Shieldbreaker - An in depth look

[Ubuntu]

This is an in depth look at shieldbreaker,

The first column is how much armor they had, the second is their original damage reduction %. The next two columns are the reduced armor and % reduction wheras the last column is the increase in damage.

Armor Reduction After Reduction	+% From Shieldbreaker
-11	-49.4	-17	-65.1	10.51
-10	-46.1	-16	-62.8	11.43
-9	-42.7	-15	-60.5	12.45
-8	-39.0	-14	-57.9	13.60
-7	-35.2	-13	-55.3	14.88
-6	-31.0	-12	-52.4	16.33
-5	-26.6	-11	-49.4	17.98
-4	-21.9	-10	-46.1	19.86
-3	-16.9	-9	-42.7	22.03
-2	-11.6	-8	-39.0	24.55
-1	-6.0	-7	-35.2	27.50
0	0.0	-6	-31.0	31.01
1	5.7	-5	-26.6	34.21
2	10.7	-4	-21.9	36.56
3	15.3	-3	-16.9	37.99
4	19.4	-2	-11.6	38.43
5	23.1	-1	-6.0	37.80
6	26.5	0	0.0	36.00
7	29.6	1	5.7	33.96
8	32.4	2	10.7	32.14
9	35.1	3	15.3	30.51
10	37.5	4	19.4	29.03
11	39.8	5	23.1	27.69
12	41.9	6	26.5	26.47
13	43.8	7	29.6	25.35
14	45.7	8	32.4	24.32
15	47.4	9	35.1	23.38
16	49.0	10	37.5	22.50
17	50.5	11	39.8	21.69
18	51.9	12	41.9	20.93
19	53.3	13	43.8	20.22
20	54.5	14	45.7	19.57
21	55.8	15	47.4	18.95
22	56.9	16	49.0	18.37
23	58.0	17	50.5	17.82
24	59.0	18	51.9	17.31
25	60.0	19	53.3	16.82

As we can see, shieldbreaker's effectiveness is lessened with each point of armor the target gains.

EDIT: took out information about Riftshards > Shieldbreaker

That is only true when enemy -4< armor < 20, after spells like pestilence's ulti or Soulstealer's passive.


I hope my guide/info post contained some useful information.

[dreamex]

This is an in depth look at shieldbreaker,

The first column is how much armor they had, the second is their original damage reduction %. The next two columns are the reduced armor and % reduction wheras the last column is the increase in damage.

Armor Reduction After Reduction    Difference
1    5.7    -5    -36.3    41.9
2    10.7    -4    -28.1    38.8
3    15.3    -3    -20.4    35.7
4    19.4    -2    -13.2    32.5
5    23.1    -1    -6.4    29.5
6    26.5    0    0.0    26.5
7    29.6    1    5.7    23.9
8    32.4    2    10.7    21.7
9    35.1    3    15.3    19.8
10    37.5    4    19.4    18.1
11    39.8    5    23.1    16.7
12    41.9    6    26.5    15.4
13    43.8    7    29.6    14.2
14    45.7    8    32.4    13.2
15    47.4    9    35.1    12.3
16    49.0    10    37.5    11.5
17    50.5    11    39.8    10.7
18    51.9    12    41.9    10.1
19    53.3    13    43.8    9.5
20    54.5    14    45.7    8.9
21    55.8    15    47.4    8.4
22    56.9    16    49.0    7.9
23    58.0    17    50.5    7.5
24    59.0    18    51.9    7.1
25    60.0    19    53.3    6.7

As we can see, shieldbreaker's effectiveness is lessened with each point of armor the target gains.

Lets compare this to riftshards (level 4)

20% chance for 2.4 critical strike

2.4/20% = average of 28% increase in damage. Therefore riftshards > Shieldbreaker whenever the target has >6 armor. Since everyone should have more than 6 armor by the time you can get this item, it is effectivly useless.

This shows that Riftshards > Shieldbreaker for any carry that doesn't already have a built in crit (Warbeast, Madman Swiftblade).

Of course, this doesn't completely close the book for this item. Any hero that already has an armor debuff, the effective range of shieldbreaker is larger. For example, predator with his ultimate (-6 armor) increases the range to 12 armor. Another use is heroes that have other physical damage moves. Such as Deadwood and arachna. In this case the damage is going to be increased for both sources, and may make it more worthwhile.

The final example is heroes that already have crit, aka madman, swiftblade and warbeast. Since crits don't stack, shieldbreaker may be a better option.



I hope my guide/info post contained some useful information.

Your guide is flawed because Shieldbreaker is 1100g cheaper than Riftshards.

[Ubuntu]

Your guide is flawed because Shieldbreaker is 1100g cheaper than Riftshards.

Good point. I will factor that in.

