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The Madman
Introduction
I didnt see alot of guides on madman and I only found one good one and that was very hard to find Dx, its quiet a shame on how people go for agility carries like chronos and zephyr nowerdays and i want to bring back some of the carries that people have forgotten. Not alot of people know how to play him and hesitate on what to get on him, ive seen some very strange items on him and some items which are reccomended in guide which i think are rather silly comparing to the alternatives.
Advantages
Scales Well
Half Decent Str gain but he is no Keeper Of the Forest
Good agility gain for all round good dps
Better than most agility carries early-mid game
One of the few melee heroes that can solo mid
Disadvantages
VERY LOW MANA POOL
BASICALLY NEXT TO NOTHING INTELLIGENCE
ONLY FOR REAL MEN
VERY EASY TO GET FACE RAPED EARLY GAME
!!!
Stats
Base Damage: 47-51
Base Attack Speed: 0.59
Movement Speed: 300
Base Armour: 3.22
Strength: 17 (+2.1)
Agility: 23 (+2.8)
Intelligence: 14 (+1.5) (cries, real men cry for the pain of other real men)
Base Hitpoints: 473
Base Mana: 182 (cries)
Abilities
Stalk
This is an activation ability that applies stealth to yourself with a 0.5 second fade time, It lasts 4 seconds. This also ability also allowes you to deal some magical damage to people you pass while stealthed, making it super awesome!
Mana Cost: 60
Range: 175
Cooldown: 12/10/8/6
Damage: 90/100/110/120 (AoE Magical)
Effect:
50%+ Movement Speed (522 with SteamBoots only)
Analysis
Ok so at level 4 as soon as it fades you got another 2 seconds before you can use it, which is useful in chasing and getting away. Also the damage is quiet nice early game for the mana cost and is also to avoid those ganks and to intiate them too. But by all means this is not spamable early game.
Barrel Roll
I wasnt so sure how to explain this ability but think of it like Witch Slayers Graveyard ability. It costs a hefty amount of mana but its worth it for how it can dominate early game and even get you those ganks.
Mana Cost: 130
Range: 400/465/530/600 (in a line)
Cooldown: 11
Damage: 100/150/200/250 (AoE Magical)
Analysis
With the build reccomended in this guide it can do alot of damage really early on, so it can be used like a nuke of some sorts, you really dont have the mana pool to support this ability early on but its a great spell especially solo mid to harras and even get those suprise ganks.
Gash
Its pretty simple, He has a built in 2.0x critical hit, this ability is passive...
Chance: 10/16/22/28%
Analysis
AWESOME?!
Berserk
His Ultimate, which basically turns you into a killing machine, what more can be said?
Mana Cost: 100/150/200
Cooldown: 55
Effect: Lasts 30 seconds
Movement Speed 5/7/9%+
Attack Speed 40/80/120+
Analysis
This synergises well with gash and of course your auto attack, this also gives you the runspeed you sometimes need to chase people trying to get away!
The Skill Build
Level
1. Stalk
2. Barrel Roll
3. Barrel Roll
4. Stalk
5. Barrel Roll
6. Stalk
7. Barrel Roll
8. Stalk
9. Berserk
10. Gash
11. Berserk
12. Gash
13. Gash
14. Gash
15. Stats
16. Berserk
17-25. Stats
Reason Why
Gash and Berserk arent very good early game to get the ganks, Stalk and Barrel roll however are, they can be very deadly to a madman who knowes how to roam during the laning phase, it can also get you the gank as theyre running away from your lane.
You level barrel roll over stalk for its dps, it can be deadly to squishly intelligence heroes at mid.
Item Build
When your gearing up madman, you have to think of him like a intelligence hero, like Pyro or something, items which give you instant mana regen and not passives which will help you in the long run, but to be effective all game you need to learn what items you need for a character with next to no mana pool to get. Glowstone is cheap for what it gives you, also a very nice carry item can be made from it which suites madmans style, gives you a little bit of everything which is what madman wants.
If your either not so good at rune control or laning with a support hero that gives you some extra mana (ring of the teacher that kinda thing) you wanna go this for your first items
OR if your super awesome at rune control go this!
