+Atk Speed and +%Atk Speed

[ma5]

There's a difference last time I checked.

I noticed items (which are also largely less used in HON than in DotA) like Wingbow and Insanitarius give only +attack speed, where as in DotA they gave +% attack speed.

Typo or flaw?

[[S2]ElementUser]

No difference at all, HoN made the change to make it less confusing.

On the other hand, Frostwolf Skull ACTUALLY gives a -% modifier to attack speed, rather than a linear drop.

[ma5]

That confuses me, so if Frostwolf is different because it's -%, doesn't that mean there'd be differences for +% attack speed over +flat attack speed?

Such as, shouldn't Wingbow give a non-linear increase to atk speed?

[InsaneChef]

doesnt blacksmith give % too?

[[H3LP]pakoito]

doesnt blacksmith give % too?

Niet, +AS.


@OP: 50AS ~ some % speed that equals dota's one. It happened the same than with armor, it adds, it doesn't stack.

[[S2]ElementUser]

That confuses me, so if Frostwolf is different because it's -%, doesn't that mean there'd be differences for +% attack speed over +flat attack speed?

Such as, shouldn't Wingbow give a non-linear increase to atk speed?

S2 purposely made Frostwolf a % Attack Speed modifier rather than a linear one to boost its viability and power. It's 1 of the only things that has a % Attack Speed modifier in the game at this time (instead of a linear modifier).

The only other thing AFAIK is Chronos' Chronofield which also gives a % Decrease to Attack Speed.

Other than those 2 things, everything else that affects Attack Speed does so in a linear fashion.

[[Anon]No]

That confuses me, so if Frostwolf is different because it's -%, doesn't that mean there'd be differences for +% attack speed over +flat attack speed?

Such as, shouldn't Wingbow give a non-linear increase to atk speed?

I think Icefrog has just mixed it up a little and that the %s still are flat values in HoN. However, it would be nice to see a %+AS item now that we have the new Frostwolf.

[[S2]ElementUser]

In DotA, ALL things were linear modifiers for Attack Speed. That's why it's confusing people.

HoN changed the tooltip to make it less confusing though.

Also moved to Mechanics for your convenience against trolls/spammers.

[[Anon]No]

In DotA, ALL things were linear modifiers for Attack Speed. That's why it's confusing people.

I think the confusing part in DotA is that on some items it states "xx+ Attack Speed" while on others it says "xx%+ Attack Speed" while they were all, as you said, linear.

[ma5]

^yeah, I see.

Every time I think I'm on to something.. Element shuts me down, sigh.

[Jotain]

In DotA, ALL things were linear modifiers for Attack Speed. That's why it's confusing people.

HoN changed the tooltip to make it less confusing though.

Icefrog changed this on some items too (hyperstone and MoM for example), its just harder for him when he has to rewrite huge amout of tooltips

[[S2]ElementUser]

^yeah, I see.

Every time I think I'm on to something.. Element shuts me down, sigh.

That's not what I'm trying to do though, I'm only trying to say what is correct & separate that from the misconceptions/incorrect information.

Icefrog changed this on some items too (hyperstone and MoM for example), its just harder for him when he has to rewrite huge amout of tooltips

Yeah I guess he did & it would be a lot of work to do so, which is why the confusion is still present.

[LegoPirate]

its cause the base attackspeed is 100, and the attackspeed bonus's are applied to the base, not the whole, therefore % was accurate, was just misleading if you didnt realize it was only applying to the base AS.

the change to no % was done to make it clearer

[[TL]Bishness]

So why do we see this:

On the other hand, Frostwolf Skull ACTUALLY gives a -% modifier to attack speed, rather than a linear drop.

-rather- implies there's a difference between the two, and ElementUser implies there was an actual change besides in the tooltip

[Malle1]

The difference is in notation more than anything else.

What was labelled as AS% (e.g. 20% attack speed) in DotA is equivalent to what is just labelled AS here (e.g. 20 attack speed). All these forms of attack speed add a set amount of attack speed to your total attack speed (e.g. 100 base attack speed, +15 attack speed, +25 attack speed and -20 attack speed: 100 + 15 + 20 - 20 = 120 total attack speed).

Frostwolf's skull however (presuming Element is correct; I cannot double check right now) doesn't subtract a set amount of attack speed, but a set fraction of the target's total attack speed before the reduction. (e.g. 20% attack speed slow, base 100 attack speed, +15 attack speed, +25 attack speed: (100+15+25)*(1-0.20) = 112 total attack speed).

[A`nub`is]

Good thread; we learned that "+atk speed" and "+% atk speed" are the same (well... I already knew this). And we also learn that "+%atk speed" is not the same in case of Frostwulf's.

Now we only need to find a poor dev soul, that changes all descriptions ingame to +atk speed (with exception of frostwulfs). PS: That makes Frostwulfs so much stronger compared to Frostburn than we all thought

[[S2]ElementUser]

Now we only need to find a poor dev soul, that changes all descriptions ingame to +atk speed (with exception of frostwulfs). PS: That makes Frostwulfs so much stronger compared to Frostburn than we all thought

That's DotA you're talking about, it's fine in HoN

Frostwolf's skull however (presuming Element is correct; I cannot double check right now) doesn't subtract a set amount of attack speed, but a set fraction of the target's total attack speed. (e.g. 15% attack speed slow, base 100 attack speed, +15 attack speed, +20 attack speed: (100+15+20)*(1-0.15) = 114.75).

Yes, but Frostwolf Skull slows attack speed by 20% and not 15%; but I know you're using 15% as an example

[Malle1]

That's DotA you're talking about, it's fine in HoN



Yes, but Frostwolf Skull slows attack speed by 20% and not 15%; but I know you're using 15% as an example

I'll change the example, to avoid any confusion

[xbayrockx]

It sounds like it is actually a percentage increase seeing as though there's no guarantee that the base attack speed will be 100.

[LegoPirate]

every heros base attack speed is 100.