Talisman of Copy

[kimimaru`]

Talisman of Copy


This talisman was passed down from generations, capable of copying skills of enemy heroes.

What does the item do?
- This item copies the skill of any enemy hero, except for it's ultimate/passive/channeling/item skills. It can either copy Physical or Magical skills.

How does it work?
- Whenever the item is activated, it stores the first skill of an enemy hero that it uses against the user.

For example:
- The user activated the item. Witch Slayer uses his "graveyard" and hit's the user. After taking the hit, the graveyard is then stored inside the item and can be used by the user whenever he wants to use it.

The Talisman cannot store:

• Channeling Skills
• Passive Skills
• Ultimate Skills
• Item Skills (Codex, Sheep stick, etc.)

Damage:
- The stored skill damages 60%/70%/80% of the damage of the copied skill

For example:

The skill stored is "Graveyard Level 2, damage = 130", when the user uses the stored skill, it's damage will be 78. (60% of 130 = 78 / 70% of 130 = 91 / 80% of 130 = 104)

Duration: 10/12/15 seconds (When waiting for the first skill it takes)

Cool down: 35 seconds (After the stored skill is used)

Mana Cost: The stored skill takes 60%/70%/80% of the mana of the copied skill.

For example:

The skill stored is "Graveyard Level 2, Mana Cost = 120", when the user uses the stored skill, it's mana cost will be 72. (60% of 120 = 72 / 70% of 120 = 84 / 80% of 120 = 96)

Item Requirements:
(1st suggested item requirements)

Suggestion for recipe:

1 power supply 500 g
1 ring of the teacher 500 g
1 Steam staff 900 g
and recipe for 600 g

which is 2500 for first level, 3100 for second level and 3700 for final level.

(Please include a recipe, because this item can be upgraded 2 times, 1st upgrade/when bought = 60% 2nd upgrade/when bought another recipe = 70% 3rd upgrade/when bought another recipe = 80%).

Graphics:
- I am confused of which is better, the first or the second idea. Well, here it is.

I. First Idea
- It WILL look like the skill it copied except, the copied skill will look transparent (Looks like, Tauren Chieftain's "Ancestral Spirit" in DOTA).

- The skill just comes out instantly, the hero with the item does not need to "act" it. I mean, it would look weird if you see pebbles "Acting+Doing" (As in, raising his hand toward his head) a Graveyard.

II. Second Idea
- When the stored skill is activated, the Hero who owns the "stored skill" (in this case, Witch Slayer owns graveyard) will appear in front of the one using the talisman of copy and casting the skill. But, the hero that appears will still look transparent, along with his skill. (Looks like, Tauren Chieftain's "Ancestral Spirit" in DOTA). And it also casts the skill 2X faster.

So which is better, the first one, or the second one? @.@

Note: The copied skill still does the same effect as the original skill.

[[LFW]KotSA]

N1, i approve this!
Suggestion for recipe:

1 power supply 500 g
1 ring of the teacher 500 g
1 Steam staff 900 g
and recipe for 600 g

which is 2500 for first level, 3100 for second level and 3700 for final level.

[kimimaru`]

N1, i approve this!
Suggestion for recipe:

1 power supply 500 g
1 ring of the teacher 500 g
1 Steam staff 900 g
and recipe for 600 g

which is 2500 for first level, 3100 for second level and 3700 for final level.

Thanks!

I'll use your suggestion for the mean time.

[Liebli]

Sound cool. And so it wouldn't be too overpowered it could have a limited amount of charges - if so only one. So you sort of "fill" it like a flask, then use it a couple of times with the spell getting a tad weaker every time and then eventually have to refill it.

[[LoCG]Electrician]

instead of cheaper mana cost, the manacost to use the skill should be double, and the cooldown should be increased too (double the cooldown of the skill you use + something )

otherwise heroes can just walk around with 5 skills , with one of them being a cheaper version of another heroes stun letting them stun another hero for god knows how long..

this could get really nasty, you might want to put a cooldown on buying the recipe, like puzzle box, once every 20 minutes or so...