Now your thinking ok so after ive farmed a bit what should i have then... well theyre are a couple of ways you can go
This if your not farming well or for an extra 1000ish gold u can get...
This! And now theyre are 2 roots from here, you either get this if want to go for hellflower for never ever running out of mana
Or if u really need some protection from those nasty nukers and characters like pebbles who just want to face roll you, can start working towards an inventory that looks like (shruken head first of course)
You can keep it as a glow stone can get a hellflower instead if you went for the great arcana
But at end game it should look like
and if the game is still going your doing something wrong, but this would be the end game item for you
Usually you either need a hellflower or a frostwolf skull, usually the game does not last long enough for you to have both, its usually just hellflower or frostwolf skull with a shruken head( i cannot stess how important this item is for madman).
IF your super awesome and can use a bottle to regen pretty much all mana or your super well farmed you can skip glowstone and go straight for shruken head, glowstone is mearly and aid to gank and gives you access to a super awesome item!!
Hero Synergies
Support Heroes And Babysitters
Theyre an obvious one, but heroes which specifically help you with mana are the best ones, madmans major problem is mana, and this guide is pretty much all about how little mana he has.
Good ones are
Nymph for her mana regen
They normally get ring of the teacher and shield lets you go kamikaze on them for a while
lane dominators let you farm, and he has a stun/slow so you can save mana
Gankers
Some gankers are very good to go with madman. Most intelligence heroes go well with him
Some like
Cursed Grounds FTW!
Spamable nuke that slows? yes plz
Suprisingly good combo, can dish out alot of damage in short bursts.
Other Agility Heroes
SOME agility heroes can go well with madman, but a very select few...
Stun and dps aura
MOONQUEEN! (personal joke) nice bursts of damage
makes sure people are dead, accept anoying ward slithers that dont level up first ability which
Bad Heroes To Go With
Suprisingly I had to make this section as some people think these heroes are good with anyone.
Other Agility Heroes
If you have a situation where you have more than one carry which is quiet frequent in pubs, ones you dont want to be laning with are..
your stun isnt long enough for him to do his thang
you dont synergize, very well and will get face rolled by nukers and ranged harrasers
this guy likes to bugger off around level 4 to go jungle leaving by yourself against 2 mean looking heroes... Unless its shaman, then you just want to hi 5 him
Heroes to watch out for
One word... Silenced
Two words... Mana drained
Three words... OMFG SAGES LAW?!
Four words... pebbles portal key dead....
*Edit* you do find yourself laning against squishy intelligence heroes but if your solo mid against blood hunter, watch out, he silence (no awesome abilities) then start auto-attacking you, and he even heals himself...so... just roam i guess thats what i did and we won the game, I died when trying to gank him, but I killed him in the process (thanks S2 games for towers :3)
FAQ
I WANT TO DO SOME DAMAGE! NOT PROTECT MYSELF WITH SHURKEN HEAD!
Shruken head actually boost your damage especially in the case of melee heroes, and you output more damage while shruken head is active becuase magic doesnt effect you, its built using a warhammer... so its a no brainer that it boosts your damage, why would I reccomend items that dont help you do damage to a carry?
Why not a Runed axe? Why on earth do i need a glowstone?
Mana regen is always nice, but whats cheaper? Bottle+ glowstone or a runed axe? Then the next question you want to ask yourself is do you want mana now? or have to wait a little while the other guy is facerolling his keyboard with his massive manapool? Since madman has a good damage already I dont really see the need for extra damage, especially since shruken head gives a nice boost once you have it. Frostwolf skull basically is the cherry on the cake, it gives a slow 25+ to all stats, lots of hp, lots a mana, and a slow and lowers attackspeed, what more do you want?
If you also want to spend the whole game farming a runed axe then using the runed axe to farm some other items be my guest, real men get what they want when they want and will take gold from kills, be a man!
