Thread: Scout vs. Night Hound

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  1. #1
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    Scout vs. Night Hound

    I didn't want to post this over at General Beta, because you know, it's General Beta.

    We all know the potential of to wreck games (in-fact, I rate him as the second highest game breaking hero after ), but I was thinking about his counterpart:

    I've never seen a well played who wasn't fed because:

    • He stole kills from his team
    • He actually legitimately farmed up his items
    • Didn't wait for you to die trying to kill the hero and sat right next to him the whole fight, and then when you died while the enemy was in red, backstabbed him for the kill


    Now, I know we've had the luxury of seeing a pro level play (thanks Chu`) and hence have a reference as to how to play him. But what about ? Does he have any potential to play in a pro-level/non-retarded game?

    ---

    I personally hate the hero, to be honest. I find him to be the worst of the bottom-feeders there are in the game. Not a single I've come across has been a team player; unlike who can actually open pretty well with his (short cooldown) ultimate on the squishy, take him down to half health immediately and putting him on the defensive. Of course, my opinion is biased since I can play a wicked but I wouldn't touch with a metre long pole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anakha View Post
    ... HoN competitive scene for the most part is a cesspool of uncreative circlejerkers that are unable to think outside of the box or think critically about item acquisitions. They are mostly led like sheep by the few innovators within the scene, which the sheep then follow blindly since they all play against each other constantly and thus have trouble developing any kind of distinctly different playstyle, since they all get sucked into trying to copy the "best" strat at any given time.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by P41nkill3r View Post
    Now, I know we've had the luxury of seeing a pro level play (thanks Chu`)
    [4DR]HighwayStar was the first to play scout on a "pro" level, not Chu`...

    OT I don't really have anything to say, as I don't play high tier games, and have very little experience with both nh and scout.
    Now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesewipe View Post
    [4DR]HighwayStar was the first to play scout on a "pro" level, not Chu`...

    OT I don't really have anything to say, as I don't play high tier games, and have very little experience with both nh and scout.
    I know HighwayStar did, but okay, let me rephrase that: a game-making "pro" level . The 4DR game got over when killed the chicken and took the :ShrunkenHead:. Not much of a game, I'd say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anakha View Post
    ... HoN competitive scene for the most part is a cesspool of uncreative circlejerkers that are unable to think outside of the box or think critically about item acquisitions. They are mostly led like sheep by the few innovators within the scene, which the sheep then follow blindly since they all play against each other constantly and thus have trouble developing any kind of distinctly different playstyle, since they all get sucked into trying to copy the "best" strat at any given time.

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    night hound has a huge slow + silence aoe from level one. That's his main teamfight ability. During teamfights he should wait for the initiator to charge in, then pounce in and lay down his smokebomb. The key is that the team doesn't target him so that he can autoattack their backs for huge damage. He can also chase very well to clean up after fights especially after getting a firebrand for extra movespeed.

    Finally with a hatchet and backstab he can DESTROY creep waves from very early on and thus can get farmed very quickly if he isn't be constantly ganked.

  5. #5
    Most of the games I play with end up in winning. NH has an AoE Silence/Slow/Evation bomb which, if used correctly, can turn the tide of battle.

    Remember to use the smoke bomb as 2nd initiation in a teamfight, not as first initiation because then you will fail.

    Also, your pounce synchronizes with your backstab, and if you have riftshards you can get a double crit. With max pounce and backstab and riftshards, you have a 5 sec cd nuke which does 350 or 700 damage. Great for softening them up.

    is more a teamplayer then imho, but then again I've never ever ever played scout, but a did play lots of .

    My setup is as follow:
    2x minor totem
    1x power supply recipe
    2x tango

    Lvl 1-6
    Buy Iron shield from the sideshop, then mana battery.
    Next get your boots, ghost marchers are best.
    Some ppl say you should use steamboots. Steamboots only add 20 dmg with lvl 4 backstab, ghost marchers give 24 dmg... ow yeah and unitwalking.

    Next go for firebrand. It adds 30 damage, but you get it for the MS mostly. When you have this the game will end really soon.

    Next get lvl 4 riftshards. When you have this your are invicible, and the game should be over now.

    If the game is still going, I create frostburn for more hp and even more MS. The slow is also nice. I really love this item since it just increases your survivability and overall presence by a lot.

    Game still going? Symbol of Rage... or Wingbow ofc...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EARHOLE View Post
    Most of the games I play with end up in winning. NH has an AoE Silence/Slow/Evation bomb which, if used correctly, can turn the tide of battle.

    Remember to use the smoke bomb as 2nd initiation in a teamfight, not as first initiation because then you will fail.

    Also, your pounce synchronizes with your backstab, and if you have riftshards you can get a double crit. With max pounce and backstab and riftshards, you have a 5 sec cd nuke which does 350 or 700 damage. Great for softening them up.

    is more a teamplayer then imho, but then again I've never ever ever played scout, but a did play lots of .

    My setup is as follow:
    2x minor totem
    1x power supply recipe
    2x tango

    Lvl 1-6
    Buy Iron shield from the sideshop, then mana battery.
    Next get your boots, ghost marchers are best.
    Some ppl say you should use steamboots. Steamboots only add 20 dmg with lvl 4 backstab, ghost marchers give 24 dmg... ow yeah and unitwalking.

    Next go for firebrand. It adds 30 damage, but you get it for the MS mostly. When you have this the game will end really soon.

    Next get lvl 4 riftshards. When you have this your are invicible, and the game should be over now.

    If the game is still going, I create frostburn for more hp and even more MS. The slow is also nice. I really love this item since it just increases your survivability and overall presence by a lot.

