This... shouldn't happen

[sunnyside1]

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[Drasha]

ss has a long cast time, magums has a channel time. interrupting some one during their cast time just means they have to reset it interrupting during a channel means the ability stops.

[Akavir]

That's because those skills have a channeling time, which is different than a simple cast time. The difference lies in that ability with a channeling time has already gone off by the time it was interrupted, but an ability like soulstealer's ult does NOT fire until the cast time is completed thus it does not go on cooldown.

[SaF1]

SS's ult isn't a channel. It's just a cast time.

[[S2]Fielding]

Magmus' ult is channeling. Part of his balance is that he has to carefully cast his ult from a distance to make sure it doesn't get wasted.

Soulstealer on the other hand doesn't have that draw back. It's not channeling, it's just a long delay before it actually casts. Almost any spell in the game can be interrupted before it actually casts. Soulstealer's ult just has a longer-than-normal cast time.

[WSLaFleur]

Magmus' ult is channeling. Part of his balance is that he has to carefully cast his ult from a distance to make sure it doesn't get wasted.

Soulstealer on the other hand doesn't have that draw back. It's not channeling, it's just a long delay before it actually casts. Almost any spell in the game can be interrupted before it actually casts. Soulstealer's ult just has a longer-than-normal cast time.

Question: Is there a set of rules for how long something has to be casting for before we consider it 'channeling'?

Why is it that Scout's Ult is channeled yet the channel can be cancelled freely.

Also, why is it that Scout's Electric Eyes go through magic immunity.

Now that you've given me the technicalities of why the skill functions this way, why don't we discuss whether or not it should be allowed to stay that way.

[[S2]ElementUser]

Question: Is there a set of rules for how long something has to be casting for before we consider it 'channeling'?

None at all, the code simply has to have "channeltime" and "ischanneling=true".

Scout is only an exception because of the "defer" codelines I mentioned.

Now that you've given me the technicalities of why the skill functions this way, why don't we discuss whether or not it should be allowed to stay that way.

No, that belongs in the Beta Client issues thread in General Beta: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=75627

That, or take it to Balance (if the moderators over there approve it). The third option is to convince an S2 dev to post in this thread; I would try IRC for that.

[Drasha]

Question: Is there a set of rules for how long something has to be casting for before we consider it 'channeling'?

The reason its channeled vs cast is a matter of balance. Things like tempest ult can be canceled because it would be way to strong if it didn't require channeling.

Now that you've given me the technicalities of why the skill functions this way, why don't we discuss whether or not it should be allowed to stay that way.

Staying that way is a balance matter and should be brought up in the balance section.

[[LC]pk_thunder]

Magmus' ult is channeling. Part of his balance is that he has to carefully cast his ult from a distance to make sure it doesn't get wasted.

Soulstealer on the other hand doesn't have that draw back. It's not channeling, it's just a long delay before it actually casts. Almost any spell in the game can be interrupted before it actually casts. Soulstealer's ult just has a longer-than-normal cast time.

magmus seems to have the advantage, because he can cast away and jump in with surprise

ss has to actually wait for the cast time, which in that time he could be stun/disrupted.

[Kitsunesama]

magmus seems to have the advantage, because he can cast away and jump in with surprise

ss has to actually wait for the cast time, which in that time he could be stun/disrupted.

Well, two issues:

1.) magmus has to have the portal key, and he misses at least one wave of damage if he channels the ult then ports in.

2.) if soul stealer is interupted during his cast, he can always recast it, while this is not true for magmus

[Harmonium]

interrupting during a skill's CAST TIME will allow the player to spam it to their heart's content until it finally casts. interrupting a skill during CHANNEL TIME will put it on cd.

and if you had any idea how soul burst worked you would know there's no channel time on it.

[RogerDodger]

Why is it that Scout's Ult is channeled yet the channel can be cancelled freely.

Also, why is it that Scout's Electric Eyes go through magic immunity.

[[S2]ElementUser]

Why is it that Scout's Ult is channeled yet the channel can be cancelled freely.

Also, why is it that Scout's Electric Eyes go through magic immunity.

Mechanically speaking, here's the ability.entity on Marksman Shot:

<ability
    name="Ability_Scout4"

    icon="icon.tga"
    statuseffecttooltip="State_Scout_Ability4_Slow"
    
    anim="ability_4channel"
    casttime="300"
    castactiontime="300"
    channeltime="2250,1750,1250"

    maxlevel="3"
    requiredlevel="6,11,16"

    actiontype="target_entity"
    casteffecttype="SuperiorMagic"
    targetscheme="nonboss_visible_enemy_units"
    ischanneling="true"
    deferchannelcost="true"
    deferchannelimpact="true"
    
    manacost="125,175,250"
    cooldowntime="50000,40000,30000"
    
    range="1500,2000,2500"
>
    <onchannelstart>
        <applystate name="State_Scout_Ability4" duration="2250,1750,1250" ischannel="true" />
        <applystate name="Self_State_Scout_Ability4"  target="source_entity" ischannel="true"/>
    </onchannelstart>
    
    <onchannelend>
        <spawnprojectile name="Projectile_Scout_Ability4" source="source_entity" offset="0 0 80" target="target_entity" noresponse="true" />
        <playeffect effect="effects/fire.effect" source="source_entity"/>
        <expirestate name="State_Scout_Ability1" target="source_entity" /> 
    </onchannelend>
    
    <onimpact />
</ability>

So I'm guessing it's those 2 lines highlighted in light-blue that does this to Scout - they do not appear in Magmus' ultimate, Glacius' ultimate, etc.

So the deferchannelcost & deferchannelimpact makes it behave like Soulstealer's ultimate (ie, a lengthened cast time) and makes the cooldown & mana cost take place at the end of the channel.

Scout's Electric Eyes' silence effect go through Magic Immunity because the target type for Detonate is True.

@OP: Why did you edit your post -.-

[sunnyside1]

Not sure I completely agree with that. Whatever. Your game.

[hesus321]

this ^ is win

[Kitsunesama]

In a traditional sense, channeling = effect happens as the entity continues to focus on maintaining the effect, while a cast = effect happens after the entity finishes focusing.

Channeling usually implies that once the channel has started, a reuse timer has already been applied, while a casting ability only applies the reuse timer after the effect has been triggered.

Scout, for example, is "casting" his marksmen's shot, as he takes aim and fires. Glacius, on the other hand, gains an immediate effect from his ultimate as soon as he presses it, and continues to maintain this effect until he is interrupted or the channel time is complete.


Magmus is the weird outlier as he must channel his ultimate before it has any effect at all. Honestly, it would make more logical sense if magmus could attempt to "recast" his ultimate if it was interupted, but I understand why this is not so given the power of his ability.