Only good for rune spotting early game, wohoo.
teh c4 liek idea is bad xD, would it be better 3 diffent typpes of ward?
Savage 1 type sensor for one
Steam turret type one for second (i think its steam turret anyway)
And maybe one that adds +1/2/3/4 (depedning on level) armour to nerby peeps?
I think perma invis is just fine but if you want to give him more of a place in a team then you should replace Eye with something like Watchers (from Nerubian Weaver). You will aid in the sense of map control. You do remove his ability to see invisible units, but that has rarely been a huge deal in my experience because if you place the eye in lane then once the creeps get close enough they can see it anyway so you won't be completely shutting down opposing stealth heroes.
So what? Like you said, he is a bad hero.
I've seen many scouts with this playstyle early game, its effective vs heroes with no fast hpregen. But that is about it, its annoying at best, but nowhere near imbalanced, so I dont understand why you think this ability is imbalanced on him.
And moreover, he cant farm like this, he has to stay invis (15s cooldown I believe) and wait for the cooldown to be able to restealth again.
E8400, 4850, 4gig, windows xp.
decent rig + great engine = awesome performance!
doesnt change the fact that this ability needs to be changed
Why is it a fact? According to you this skill is too imba. It would be imba if the hero itself could do something useful like stun, disable or w/e. But he cant do **** (you said it urself).
All he can do is backstab, hit a few times and go into stealth again, if not then he dies a horrible death. Taking away its long duration will cripple this hero even more. Why would u want that.
physical dps heroes are generally bad, but he is far more useful than madman, predator and arachnea.
E8400, 4850, 4gig, windows xp.
decent rig + great engine = awesome performance!
Imba stands for imbalanced.
I think Incommon means imbalanced as in underpowered, not overpowered like the term is usually used. I agree that the scout is usually the most useless member of the team, but doesn't die much because of perma-vanish.
I'll vouch for that. Even if I go 12-0 they're all kills against their squishy heroes and I can barely do anything during a push/team fight until the aftermath.
No. Vanish is simply out of line power-wise. You can spam it without ever having mana trouble, it lasts like forever, you can restealth while stealthed without anyone noticing and do the backstab-vanish combo which is made totally useless by a single regen ring (i lol at people thinking its smart to hit heroes instead of getting lasthits with it).
Not to mention that permastealth is what makes riki (nh) unique. Taking this away from him is stupid.
That scout overall sucks and its single strength is stealing kills doesnt change the fact that this skill IS out of line.
He needs to get buffed and made a useful hero for the team; but at the same time Vanish needs to be balanced.
If you dont understand this its a good idea not making posting about balance, tbh.
lol
Last edited by Inconmon; 06-25-2009 at 01:49 PM.
Scout is probably one of my favorite hero models, but his skill set is just dogshit. Rework him all together, make his skills just like NA's minus the carapace, keep his electric eyes in and rework how they work a bit.
I seriously dont understand what you are trying to say.
You want a remake? I agree
vanish is imba, nerf it? I do not agree
only SA should be able to permastealth? Dunno why u think only SA should have this. He is still a very unique hero even if u add more stealth heroes like clinkz.
E8400, 4850, 4gig, windows xp.
decent rig + great engine = awesome performance!
It is and always was what makes SA into SA. Permastealth. Other heroes could stealth alot, too, but none could keep it up constantly. BH for example simply run out of mana at some point when spamming it. And "some point" equals "very fast".
Why do you think scout doesnt run out of mana and BH does?... BH windwalk = 50 mana. With 1 voidstone (for preserverance) u can windwalk as much as u want.
E8400, 4850, 4gig, windows xp.
decent rig + great engine = awesome performance!
demented shaman+scout=some amazing ganks
Scout is fine imo. He is fun to play and the changes that make him different from bounty hunter feel good for the hero's playstyle.
Bounty hunter was never a good team hero in Dota either. He can have impact on the game though, if he ganks and farms a lot, something which his skills accomodate.
But the concept and identity of the scout is preserved as it was in Dota, and I think it's a good hero as it is now and perfectly balanced. Not all heroes should be team heroes, and certainly not demolitions expert or whatever OP wants to see. That would be boring and ability to destroy buildings faster is already imba in pro games (Death prophet).
Great remake of a Dota hero all in all, and only his ward skill is a bit weak imo (you can just buy them but more importantly people can attack them when theyre close). I would change that skill, but remake... nah. He is one of the only 2 stealth heroes in the game. Only noobs that get ganked by them all the time will complain about it.
Maybe his ward skill could be changed to something like the watchers Nerubian Weaver had in Dota.
Last edited by Hard2Kill; 06-25-2009 at 08:09 PM.
And stopped reading here. Fail.
Please keep to constructive posts or threads will be locked.
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=996
Sorry, but the comparison is waaaaaaaay off (and doesnt even TRY to make a valid point; only "i think its fine but give no reason"). First BH is great anti stealth, scout isnt. Second BH getting last hits is part of his style as he gains additional gold. Scout on the other hand cannot even shuriken nuke, gives/gets no advantages for getting the kills and is worse at chasing.
Most people just steal kills and statwhore while not being any use; and thats the way the hero is designed somehow.
Last edited by Inconmon; 06-26-2009 at 06:42 AM.
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