Thread: Get rid of PSR and In-game Stats

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  1. #1
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    Get rid of PSR and In-game Stats

    I'm in favor of totally eliminating PSR and most of the Stats. Keep banlist for players you don't want to play with again, but get rid of stats and psr.

    People will teamstack so fast because of PSR and stats, at least when there is none of that you just join the team (side/perspective) you would rather play on, and if there was no stats, people wouldn't care as much about losing or winning. I've seen people stack a team and try to start when the prediction was 91 to 9 percent because of everyone's PS ratings. Everyone would rather stack for an easy win then play an actual game. So I pose that we just get rid of all that.. if the stats people need stats, they should be posted online so they can check up on how they are doing, or on someone who played really well that match. But in-game stats is just bad... It's no fun to be on a noob team, but psr and stats isn't helping to ease people into a game and create a much better community. If you get on a noob team, its automatically bad now because your stats will undoubtedly go down, and your psr will go with it now. Most people would just leave, but even that will affect you, so there is no way out without taking a negative hit (usually). If there was no stats or psr, people wouldn't care as much about it, and therefor just try their best with whatever conditions are presented.

    You can still attempt avoid such things as noob teams by having conditions met that could be tracked by specific stats other than just kill blows to deaths, like how many games a person has played. So maybe don't get rid of ALL the in-game stats, but maybe have some sort of achievement progression system where I could see that this person has some experience. Obviously a system could be put into play where you wouldn't be able to join a game unless you've played a specific amount of matches, just like now with the noob, intermediate, pro thing, and of course having leavers tracked would still be helpful insight when starting a game.

    But at this point it just seems trivial to keep stats and psr in the game. It doesn't make joining lobbies and starting games any fun, nor does it present us with the best conditions to test the game properly. How can I have input on a game when a clan is pub stomping? Or when a team with psr's all above 1700 have stacked against a team with lower than 1500 average? You really can't.

    If anything I want a system that tells me who on the list is playing with their friends, so I know when i'm actually in a real pub game or not. Then I wouldn't be as worried about the psr and stats because I know they are all not friends and, just like me, meeting/playing with their teammates for the first time.

    General Ideas: ( Don't berate me for these, but do give reasons for or against )

    - Some sort of privacy setting when it comes to stats. Or like I said before, no stats aside from essential things, like games played and leaver status inside the game.
    - A way to see if people from your game are playing with friends on your list so you can make an informed decision about whether to play that game or find another.
    - To alleviate the previous, a matchmaking system for how many friends you have. FE: You and two other friends are playing, so it tries to find a group of 2 - 4 people to join the opposing team to even it out.
    -Get rid of the pub rating, or create a new system that doesn't penalize a person for just winning or losing matches. My PSR tanked after a losing streak when I was teaching my new (to the game) friends how to play, and anyone just starting to play, their ratings will probably tank too, just because they are new.

  2. #2
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    i thought PSR doesnt drop when u play against players of much higher skill ... and if you just play a few games, it will rise to the proper level in about 20 games ..
    if your friends are really new to the game, then it's normal they have low rating. that way they can match with other new ppl.

  3. #3
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    Then there´s no meaning in playing

  4. #4
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    Terrible idea, i here hello kitty fantasy island has less compitition you should try it

  5. #5
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    You can always host on your own and making autobalnce.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlyke View Post
    Terrible idea, i here hello kitty fantasy island has less compitition you should try it
    I think you should be playing this game, you might learn how to spell properly.

  7. #7
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    and if there was no stats, people wouldn't care as much about losing or winning.
    Then people wouldn't play as much, and alot more dicking around would be done, grieving and general *******ness

    anyway, the PSR is alot better then having to check everyones K/D etc

    So, just hit that auto balance button!

  8. #8
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    yeah i also want to get rid of it :/ i got 1400 but i'm kinda good. but no one wants me in their games.. idiotic

  9. #9
    No, I don't even have that great of stats, and I still go against this. I find pub stomps boring to be on the stompping side and not the stomped, this is why I'll leave the team of my friends to join hellbourne or auto balance it, and still win. Quit your *****ing about stats. The game is MEANT to be competitive, stats and psr just add to that.

    I only lurk anymore..

  10. #10
    without psr and stats it will just turn into dota on battle.net

    you dont know you're playing and what heis capability might be

    psr is not perfect but a little bit of tweaking and it will work really nice
    S2 just surrendered to LoL

  11. #11
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    meh posted in wrong thread...

    btw what's the max difference between PSR ratings between players until you gain/loose nothing
    Nightmarish
    Custom Zombie Survival Map for HoN

    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...9#post15049429

  12. #12
    Yeah..... no.

    Sorry, but there's way too many people who, as you said, will happily team stack and such. This won't solve the problem, it'll just encourage the people who do like doing so to band together and join games together to newb stomp.

    I also agree that PSR is MUCH better than checking stats. Right there in front of you, and you can easily hit the autobalance button. In every game I've been in, autobalance has given me a fun, action filled, fairly even fight, in which I'm not stomped.

