The thing is, turret can be easily killed by heroes that outrange it. So it is essentially free gold for them, so its somewhat situational (but by no means the most situational move out there). Again, puzzlebox is to capitalize on engineer's pushing powers (and it's just an amazing item in general). There are plenty of heroes that can carry better than engineer, which is why I choose not to build him like one.
that would definatly be overkill, what mana issues are you having that puzzlebox doesn't fix
Puzzlebox? None really - but puzzlebox is a pretty late-game item. This can be gotten pretty darn early and it'll let you use your abilities very often without really having to worry about running back. Later in the game you can pair it with a water bottle for some pretty impressive up-time.
Having a turret with infinite mana makes creeping incredibly easy too.
Ring of Sorcery + Ghost Marchers is a fantastic combo if you want to focus on putting as much pressure as possible on lanes.
Last edited by QQCucumber; 02-06-2010 at 03:03 PM.
Engi is an overpowered carry. For the past 9 games I have played engi as a mid-late hero and he has time and time again proved to be an essential dps in the team. Why?
Engineer effectively has double dps once he has farmed up. With a few disables, planting turret will be no problem. Since his turret has a fixed rate of hits and is invulnerable to other forms of attack, it makes it extremely difficult to take down a well placed turret without impairing the coordination of your team, not mentioning the damage you will receive whilst attempting to break it. The thing about engi is that he has the widest range of skill functions in the game. His reworked tinker has made him even MORE suited to carrying (since he doesn't need to channel).
In games, whenever I just farm up a thunderclaw, it tends to turn the tables almost instantly. The turret's AS naturally + tinker instantly boosts total output as it gives a high rate of cl procs. Even at early game, placing the turret + tinkering near a chasing hero can deal significant enough damage to change the hero being hunted. Aside from that, the pushback/stun from keg is a huge bonus in the placement of his ult. More often than not, I use engi's ulti as more of a purge trap rather than depend on its magical dps field. Because entering and exiting severely maims an enemy target from movement or any form of combat, allies are able to pound on them for the duration. This gives ample time for the turret to deal massive dps to any targeted hero and in an AoE.
Unfortunately, I fail to see how puzzlebox complements his main mid/late skill, turret, besides somehow adding some spammability to keg. Fine, puzzle box for some nice summons and throwing keg a couple more times. Other heroes are more suited to farming up puzzlebox. Using engi solely for the keg seems to be somewhat of a waste. Fine, a somewhat low cd time, if so then it would seem justifiable to get puzzlebox on hammerstorm.
After playing around with the Ring of Sorcery build I mentioned earlier, I'm now in a believer in its power. One of the best things about it is you become a very effective jungler. Place a turret between the three spawns and pull the spawns to it one at a time, tinker the turret and just have it tank while it kills them all. You should get all three spawns every time without taking any damage or wasting any mana you can't just recover with the ring.
I usually go for Ring of Sorcery -> Ghost Marchers -> Thunderclaw -> Bottle -> Charged Hammer. Feel free to throw a Mana Battery in there somewhere if you need it, but I always go for Ring first. Last hitting as engineer is pretty easy unless you're laning against someone like Plague Rider, so getting Ring first isn't too hard. For skills, I focus on getting keg and turret to max as fast as possible, but I also make sure to pick up the first rank of tinker and lightning field as soon as they're available.
This build focuses less on initiating and more on holding the line. Infinite mana turret with Thunderclaw is pretty damn scary. Tinker the turret, and keg them into it if they start trying to attack it. I end up using Lightning Field as an escape or a deterrence instead of a initiating tool a lot of the time.
This build has been pretty effective and I advise people to give it a chance.
Last edited by QQCucumber; 02-12-2010 at 01:56 PM.
Frostwolf deserves a mention as luxury if your team has it's DPS covered. Good health/mana/damage. AS/MS slow on you and and your turret is hot. The +150 mana is transferred to turret as well ensuring it never runs out.
Usually after core I see what the team needs more.
Initiation = Blink
Support DPS = Frostwolf
DPS = Savage Mace
Dying before I can ulti = BKB
I also like phase boots for the extra last hitting power in lane and the phase effect is nice for running through the chaotic battle to get the perfect ulti. I also include a thunder claw in my core because the lightning has real dps potential in a team fight.
What about getting a +Max Mana item early so u could jungle with turret easily? U don't have to turn it off for mana, tinker is cheap, u can pull 3 camps to ur turret and farm without pauses.
Or u can just leave it somewhere on rock so it could kill 1 camp every minute without getting hits. U can even farm up ancients, it wipes predasaurs easily if u put it in trees, the only problem is small dragons cause they still able to hit 1-2 times while running in circles.
I tried jungling from level 1 but to keep up with laning xp you need to take turret/tinker and not keg. You end up underlevelled because you get such a bad start and jungling is slow. It also requires you to pull camps into lane and simply rush pickled brain. You can't take on more than 1 (maybe 2) camp at a time either.
You can chain-kill ancients every minute (it takes about 40 seconds to kill) at about 8 but even that isnt very xp efficient I dont think.
Last edited by deweylewie; 02-15-2010 at 09:38 AM.
All the people who say that Engi has a good animation...yes, he has a good animation, AFTER he starts shooting. His windup is ****ing ridiculous and he gets outdenied by almost every other ranged hero with his terrible base damage and 2 second windup to actually shoot a bullet. Very annoying.
I tend to build engi as a carry in pubs and as a portal-key-first in more competitive games. I think that his ult + portal key combo is just too sick, and someone good with keg to move opponents around can just murder with his ult.
I do tend to get phase boots just for the base damage bonus, and also because if you don't have portal key they really help you just barrel out of the woods into the middle of their team and hit your ult asap.
Well, after 3 games with engie now, i have to say i love the portal> puzzle> demonic (game was long) build.
It totally owns.
Also, laned with a magmus and it was just lol, we both got keys fast because its a ridiculously good lane and when we ult together, its just insane.
The enemies chioce becomes
A: Run from magmus ult and get purged and slowed
B: Suck it up and take crazy damage.
Just went something like 8-6-28 with than combo even with sand wraith to stop our full initiation.
MAtch ID: 27572271 If your interested (feel free to put it up on your guide :P)
EDIT: Im actualy very surprised you have neither demonic or magmus up there in your guide, seeing as your gonna be right next to their entire team and probably slowing them, demonic if the farms good seems like a no brainer.
And magmus, well, you lane just as well as pyro/magmus (less dps from spells offset by turret and your stun moving them back a few feet) and your ults completely destroy teams.
Last edited by Lolololage; 02-19-2010 at 12:36 AM.