[[CCYA]MillRock]

i agree with timer on recipe and the same if not greater mana cost than the original, one thing i'm not clear on, once you have a skill stored can you get rid of it and wait for a new ability to be cast on you or does it change every time an ability is cast on you or can't it be changed or is it only for one use of the ability? still like the basic idea could help the long term usefulness of int heroes a lot more

[[GmoH]Necrophagist]

Nice one, voted yes, but I would expect that functionality to get implemented as a hero ability :P

[FiddleStiX]

Voted T-Up, but what other passive bonuses will this item have?
Maybe something like 0.65/0.80/0.95 mana regen and 14/17/20 attack speed?

[kimimaru`]

Voted T-Up, but what other passive bonuses will this item have?
Maybe something like 0.65/0.80/0.95 mana regen and 14/17/20 attack speed?

I'll add that up later.

About the storing, you can only store one ability at a time so not to abuse it with 5 stun skills lol.

i agree with timer on recipe and the same if not greater mana cost than the original, one thing i'm not clear on, once you have a skill stored can you get rid of it and wait for a new ability to be cast on you or does it change every time an ability is cast on you or can't it be changed or is it only for one use of the ability? still like the basic idea could help the long term usefulness of int heroes a lot more

The only way you can get rid of it is to use it, wait for the cool down and then activate the item again. It can't be changed if it's still stored in the item even if you get hit lot's of times. As I've said, the only way to get rid of it is to use it.

May I ask, why should the mana cost increase? It's just 60%/70%/80% of the original skill's mana. Same as with the damage.

Thanks for voting yes guys.

[McNaab]

Hmm : / I don't rly like it actually, feels too un-hon u know, doesn't rly fit into the game concept or something like that

[[Pfct]OhBob]

Way too strong, and also seems to be pretty hard to code. Look to the item that copies neutral enemies' abilities' thread.

[kimimaru`]

Hmm : / I don't rly like it actually, feels too un-hon u know, doesn't rly fit into the game concept or something like that

Why? Please explain in detail.

Way too strong, and also seems to be pretty hard to code. Look to the item that copies neutral enemies' abilities' thread.

Too strong? Well, no it isn't really. It just deals 60%/70%/80% of the original damage of the copied skill.

[kimimaru`]

Bump~

[Duey]

Way too strong, and also seems to be pretty hard to code. Look to the item that copies neutral enemies' abilities' thread.

This

I like the item, but it seems to dance all over the place when it comes to being overpowered or not (more often OP than not OP i'd say). It also seems like a coding nightmare, it would have to be able to store 100's of NEW spells to accommodate for the damage reductions and all.

Something along the lines of an item which has an active ability based on what spell was cast on you last makes sense. For example:

4 active ability possibilities

• Venom - DoT type spell, 100 Magic Damage over 5 seconds and -5% MS
• Ignite - raw damage nuke, 200 Magic Damage
• Freeze - slow and attack speed reduction, -25% MS and AS for 3 seconds
• Lightning - a stunning move, 50 magic damage and 2s stun

All have 500 range.

After being hit by a move that is associated with each type of spell, the active spell will be readied on the talisman of copy.

Spells that would activate Venom:
haunt
swarm
terrify
entangle
etc etc.

Spells that would activate Ignite:
cauterize (when taking damage from it of course)
pounce
blazing strike
silver bullet
etc etc.

Spells that would activate Freeze:
unholy shackles
taint soul
oakbolt (log throw)
morph
etc etc.

Spells that would activate Lightning:
comet
acid cocktail
stampede
hammer throw
etc etc.

Also there could be spells that have a % chance to active multiple spells
example:
dragonfire 50% Ignite / 50% Lightning
moon beam 50% Ignite / 50% Lightning
contagion 50% Ignite / 50% Freeze
and so forth and so on...

