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Ok i know it's a known bug that keepers ult does not hit units in the fog. my question is how does the server sendyou sight data, is it only units directly in your vision or a little outside it? imho it should send the ult data to the enemy player and snare them anyway. just wondering how the vision mechanic works and what could be causing this annoying bug.
responses of "it's intended" will be ignored because you failed to properly read the tooltip.
It's not a bug, merely just how the skill functions. Treant Protector's Overgrowth did not hit fogged units or invisible units that you do not have true sight of in DotA as well.
I can't answer vision mechanics that are server-sided with 100% certainty, but I can guess that the instant the cast point of the skill is reached, the server takes whatever field of vision you have & whatever enemy units you have vision of in that frame and then targets appropriately using that information. Do recall that the fog updates every 0.4s.
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
yea i'm aware of the 400ms delay(which i'm not so happy about that change some patches ago), i was wondering if anyone knew exactly when you got sent data on enemies/units/whatever.Originally Posted by ElementUser
also about his ult, i dont really care how it worked in dota i'm guessing that was just an engine holdback, but it SHOULD hit everything around a 750 radius regardless of vision/invisibility.
Activation
Applies Root to enemies in radius around self for 3 / 4 / 5 seconds. Interrupts channeling spells.
Root Effects
Immobilized
Disarmed
Revealed
85 Magic damage per second.
this skill needs to be looked at for this reason alone. or they need to change the tooltip so it follows the logic of the skill already. the animation is also severely too small for the effected radius(a topic for a different forum venue though).
Last edited by KyleHunt; 02-08-2010 at 08:35 PM.
you better add call of the Valkyrie to your list of spells that don't hit heroes you can't see like root and is not mentioned in the tool tip maybe you can make up a list.
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<3 Robzor quote.What/how you think something SHOULD function has no bearing on Mechanics.
But really, that's for Other Suggestions or Balance. If you have any more Mechanics questions then feel free to post them here though.
Also the visual inconsistencies with the actual AoE is well known with a bunch of spells.
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
about the vision, in these 2 screenshots they are taken at the exact same moment, however the fog is turned on/off in each one of the ss's during the replay to show that the data wasnt being sent properly( i just found this out ). appears there is a bit of a delay, it looks like hero data is only sent when in your direct sight, it doesnt preload at all.
it's not my opinion. it's how it should work as written, the mechanic is broken. so stop acting like because the english is worded poorly that it's my opinion. it's written very clear. sorry if you don't see that.
also, my main discussion was on the vision data.
Last edited by KyleHunt; 02-08-2010 at 08:48 PM.
replays do not work the same a real game. You have all the information in replays you do not when other players and the server is involved.
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And the other way around sometimes keeper is in the fog for you and when he ults you just seem to be stooped till someone actually sees keeper and realizes that you were ultied, as like a ton of skills that do not reveal the caster from the fog, as I really think and suggest they should.
Match ID then, it's better if you post the ID & timestamps. Your screenshots are a bit blurry
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
the ss was taken in a replay, so how come hammerstorm isnt shown in with no fog one?
match id 25874814 it's about 9:10 minutes in i believe, i'm in another game right now so i cannot launch hon to view the replay. happened at bottom lane outpost as you can see in the ss's
Last edited by KyleHunt; 02-08-2010 at 09:09 PM.
Yeah you had vision of Hammerstorm after a few frames (2-3 frames? approximately) after you casted the ultimate. At the instant you casted the ultimate though, you did not have vision of Hammerstorm.
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
ok so it was delayed a bit in the ss. anyway, as the tooltip on the spell is written the mechanic for not hitting outside of vision is broken do you not agree? this is the mechanics forum so i dont think telling me to post something related to a mechanic should go in other suggestions/balance(what good is pointing out a broken mechanic goign to do for a balance forum, im not suggesting a spell buff/debuff). not only can this forum be used as a q&a, but to point out broken things without having to post int he main forum or in suggestions(it's not a suggestion, it's actually broken).
To be honest, it's simply a tooltip error. :/
If you suggest it in Suggestions/Balance, it is in fact actually buffing the skill no matter how you look at it (bug fix or not).
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
I guess I can understand not hitting Hammerstorm. But the tooltip clearly says the ult "REVEALS" which it clearly did not.
"Reveals" actually just means this:
Revealed: Can be seen/targeted as if you did not have invisibility.
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
well, it also effects night hound as well. him not being revealed in the 750 aoe is another mistake of the spell. it's not really a suggestion or a balance issue. it's simply not working as it should. i realize there may be buffs/debuffs by fixing the mechanic but isnt this not the venue to talk about mechanics? if not then i wont pry any further.
Last edited by KyleHunt; 02-08-2010 at 09:34 PM.
Because we do not know whether something is "intended" or not (and if discussion actually goes this far in Mechanics), I close the thread & ask S2 to make a response. They normally do so in a reasonable timeframe (max a few days).
Anyhow I do this to prevent unnecessary spam of the thread and to preserve the actual, official answer from S2. Rest assured they get notified about this
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Look for my highlighted text (important information) and grey text (interesting but not required information).
Root will probably hit everything in the fog next patch. Reveal just means for invis.
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