    I WOULD suggest, however, that the countdown on game start is increased a little. Giving people more time to leave if they don't like the unbalanced teams. Also a system to make auto balance more easily respect friends that want to be together, perhaps both friends needing to tag each other as friends.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schneider View Post
    Then there´s no meaning in playing
    Kill yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godlyke View Post
    Terrible idea, i here hello kitty fantasy island has less compitition you should try it
    What? You probably don't even play competitive DotA/HoN.

    Quote Originally Posted by matER View Post
    You can always host on your own and making autobalnce.
    Fail. This entire thread is about the unreliability of stats and PSR, and you ask him to use the feature that sorts the game based on people's PSR ratings? Durrrrrp.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaliKot View Post
    without psr and stats it will just turn into dota on battle.net

    you dont know you're playing and what heis capability might be

    psr is not perfect but a little bit of tweaking and it will work really nice
    The problem with PSR is that it is in no way an indication of skill of any sort. If anything it is an indication of how lucky/unlucky a player is.

    The problem is in most cases, PSR is effected by things you many not have direct control over. The game is largely team based, it is entirely possible a bad player gets put on a very good team a lot of times in a row, and gets his PSR up because of this.
    He has a high PSR but is still a bad player.
    In reverse, a good player could get put on a bad team a lot of times, and his PSR is decreased. He has a low PSR but is still a good player.

    Also, other things that can effect PSR and stats in general can (and do happen, way to commonly at that) which the game does not record.
    Disconnecting players is a common example. A single person from your team that disconnects can in some cases guarantee you a loss, and may also negatively effect your other stats.

    In several cases I have been in a game and lost by proxy because my entire team disconnected. I've had it happen maybe 4-5 times now, and it is not uncommon to lose 1-2 players in a game, even when joining a no leavers only match. My PSR has been negatively effected because of this, and it is not just because I suck at the game.

    Other things like lag can negatively effect stats (which again is not entirely uncommon).

    The problem with pretty much every stat in the game is they are vague, much to vague to be accurate.
    Unless there is a lot more stats added for literally everything in the game, the stats will always be inaccurate at best and completely rubbish at worst. (Hell, I have faced several clans who have made duplicate accounts and purposely gotten low stats, just so they could then go around getting easy wins while pretending to be bad players)

    I'd say the following stats should also be recorded.

    What heroes the person has played as and how much (both how many times they have chosen the hero, and how many times they have played due to things like random hero selection).
    A record of every hero you have killed and been killed by should also be kept (and possibly what was used to kill them and what was used to kill you).
    What items you favour using with each hero. (a total of what items you use, and an average per use of that hero, if the item is usable, how many times it is used and the average per game)
    Even what skills you favour using with each hero. (again, a total and average per hero)
    The amount of time you spend in the fountain per hero per game.
    The amount of downtime you spend per game due to death.
    Even the amount of time you effectively spend doing nothing (such as just walking around the map, oh god, scout players would be kings of this stat).

    Kills should be divided into several groups.

    Solo-kills which implies you got the kill either on your own, or with very little assistant.
    Team-kills which obviously implies you got the kill with help from team mates.
    Last hits, kills you only got because you stole it off of someone else.
    As well as the current groups (total kills, assists).

    Similar stats should also be recorded when you get killed.

    Also, both kills and deaths should record what level you died at, or what level the hero was that killed you.

    Last hits on creeps and denies should be logged.

    I have never played as a support hero, but they should also get some stats of their own (as they are not expected to get high numbers of kills).

  15. #15
    I for one like det PSR, before psr all i cared about was my k:d.
    Now i play for the team, as in going support or hatever and i dont care if i dont have a 6:1 k:d every game.

    I stack my games with my mates but i allways make games requiering more then 1600-1650 psr and the games turnes out pretty well every game, and its almsot often balanced 50/50 because i dont get any psr point if not.

    remove the other stats imo they are not needed, only psr, in loss ratio and leave percentage.

  16. #16
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    Make the K;D Ratio private and the system, without any more tweaks, works.

    Complaining about a 1700 team playing a 1400 team means you don't understand how the system works. Don't remember the actual values but either the difference is so big the higher team gets 0 while risking to lose 30-40 or they get 1 and stand to lose 35ish. If you don't think you'd win 1 in 35 games perhaps you should play someone else? Either way it has nothing to do with PSR and everything to do with who you choose to play.

    Matchmaking will make this problem go away.

    Once again, K;D ratio making newbs do stupid stuff thinking they're playing unreal tournament instead of a team game is the only flaw of the current system.

  17. #17
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    If you haven't noticed yet the point system is the whole story of any successful mmo/rpg game out there, its what attracts the crowd mainly, and with sane logic its ok to assume that with the removal of PSR or stat system, a lot less people would play this game, any game aswell.

  18. #18
    No.

    Why make a system that fundamentally works, and then delete it because people complain because they aren't used to it. Stats are in sports work fine, they generally aren't checked in sports because people realise they don't mean a lot, it's how the player and his/her qualities such as teamplay, experience etc interact. In time, when the 'unique' aspect of stats is diminshed, people will care less.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doix View Post
    No.

