Understanding Damage Modification Effects - Armadon Scenario

[[TCND]Tanubis]

What I'm trying to figure out here is what order all the damage reduction affects get applied if you are getting hit, because it has a big impact on what items are worth getting on him and lets me figure out how often I'm going to proc spine bursts in various situations.

Here's my scenario: Vindicator auto attacks Armadon for 100 physical damage from the rear and has orb turned on to add in an extra 100 true damage (it wont normally be that much but lets keep numbers simple for the scenario). How much is he actually going to take in damage, and how much is applied towards the spine burst proc from his hide in this scenario?

He has 20% physical damage reduction from physical armor.
He has Armadillo Cloak maxed and so has 40% damage reduction.
He has a Helm of the Black Legion which procs and blocks 40 damage.
He has Ophelia's Damage Amplification (32% extra damage).
He is being affected by Hellflower's debuff (20% extra damage).
He has turned on Mask of Madness (20% extra damage).

Please show your calculations and which order everything is being applied

[ForTheSwarm]

Hellflower's debuff doesn't make you take 20% extra damage.

[[TCND]Tanubis]

Hellflower's debuff doesn't make you take 20% extra damage.

http://www.hondatabase.co.uk/Item/Hellflower.aspx

[[Sav2]Qwernakus]

http://www.hondatabase.co.uk/Item/Hellflower.aspx

"On expiration, deals True damage equal to 20% of total damage taken while effect was active"

Not the same as +20% damage. This means that if i deal 100 damage to Armadone just after applying Hellflower, i will have to wait 5 seconds for the exstra 20 damage.

[[TCND]Tanubis]

"On expiration, deals True damage equal to 20% of total damage taken while effect was active"

Not the same as +20% damage. This means that if i deal 100 damage to Armadone just after applying Hellflower, i will have to wait 5 seconds for the exstra 20 damage.

As of new patch, my understanding is that all on expiry damage effects were morphed to as-it-happens damage effects. The exact functioning of hellflower's debuff damage is not the point of this post though, I'm trying to figure out what would happen to armadon and how much damage would be applied to his spine burst triggering.

[[S2]ElementUser]

What I'm trying to figure out here is what order all the damage reduction affects get applied if you are getting hit, because it has a big impact on what items are worth getting on him and lets me figure out how often I'm going to proc spine bursts in various situations.

Here's my scenario: Vindicator auto attacks Armadon for 100 physical damage from the rear and has orb turned on to add in an extra 100 true damage (it wont normally be that much but lets keep numbers simple for the scenario). How much is he actually going to take in damage, and how much is applied towards the spine burst proc from his hide in this scenario?

He has 20% physical damage reduction from physical armor.
He has Armadillo Cloak maxed and so has 40% damage reduction.
He has a Helm of the Black Legion which procs and blocks 40 damage.
He has Ophelia's Damage Amplification (32% extra damage).
He is being affected by Hellflower's debuff (20% extra damage).
He has turned on Mask of Madness (20% extra damage).

Please show your calculations and which order everything is being applied

See this thread for more information: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=33174

As for your hypothetical calculation itself, I'll calculate the Physical Damage & True Damage portion separately.

Physical Damage:

Damage Block -> 100 - 40 = 60 Damage

Physical Armor Reduction: 60 * (1 - 0.2) = 48 Damage

True Damage: Stays the same (100) because Armor & Damage Block does not reduce True Damage.

Sum of the current physical & true damage: 48 + 100 = 148

When dealing with damage multipliers (either >1 or <1), you add them together (linearly) to acquire the final damage multiplier (tested to make sure). Now of course, since the damage multiplier is multiplication, the same final result is acquired whether you apply the damage multiplier to each term separately or the final sum (distributive property with constants).

-40% (Armordillo) + 20% (Elder Parasite) + 28% (Nature's Wrath) = 8% Damage Amplification = 1.08 damage multiplier.

Now we multiply the damage by the damage multiplier:

148 * 1.08 = 159.84 damage

Since Hellflower's damage takes place at the END of its debuff duration and not in real-time like Elder Parasite/Armordillo/Nature's Wrath, the total damage is multiplied by 1.2 at the END, and is not factored into the addition of damage multipliers:

159.84 * 1.2 = 191.808 ≈ 192 damage

Therefore, 192 damage is dealt in this scenario. I'm assuming no other damage instances are dealt in the Hellfower Debuff duration. (Note that all damage after all reductions that are taken during Hellflower duration is multiplied by 0.2 and added into an accumulator variable, so the bonus damage from Hellflower's debuff is not dependent on the current HP level like Voodoo Jester's Cursed Ground is)

P.S. Nature's Wrath amplifies damage by 28%, not 32%.

[[TCND]Tanubis]

See this thread for more information: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=33174

As for your hypothetical calculation itself, I'll calculate the Physical Damage & True Damage portion separately.

Physical Damage:

Damage Block -> 100 - 40 = 60 Damage

Physical Armor Reduction: 60 * (1 - 0.2) = 48 Damage

True Damage: Stays the same (100) because Armor & Damage Block does not reduce True Damage.