Hellflower is retarded
I dont like hellflower, im just saying its optional, I rarely get it myself... but the Shruken head + hellflower combo is very nice, they cant cast spells on you, then theyre silenced... the best defense is the best offence. + you will never ever run out of mana, you can swap your bottle for a life steal but i love bottle so no thanks whispering helm. Hellflower is basically a alternative to frostwolf, hellflower is cheaper I think and has another use, its all about what you prefere, but the glowstone is always nice.
Why no life steal?
Ive never seen the need for life steal on madman, good rune control and a bottle its alot cheaper and i rarely need life steal to farm well, madman is too much of a great ganker to need that junk, ive also used really bad pyros to spam spells at me to charge my battery, you can dodge their abilities if theyre really bad imo. BUT if you realllly need life steal becuase you suck with a bottle just get a whispering helm and turn it into a symbol of rage...
PARASITE ELDER + BRUTALISER IS AWESOME?!
eh... you really want to take in 30% more damage? think about it, if your a hero like chronos i can understand but madman comes with a built in ability to boost your attack speed and he has a built in AoE stun, so this it pretty much junk on him, you only want the savage mace at the end of the day for the damage, but frostwolf skull and shruken head and hellflower gives you anyway...
I have Scout Syndrome, Madman sucks
I play alot of support heroes, personally i dont like playing carries and im no Chu, some carries you can laugh at while you sheepstick them, Madman is one of those few melee carries that can kill characters like hellbringer and witchslayer solo mid early game, he isnt to be laughed at. Also Madman is just pure awesome sauce...
Why not pick Chronos?
So you just wanna right click on people and watch them die as theyre horribly stun locked? be my guest
Are There any Situational Items?
Theyre tonnes of situational items, but these applies to all heroes accross the board. I mean if you playing a pub match with some mates and your fighting a zehpyr, its always fun for everyone to buy barbed armour and walk into his ulti and watch him die instantly
But this stuff is all elementary, if your reading this guide, it means your a real man and you know this stuff already, your just here to give me a high five.
Should'nt I get Soulscream Rings for DPS?
No, you have scout syndrome, he is a carry, he has a naturually high dps comparing to most heroes on this game, his agility gain its 2.8, be smart and invest in hp and mana, most items on this guides gives you dps anyway from items to boost your mana and hp... so why waste your money? Its a waste of what... 410 gold? wait for 40 gold and buy a bolstering armband for your steamboots.
Why no ghost marchers?
Its junk, you have an ability to boost your runspeed... 2 of them infact! also stalk with steamboots give you 522 runspeed, thats the max your allowed in game, ghost marchers arent gonna turbo charge you.
Replays
Simple pubs games, obviously if im serious i go for shurken head but if theyre kinda bad i just rush frostwolf + hellflower lol.
M34519138
M34574932
Any comment are welcome, please no people with scout syndrome, ill just simply answer with you have scout syndrome. Thank you for reading and stop feeding!
take out the hellflower...
steamboots, runed axe, shrunken head, frostwolf skull, symbol of rage, savage mace
Sig artist: Mediocrity
i say no to runed axe, plese read the guide properly i have an explaination on why theyre is not runed axe in the build...
it also says you dont need hellflower, its optional...
do need runed axe,
l2ancientstack
Sig artist: Mediocrity
maybe you dont understand the concept of the guide, you wont need to do that with all the ganking you will be doing, if you do it right that is...
be a real man
ancient stacking takes 5 seconds of time ( literally) and increases gold output dramatically. If you can't learn to utilize this your gonna be stuck in low level games. Along with anyone else who reads your guide and takes it as fact.
You seem to be misinformed in thinking you cant gank when you have a runed axe, or stacking ancients magically makes ganks impossible.
Last edited by a_cloth; 03-28-2010 at 01:32 AM.