One last thing that would be cool would be to have a 5th spell that has maybe a 5% chance to activate off any spell:

• CHAOS - deals 1-400 true damage to the target (damage dealt would pop up like a crit).

As for the items required to make this in regards to the changes I've suggested, I think the items should be as follows:

++(recipe)
Ring of the Teacher - 500g
Beastheart - 1100g
Recipe - 1150g

Total - 2750g

Passive Bonuses
+12 Damage
+300 Max Health
+4 Armor
+0.8 Mana Regen
Active Spell

This would make the item targeted at casters and even tanks, the characters who will really be soaking the spells and therefore be able to use the active portion of this item most effectively and frequently.

Thats all for now, only other suggestion i could make for your suggestion would be to rename it to something like Chaos Circlet, if you use my ideas for it anyway, just makes the item name fit its design :P.

[SLASHER`]

Interesting idea. First thought, it should be only single target spells (like nullstone). Second thought, if this is going to work I would think that it should be a very (more) expensive item. If it was <4k+ it could show up in every game, and I don't like the idea of skill copying being a HoN standard. T-UP for the idea though.

[[Pute]Napaz]

total agree, the price isn't enough. just look at Dagon Which is i don't know the name in Hon, Dmg burst 400 dmg, and upgradable, its ****ing 1000+500+1350.
PLus everyone whould take take, Spam some stun, u'll see this item 2 or 3 time in game.

---> End of Hon

[DaPlaya]

Sound cool. And so it wouldn't be too overpowered it could have a limited amount of charges - if so only one. So you sort of "fill" it like a flask, then use it a couple of times with the spell getting a tad weaker every time and then eventually have to refill it.

I like this.

[[eSpr]babsa_90]

Unbalanced.
3.1k for a potential 3 second stun...
Should decrease all effects of the spell by 20% or something to that effect (this includes stun time). Examples:

1) Acid Cocktail: You are hit with acid cocktail (level 4). You are now able to cast it for 115 mana, stuns heroes for .8 seconds, and bounces 6 times.

Even though this 20% rule balances this item a lot more, i still think that it still has the potential to be imba, but hopefully with this rule we are taking a step in the right direction.

On second thought, i am just going to vote no on the concept. You can't balance this item, not with all the varying spells we have in HoN (i.e. valkyrie's javelin of light).

[Contingency]

Firstly I like the idea, it's a very interesting item that looks like it could add a lot of 'oh wow' situations and yet still requires skill to be used efficiently (Guessing what skill you'll capture)

One question first, Will there be an animation on the activation of the capture ability? e.g. will enemies be able to see you're going to capture an ability and use one that is less useful to you? i.e. witch slayer uses miniaturise instead of graveyard.

In my opinion the current item requirements don't feel right, Imo putting in a recipe item into a recipe item seems like a waste, also I think that ring of the teacher would be even more overpowered if it was used in a third, NON-supportive item, at the moment it's future use in only supportive items is what makes it a less-than perfect choice for carries that require some mana regen.

I'm guessing you have chosen not to list the additional stats on the item simply because you haven't fully decided on the components but that you will let it have some stats too?

Here are some suggestions I have:

+ + (recipe)

Icon of the goddess, 3300g (why? - Not currently used in anything other than sacrificial stone, extra health helps survive the spells you're absorbing, extra mana helps you cast them)

Mystic Vestments, 400g (why? - Not currently used in anything other than shamans headdress, magic armour furthers the items theme, it weakens the spell being absorbed allowing survival for actually casting the spell)

Recipe, 800g (Recipe costs are based on the usefulness/power of the effect, this is similar to nullstones, so I guessed this would be a good price)

This makes the total cost 4500g, for that price I'd have it do 100% damage however, because of the cost and because it would probably be much easier for S2.

I also prefer your second idea where you chose when to use it.