Sum of the current physical & true damage: 48 + 100 = 148

When dealing with damage multipliers (either >1 or <1), you add them together (linearly) to acquire the final damage multiplier (tested to make sure). Now of course, since the damage multiplier is multiplication, the same final result is acquired whether you apply the damage multiplier to each term separately or the final sum (distributive property with constants).

-40% (Armordillo) + 20% (Elder Parasite) + 28% (Nature's Wrath) = 8% Damage Amplification = 1.08 damage multiplier.

Now we multiply the damage by the damage multiplier:

148 * 1.08 = 159.84 damage

Since Hellflower's damage takes place at the END of its debuff duration and not in real-time like Elder Parasite/Armordillo/Nature's Wrath, the total damage is multiplied by 1.2 at the END, and is not factored into the addition of damage multipliers:

159.84 * 1.2 = 191.808 ≈ 192 damage

Therefore, 192 damage is dealt in this scenario. I'm assuming no other damage instances are dealt.

P.S. Nature's Wrath amplifies damage by 28%, not 32%.

Ah, but the real question here is how much damage is applied towards the spine burst proc. You linearly add up the modifiers, but at what stage is the reduction from armadillo getting factored in? If it goes elder parasite / nature's wrath / armadillo, much more damage will be registered towards the proc of the next spine burst than if it goes armadillo / nature's wrath / elder parasite, even though armadon is taking the exact same amount of damage either way.

Thanks though, this really clears up a lot for me.

[[S2]ElementUser]

Oh in that case, the answer is very simple:

ability.entity for Armordillo:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<ability
    name="Ability_Armadon3"

    
    
    
    icon="icon.tga"
    
    maxlevel="4"
    requiredlevel="1,3,5,7"

    actiontype="passive"
>
    <ondamaged >
        <condition test="not_target_type Tower">
            <condition test="back_impact_angle le 55">
                <condition test="back_impact_angle le 35">
                    <accumulatedamage scale="0.9,0.8,0.7,0.6" />
                    <condition test="accumulator ge 200">
                        <condition test="modifier spineburst1">
                            <playeffect effect="../ability_02/effects/cast.effect" source="source_entity" target="" />
                            <spawnaffector name="Affector_Armadon_Ability2" target="source_position" level="1" />
                        </condition>
                        <condition test="modifier spineburst2">
                            <playeffect effect="../ability_02/effects/cast.effect" source="source_entity" target="" />
                            <spawnaffector name="Affector_Armadon_Ability2" target="source_position" level="2" />
                        </condition>
                        <condition test="modifier spineburst3">
                            <playeffect effect="../ability_02/effects/cast.effect" source="source_entity" target="" />
                            <spawnaffector name="Affector_Armadon_Ability2" target="source_position" level="3" />
                        </condition>
                        <condition test="modifier spineburst4">
                            <playeffect effect="../ability_02/effects/cast.effect" source="source_entity" target="" />
                            <spawnaffector name="Affector_Armadon_Ability2" target="source_position" level="4" />
                        </condition>
                        <setaccumulator value="0.0" />
                    </condition>
                    <scaledamage scale="0.90,0.80,0.70,0.60" />
                </condition>
                <condition test="back_impact_angle gt 35">
                    <scaledamage scale="0.95,0.90,0.85,0.80" />
                </condition>
            </condition>
        </condition>
    </ondamaged>
</ability>

From the code, 0.6*Final_Damage Armadon takes is added into the accumulator variable. assuming Final_Damage is a single damage instance (Hellflower is a separate damage instance).

If the accumulator variable exceeds 200 in a single damage instance, then the accumulator variable's value is reset to 0. Of course, all the proper conditions must be met for all this to happen in the first place (Armadon's back is facing the enemy within the angle range that's considered the "back", etc.).

[[TCND]Tanubis]

Thanks!

From this, behemoth's heart / satanic are starting to look like the best items for him. Does insanitarious self damage get factored in or does it not come from behind?
Also, how do dot effects work with spine burst? Running away from the person who inflicted the dot procs it? What happens if the person who cast it on you died?

[[S2]ElementUser]

Thanks!

From this, behemoth's heart / satanic are starting to look like the best items for him. Does insanitarious self damage get factored in or does it not come from behind?
Also, how do dot effects work with spine burst? Running away from the person who inflicted the dot procs it? What happens if the person who cast it on you died?

No, Insanitarius doesn't count because it originates from Armadon, so you can't "really" get an angle for it.

As long as your back is facing the opponent (which is considered the "source" of the DoT), the Armordillo damage reduction will be factored in & will count towards the accumulator variable.

[Chibbi]

Is there a range on the "source" if you get to far away from the "source" does the resistance stop?

[[Wolf]Trysaeder]

No..

[Llama]

Do pets/gadgets count as their own vector or does it use the vector of the hero who owns said pet/gadget?

[edxs]

My experience playing Armadon tells me it's the unit that generates the damage, not the hero of the owning player.

The owning player's hero doesn't make sense because neutrals and Hellbourne/Legion don't have a hero.

[Urizen]

The well on either end is considered the "owner" or "hero"

[Llama]

^of gadgets and stuff? Or neutrals"