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Great guide, just wanted to thank you for writing a very well-written Devourer guide, keep up the good work.
I'm not entirely sure why I wrote that not-getting the kill part. My brain was getting way ahead of me on something else. Obviously wrong there.
The rest of the post you obviously were more interested in replying than actually understanding what you were replying to. Nearly the entire reply post is straw man rhetoric.
I'll leave it to you to figure out what I typed, just like when you had to re-read my devourer build post a few times to get it. I'll take responsibility for my writing style not being clear or something.
If you would like to have a constructive dialogue, please let me know via PM.
Last edited by bumbly; 03-19-2010 at 08:30 AM.
It felt like you were wording your entire post around the fact that Devourer did not get strength if he actually got the kill. That is why I worded it the way I did. Nothing seemed logical, and I was pointing out what didn't make sense.Originally Posted by bumbly
I don't really think we should -take it to PM's- as I'm not trying to make an enemy out of you. I'll admit I could have worded the post in a "nicer" way, but I am genuinely interested in how you make it all work. If you have replays I'd really like to see them.
Glad you liked it.
I find it near criminal to mention polly as a lane partner when elec fits that role eatleast as well with good move speed with a powerful slow or great movement with no slow to actually land the hold and a mana shield that can later in the game work with rot.
Of course, then you have 2 melee in a lane. Not the end of the world, but I'm sure the writer listed poly for that reason.
I'll admit Pollywog is the odd man among the laning partners, and perhaps there are better heroes that would belong on the list. The goal was to outline different roles that work well with devourer, not necessarily the heroes themselves.
An example would be Demented Shaman. He does well with virtually anyone, and Devourer is no exception to that. He brings a heal, a slow, and even damage mitigation. All things that Devourer can directly benefit from. The reason he isn't on the list though, is that it should be obvious on how he is useful to your laning phase.
Here's a quote directly from the laning phase section.
Devourer goes great with a very wide variety of heroes. You're basically looking for heroes that can pump the crap out of your early game farm. Anyone with a stun or high burst damage is immediately a good laning partner, and of course the major support heroes are natural buddies as well. I won't list heroes that fall into those categories. If they've got a stun/slow, they're great to lane with, period.
Very nice guide, it's easy to understand and va lot of work on it.
This guide, not only was it thorough and amazing, it completely changed my gameplay style with Devourer.
I prefer boots/rune start since I tend to get Decay first for the attempt at "First Blood" during the first rune camp. I did it multiple times since Decay is just so... overwhelmingly strong. Even if they were beating on me, being slowed by me, getting hit by me, and getting stunned/damaged by my teammates at the same time it like guarantees first blood. Being faster than them (thanks to my boots) allows me to block+chase them more effectively.
Keep up the good work man, I'm looking forward to how Devourer and your guide develops (Whom now is my favorite STR hero).
I am not a fan of boots first, and here's why:
Without boots, you have atrociously slow move speed (285). However, if you get an enemy into your rot, their move speed is reduced by 20%, from an average of 300 to 240. Even if they for some reason got boots and have 350 move speed, they're still lowered to 280, which is STILL slower than you.
Which is to say, if you're good enough with positioning, even if you go for rot at level 1 for first blood (at a rune, or coming out of the forest, for instance) the enemy will not escape, even if you don't have boots and they do.
Now, boots WILL let you get in more autoattacks as you chase someone. However, a crushing claw or some stats or regen will let you rot longer and hit harder. However, the lack of laning power that results from getting boots instead of a hatchet and/or some regen and stats is tough to overcome for a ganker who needs like 1.5k in farm to get off the ground.
So, I don't start with boots. If it gets you kills, by all means, go ahead. However, it's nice to have a mana potion so that if I should need more than one hook every 4 minutes, I can pull it off.
"There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people." -Howard Zinn
My Mod Request: International Cooperation Buttons.
I liked your guide but there are some points you need to emphasize.
1) Devourer is a hero that benefits greatly from outleveling his opponents. Yes, I realize you could say this about every hero, but devourer especially has a huge advantage when he is 1-2 levels higher than the guy he's decaying. Denying 20-25+ creeps in the laning phase does wonderful things.
2) Part of the appeal of the hero is a good devourer can identify who's bad on the opposing team and repeatedly kill them. This leads to a major team advantage late game.
3) I have been playing around with Devourer lately and getting staff of the master first and I must say it's lackluster. The most appealing thing about it is the extra mana from glowstone and wizards staff. Other than that, the heal on ult isn't too amazing. If at all possible you should get heart first, though granted this isn't always possible even for the best devourers.
After playing Devourer a lot (Using a few practice accounts to get used to him) I'm pretty confident I can answer your three points.
1) Yes, you can say that about every hero, but considering he's a melee hero with one of the lowest base speed he will have a tough time denying at the start because the regardless of which lane you're in (if you're in a 1700+ or just in general a high-tier game) you will always face some sort of counter to denies. If you're Hellbourne, the top safe lane will usually have a ranged babysitter that can deny well. The middle lane, most of the time it's a ranged hero or on occasion, Blood Hunter who denies/last hit better than Devourer since he can just silence you before you decay to scare him off and get last hits easily. The dangerous bottom lane... well you're closer to their tower so its pretty obvious why its more difficult to deny/last hit well. Essentially, in a game where everyone is decent, getting 20+ deny during early game is quite difficult.