Sig artist: Mediocrity
why spend time stacking ancients when you can much more effective gear and go gank? you like stacking ancient creeps? i prefere ganking
u dont spend time stacking ancients. You do realize how stacking ancients work right?Originally Posted by docb69
1. Control a unit with whispering helm
2. Use 3 shift+clicks to pull creeps each minute with controlled unit ( this process takes about 2-3 seconds when your skilled
aka click on lane you want to go gank quickly pull ancients if minute mark is near continue to gank
I can tell you still won't understand this and will probably learn one day. Till then i leave you with crucial advice
carrying is all about balancing ganking and farming. You fail at this basic level
Sig artist: Mediocrity
yes i know how to stack ancient, im just saying you dont have to stack ancients, consentration on ganking.
the build isnt designed for creep stacking, if you want to creep stack go see another guide, theyre are plenty of others, this guide is solo mid madman playing a early game ganker role. if you dont like it go ancient stack.
aka multi-tasking makes by brain hurt duurrrrr
ancient stacking takes absolutely 0 concentration
Sig artist: Mediocrity
if i add ancient stacking and runed axe build into my guide, will be quiet? :P im not saying ancient stacking is bad, i do it all the time, im just marketing madman for a different role.
I didn't know ancient stacking was a role :O
Wait. Solo mid madman? Why did you include lane hero synergies in it then?
It's spelt Chronos. C-H-R-O-N-O-S. YOU DO NOT SPELL IT CHORNOS OR CRONOS, IT'S CHRONOS. ARE YOU RETARDED?
Vote Up for the "TOO BAD IT'S ME 0.1% CHANCE FOR 7X MULTICAST LOLOLOL" suggestion!
Annoyed at Zephyr/Warbeast? Play games with him, click on the scout.
in pubs games sometimes people want mid, so sometimes your force outta the lane
-.-
happend to me today, the person who wanted mid really badly started feeding -.-
but yeah this guide is centreing around madman soloing mid, *ancient stacking isnt a role, its something you do for cash Dx just saying this could be an alternative way to play madman less creep farming more early game ganks* the synergies was a general guide to if you were laning with a friend since this guide is about madman the roaming ganker, not madman the carry D:
get either powersupply or bottle, both is overkill, i stick with powersupply since it gives burst regen and can not be interrupted.
runic axe is a must have, improvies his farm dramatically. besides, you have nothing for damage except savage mace, runic axe provides a moderate +65dmg, coupled with needed manaregen. doesn't matter if you can get shrunken and hellflower, you deal no dmg, and your nukes aren't strong enough.
whispering helm is also a must have, for ancient stacking and later on, if needed, to get a symbol of rage.
take hellflower out. to expensive for what it does, manaregen on mass.... to much manaregen, you won't be able to get your mana pool low, and you also don't need that much additional int/regen, attackspeed is also weaker then raw + dmg for madman.
frostwolfs also got enough +int to never run oom coupled with a runic axe.
what about shield breaker? or harkon's as an optional? (Enemy stacks armor plox)
Best item build =
Loggers, x2 minors, runes, mana + health pots.
Iron Shield + Lifetube from the outpost (5-10 mins in you should have this).
Steam Boots.
Whispering Helm. (stack ancients up 5+ times)
Runed Axe Finished. (by this stage, get your support to help you take down the ancients, you'll gain atleast 1000 for 3+ times in my experiance)
Slayer > Savage Mace.
Bkb/Shieldbreaker.
Profit.
Harkon's is a big no-no, you won't have the mana pool to support it, until you are lvl25.
A guide should be there to list the core items and possible luxury items (which you really should add).
Also, Frostwolf Skull is core item on every Madman. It gives you everything you need HP, mana, regen, dps, a way to deal your ridiculous damage (slow). A Madman with Runed Axe, and just a Skull attacks as fast as machine gun, while criting every few hits dealing 500 damage or so, all that while soaking up damage.
ok ive decided to revisit my guide, since everyone is adamant on rune axe xD probaly glow stone and sustainer then runed axe then frostwolf skull if u want to go the farming route i guess ill add it later
harkons blade pretty much rinses your mana pool, at any level unless you got a frost wolf skull, but shield breaker does good damage for its price, but savage mace its pretty good imo for a late game item on him
Last edited by docb69; 03-29-2010 at 08:24 AM.
I wouldn't say never
Theres a small % of games maybe 1-2% where shrunken head is a crutch and a harkons would fit better. ONLY as a 6th item though ofc
Sig artist: Mediocrity
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