    Why make a system that fundamentally works, and then delete it because people complain because they aren't used to it. Stats are in sports work fine, they generally aren't checked in sports because people realise they don't mean a lot, it's how the player and his/her qualities such as teamplay, experience etc interact. In time, when the 'unique' aspect of stats is diminshed, people will care less.

    This is a moot point, in sports people aren't as interested in stats because they have to go out of their way, in a game where it's a right click- view away, people will kick them or move them to the other team for easy victories.


    On another note, the locks on the players do tell you who is friends usually because the leader will lock their friends in before they shuffle the rest of the teams.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo View Post
    Make the K;D Ratio private and the system, without any more tweaks, works.

    Complaining about a 1700 team playing a 1400 team means you don't understand how the system works. Don't remember the actual values but either the difference is so big the higher team gets 0 while risking to lose 30-40 or they get 1 and stand to lose 35ish. If you don't think you'd win 1 in 35 games perhaps you should play someone else? Either way it has nothing to do with PSR and everything to do with who you choose to play.

    Matchmaking will make this problem go away.

    Once again, K;D ratio making newbs do stupid stuff thinking they're playing unreal tournament instead of a team game is the only flaw of the current system.

    I realize how the system works, and before when Doix said that the system works FUNDEMENTALLY, I agree. But it doesn't change the fact that generally the people with higher pub star ratings are going to have more skill. Of course there is going to be the obscure people who just got lucky and got put on good teams, but more often then not it will still mean that they probably have some sort of moderate skill level to go with their rating.

    It's easier for people with higher ratings/kd to not agree with this. But I think it's undeniable that having lower of these stats makes it harder to get games going, and creates a prejudice against players who may have just been unlucky with teams.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kwaurtz View Post
    No, I don't even have that great of stats, and I still go against this. I find pub stomps boring to be on the stompping side and not the stomped, this is why I'll leave the team of my friends to join hellbourne or auto balance it, and still win. Quit your *****ing about stats. The game is MEANT to be competitive, stats and psr just add to that.

    This isn't me *****ing about stats, this is me presenting an idea that I felt needed discussion, but people like you take this for *****ing and blatantly dismiss it without thinking of what might actually be good about doing this or not.

    In your case you find it boring to be on the stomping side, that's great, I applaud you. But if others have a high ps ratio already, it will be hard to raise it further, so what is next? Getting their KB up, and guess what helps to do that? Oh I don't know, maybe pub stomping?

    I"m glad that you are one of the few who doesn't like to do that though, and I also get that the game is meant to be competitive, hence the TEAMS VS TEAMS, there has to be a loser. But there is no reason that the game couldn't retain it's highly competitive edge whilst also changing the PSR/Stats systems in place in favor of something that doesn't get people booted from game lobbies because of their win/loss ratio, or because their k/d is low, and I've already presented a few ideas that you probably haven't even read that you might actually like, but never even took the time to respond to directly, but instead dismissed it all and called it *****ing.



    Quote Originally Posted by Godlyke View Post
    Terrible idea, i here hello kitty fantasy island has less compitition you should try it
    Wow really? REALLY? I didn't mention anything about hating the competitive edge of this game, in fact it should be known that I feel quite the opposite. I wouldn't be playing the game trying to help make as good as it can be if I didn't like the core idea. Secondly, way to dismiss it completely w/out giving any good reasons or furthering the discussion, but instead trying for the all too familiar internet coupe de grace by attempting to insult me with your sub par spelling skills.



    Quote Originally Posted by NullDragon View Post
    I WOULD suggest, however, that the countdown on game start is increased a little. Giving people more time to leave if they don't like the unbalanced teams. Also a system to make auto balance more easily respect friends that want to be together, perhaps both friends needing to tag each other as friends.
    This seems like a generally good idea, it would make knowing what your really up against pretty well known before the match begins. So you could see if it's only two friends or a whole team.

    I agree with your other comment as well about having something to indicate on the screen what type of player is joining, but at this point the PSR system is too unforgiving. People try to stack teams with higher PSR, people will kick others wilth low PSR with no indications of what would be legit for the game or not, or even hosts will repeatedly kick until higher PSR's join their team so they think they have a much better chance at winning.
    I know that the PSR isn't a "set in stone" indication of skill level, but it is generally going to be more dependable as time progresses and people hover around what will probably be their level of skill ( who knows what the PSR assigned to that will be.) So when team-stacked high PSR goes against a low, and it reads like 80 to 20 percent, and you play that game, I don't think that it's insane for me to think that the skill level of those players is PROBABLY higher most likely guaranteeing them a victory ( it might not be easy for them, but still, probably a win ). Oh, and I understand that if this was the case you'd lose less PSR because you gave it a try, but you know what sucks, your K/D will probably tank if you repeatedly play matches like that, and for all those posters like having stats, this becomes a problem for them, and they are probably the same people who would probably like to stack a team even if it means just gaining a bit of psr and k/d, cause hey, it's win/win in most cases for them.
    Last edited by TFG65; 08-09-2009 at 08:06 PM.

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