2) Dude... this applies to every ganker/carry type hero in this game... Who doesn't exploit weaknesses? Not trying to talk you down or anything but a guide really isn't required to tell you to take advantage of an opponent's weakness in a game where the element of surprise is essential.
3) Getting the Staff is purely based on preference. I actually like getting the staff because it is quite handy. It doesn't just heal you for the damage it does, it also increases the damage it does (+75% of your str as magic dmg added into Om Nom Nom's dmg). Also, due to its short cooldown it is actually possible to use on non-hero targets to heal yourself so you don't have to run back to heal. If you get decent mana regen items (IE Nome's if your teammates are lazy), have Glacius on your team, or rarely cast Guttling Hook, your mana pool should generally be close to max anyways so just cast Om Nom Nom when you need a quick heal. 30s goes by very quickly in this game. Getting Behemoth's Heart is any tank's goal, but I've never found it necessary. Usually, due to my Cadaver Armor giving me roughly +40-50 str end game, I didn't need to get Behemoth's heart. My usual final items are a Bottle, Barrier Idol, SOTM, Helm of the Black Legion (Cheap and useful), Enhanced Marcher/Post Haste, and either Nome's or Portal Key depending on the game.
The thing with devourer is that he can be played in so many different ways. People are more efficient with different items due to how they play the hero. It's hard to really explain how I (personally) benefit more from SotM than I do from say behemoths. It all depends on how much experience you have with the hero and what you're good at doing. If it's more useful for you to go with behemoths, by all means - do it.
On your leveling comment, I definitely agree. That is why I recommended the solo mid lane. The problem is being able to actually pull it off without hurting your team. You have to play very aggressively, and make use of your levels while you still have the edge.
I tend to play Devo in a semi-carry type of way. I start out solo mid (in almost all of my games), I then kill mid a couple times, gank the lanes that need it, reach bloodbath status by 20 minute mark, and then proceed to kill their entire team by myself over and over until they concede. If I fail to make them concede before endgame, I usually lose the game.
And I'm sure that "strategy" doesn't work that well for many people. SotM is useful for me because I'm doing so well. It's an item that only works if you didn't really need it in the first place. It keeps you in the field longer, enhances your damage, and keeps that damage rising throughout the rest of the game. Hell, I don't even have time left to buy the thing in most of my games. I'll have won before it's even halfway completed.
That sums up my thoughts on SoTM pretty well.
Last edited by Delfofthebla; 04-02-2010 at 07:04 AM.
Nice... I like Devourer... But you hooked Zephyr more on '' good luck '' . Maybe he was going too the shop, or going back, but still nice guide!
WE ARE THA SNIPAZ
That's all blind hooking is. People can do a large number of things within the fog. The only thing you can do is predict their actions before they enter the fog, and hope that they don't do anything else while you can't see them.
Is it me, or is Pudge easier to play than Devourer? I hate how the animations in this game, while with the same variables, distorts your perception.
:P
It's hard for me to give a real answer due to how long it has been since I've played pudge. I personally have done better with Devourer than I ever have with pudge. This is largely due to the major changes that the "new environment" had on my skill level as a player.
I hear people say that he's harder than pudge, but I don't really see where that is coming from. You should have less delay in HoN than you did in DotA. Not to mention that S2 has buffed Devourer to be better than pudge, I can't count how many times I've actually hit people during the hooks return trip.
How do you guys deal with "blinking" characters? I recently had to lane vs Magebane and Wretched Hag. It was the most frustrating game ever. Ulti in que doesn't really work perfect, I could've had 10 extra kills if they didnt just blink away after I grabbed them.
There really isn't too much "you" can do about it to be honest. There needs to be some sort of initiation from one of your other team mates. The key is to do as much damage to them in the brief amount of time you can hold them (3 seconds + stun/disable from teammate)
If you can hook someone and have them stun during the hook travel time, that is your best bet. If you can't do that, you simply have to have a teammate stun them before you use your hook, so that you can devour them while they can't move. This is also more beneficial for you if you sometimes have trouble landing hooks. Their stun will allow you to easily hook and disable the blinking hero. There's no point however, if you don't think you have enough damage to kill them during your ult.
Other than that there is the "Blink Hooking" technique. Unfortunately it's probably one of the most difficult hooking techniques. Not even I am very good at it. I only manage to pull it off against Valkyrie.
Basically, you run at the enemy hero that can blink. They see you, and blink away in an attempt to run away. Before they actually blink, you have to fire a hook at the location you think they're going to blink to. Yup, you have to hook their target blink location before they even do it themselves. If you do it right they will blink right in front of your hook, and have no escape mechanism for a short time. If you can manage to pull it off that is.
Last edited by Delfofthebla; 04-05-2010 at 11:33 PM.
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