    Game still going? Symbol of Rage... or Wingbow ofc...
    Or just link him the guide you got this build from.
    Also why do you even compare 2 so different heroes only because they both have invis in common.
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Ryodakun
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    Free courier? Why not free wards? Why not free wingbow!?
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    Free Tibet please.

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    Scout is much more versatile hero,and much more useful team-wise in every aspect.Anything Night Hound can do,Scout can do better.A good Scout is absolutely devastating.

    Scout:
    Maximum,and I mean maximum map control through eyes and wards
    Global aoe silence that is like NH's,just better because it can't be dispelled by moving lol
    Insta invis that has great buffs,unitwalking,alot of ms and attack speed,where NH has fading time,and nothing else on his invis.And that's his ult,where Scout's ult drops an int support/nuker to 50% in 1,5secs.
    Can farm alot better if he gets runed axe,where it is useless on NH.No,NH cant drop creepwaves fast.Backstab means u have to be BEHIND.

    Scout is just better overall.

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    Krakenpool + Night Hound cloud = profit.

  9. #9
    Scout is a hard carry with awesome map control, and is nigh impossible to gank due to eyes + vanish.
    He's a farming machine, but he can also help in team fights with silence + nuke/slow

    Nighthound can....killsteal?
    Wow awesome...not.

  10. #10
    You missed the 3rd carry hero who also silences.

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    's detonate is awesome. you can activate it even while disabled to break channeled abilities.

  12. #12
    These guys are really only useful when they are primarily the only carry hero and they have 4 support / dps ganking heroes.
    Mid Game scout only deals about 13-15% of the teams' damage in team fights if that (that seems high).
    You have your heroes like Magmus / Plague Rider who pretty much carry to late game with their sick ass ults.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelillidan View Post
    These guys are really only useful when they are primarily the only carry hero and they have 4 support / dps ganking heroes.
    Mid Game scout only deals about 13-15% of the teams' damage in team fights if that (that seems high).
    You have your heroes like Magmus / Plague Rider who pretty much carry to late game with their sick ass ults.
    No, no, and no. My arguments below are for (because I've made my views about pretty clear in my OP)

    1/3. You need good turtling/defensive heroes who can prevent the towers from going down and allow to get farmed. Yes, and fall in that category, but that wasn't the point you were making. Edit - Also, an early-mid game carry like help focus on his farming as well.

    2. Mid-Late game, a good always picks off the squishiest (or someone) by ganking the forest or something, to tilt the team's fight towards his team's favour. Then it doesn't really matter who deals the most damage as long as the team wins. But has massive burst DPS whenever he fights with his vanish/flurry (every 6 seconds, you get to do 4*250+ damage in under a second), while he can open for his team by using his ultimate to slow a hero and put him on the defensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuukun View Post
    Also why do you even compare 2 so different heroes only because they both have invis in common.
    Because they have both similar play styles. Sneak in > Pick off heroes > Stealth away. But if the player is good, goes beyond that with his warding, etc. You can't say that for .
    Last edited by P41nkill3r; 03-24-2010 at 11:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anakha View Post
    ... HoN competitive scene for the most part is a cesspool of uncreative circlejerkers that are unable to think outside of the box or think critically about item acquisitions. They are mostly led like sheep by the few innovators within the scene, which the sheep then follow blindly since they all play against each other constantly and thus have trouble developing any kind of distinctly different playstyle, since they all get sucked into trying to copy the "best" strat at any given time.

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    Lineups have to cater to Scout though, not as much as Dark Lady, but its still high up there on requirements. Nighthound is useful past level 6, where he is not only able to scout out enemies, but also slow/silence them.

    If Scout doesn't do well early on, he's bound to have a terrible end game, or he'll force his lineup to do without him. Even with the option to silence an area, he's very limited. This doesn't mean of course that he isn't powerful; he's a freaking beast under the right circumstances. But it's just that he needs a lot of things to fall into place.

    Nighthound has more power to pick off low-health/squishy heroes that are alone than Scout. It's too common to see a Scout sneak up, silence the hero, flurry and then try to ult. It's a near perfect combo, except for the fact that Scout needs to be able to see them to get the ult off. So terribly easy to juke into the fog.

  15. #15
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    NH greatest downfall is that his ULT is countered by three different items, whereas scout still has his MS boost and attack boost from invis. NH has the worst ult in the game but has an amazing aoe silence/slow/evasion. scout is the better hero hands down.


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    Slience - hard to avoid

    Slience - walk out from smoke

  18. #18
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    I wanted to necro this thread because now that phe`V has shown us a in competitive play (and actually wiped the floor with WHP/x6/LOAD/whatever name they have this week), what do people think about 's potential?

    We know Kaution's take on it, that won't be any more viable/picked than he was before the buffs. I still think he's just a kill-steal machine in pubs (match IDs to prove me wrong are welcome), but personally, phe`V's was poetic to watch.

    (Statistically, against WHP did better than against fiVe)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anakha View Post
    ... HoN competitive scene for the most part is a cesspool of uncreative circlejerkers that are unable to think outside of the box or think critically about item acquisitions. They are mostly led like sheep by the few innovators within the scene, which the sheep then follow blindly since they all play against each other constantly and thus have trouble developing any kind of distinctly different playstyle, since they all get sucked into trying to copy the "best" strat at any given time.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by EARHOLE View Post
    My setup is as follow:
    2x minor totem
    1x power supply recipe
    2x tango
    You should get a courier instead of a Power Supply recipe.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalEdwrd View Post
    You should get a courier instead of a Power Supply recipe.
    NH should only get a courier if nobody else does. And then not share because the supports are *****es :<

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