EDIT: I did

Shieldbreaker is still only a better option for heroes with >8 armor, which almost every hero will have, through the various support buffs (Plated greaves, nomes, astro etc..)

[Lambchop]

I'll get you one day, Charlie Horse, one day...

[Arkillion]

Riftshards level 4 is the cost of (2650 + 950 + 950 + 950) which accumulates to the total amount of 5500 whereas Shieldbreaker is 4400), the damage from level 4 Shards is +15 and there's a 24% or 20%? Chance of hitting 2.8x Damage which estimated target has 200 damage is equivalent to 560 which is way better overall than hitting more with less armour imo.

Do you think Level 4 Shards is more viable on a Pestilence than a shieldbreaker when Swarm + Shield = -21 Armour?

[Shiri]

Also shieldbreaker increases the damage of the rest of your team, right?

[ZeroHonor]

well you forget the fact that shildbreaker also increases teammebers/pets damage, and you need to calc in price too.. Else fine overview...

[dreamex]

Here's a silly spreadsheet I made to validate the value of Shieldbreaker on Madman as a cost to benefit ratio:

edit: The calculation for Riftshards there is inflated actually, since Madman has a built in crit that would reduce the effectiveness of additional crit, but you sort of get the picture anyways.

[Ubuntu]

Here's a silly spreadsheet I made to validate the value of Shieldbreaker on Madman as a cost to benefit ratio:

Shieldbreaker makes sense on madman because he has built in crit, thus riftshards is less effective on him.

[dreamex]

Shieldbreaker makes sense on madman because he has built in crit, thus riftshards is less effective on him.

The spreadsheet can be modified for any hero, just take out the column where I put in madman's stats.

Also, at extremely high armor levels riftshards would still be better than shieldbreaker on madman, and were you to ignore cost completely then Savage mace would be better than shieldbreaker.

[HONYoda]

Shieldbreaker > Riftshards for the simple fact that it buffs anyone on your team who is attacking your target. I always go Shieldbreaker over Riftshards.

Also, if Madman has Riftshards (level 4 - 20% chance for crit?), and say his crit% from skills is 20%, then he effectively has a 20% + 16% = 36% chance to critical strike. While the Riftshards can't proc at the same time as his crit skill, they can proc 20% of the other 80% of the time that his skill doesn't proc, which gives him a 16% extra chance to crit. So it's still not a bad item...especially if he has a Shieldbreaker TOO!

[NotDan]

Could you add some negative values, for pestilence / demented shaman players?

[awayish`]

you have to remember that people get shieldbreaker usually on heroes with -armor skills or synergize well with -armor.

[Ubuntu]

Could you add some negative values, for pestilence / demented shaman players?

I did. Also i had the formula for negative armor slightly wrong, was showing shieldbreaker to be more powerful than it actually is.


To everyone that is complaining:

Shieldbreaker does increase the damage of everyone else attacking the target, so depending on your line-up the item may or may not be worth it.

I also stated in my original post that for heroes like arachna, it is a better item because it will increase the damage of her ulti.

[Ubuntu]

Do you think Level 4 Shards is more viable on a Pestilence than a shieldbreaker when Swarm + Shield = -21 Armour?

Depends where the -15 armor debuff puts them.

Basically, look at the graph. If you want to fight someone with 20 armor than shieldbreaker will add another 31% damage. However if they only have 10 armor, then shieldbreaker only adds 22%.

Basically Riftshards > Shieldbreaker on pest IF

Enemy armor (before pest ulti) Is less than 8 or greater than 24.

So shieldbreaker is a good item on pest unless the enemy is stacking armor or is mainly composed of weak Ints.

[dreamex]

Depends where the -15 armor debuff puts them.

Basically, look at the graph. If you want to fight someone with 20 armor than shieldbreaker will add another 31% damage. However if they only have 10 armor, then shieldbreaker only adds 22%.

Basically Riftshards > Shieldbreaker on pest IF

Enemy armor (before pest ulti) Is less than 8 or greater than 24.

So shieldbreaker is a good item on pest unless the enemy is stacking armor or is mainly composed of weak Ints.

uhm, you are doing your math wrong.

[Ubuntu]

uhm, you are doing your math wrong.

Level 3 riftshards adds 19.2% damage on average

An enemy with 8 armor, pest ulti --> -7 armor

Shieldbreaker makes that -13, which gives a 18% boost over -7

Enemy with 24 armor pest ulti --> 9 armor

Shieldbreaker makes it 3 armor for a difference of 19.8%

So actually 24 armor shield breaker still stronger, however at 25 it breaks.

[dreamex]

Level 3 riftshards adds 19.2% damage on average

An enemy with 8 armor, pest ulti --> -7 armor

Shieldbreaker makes that -13, which gives a 18% boost over -7

Enemy with 24 armor pest ulti --> 9 armor

Shieldbreaker makes it 3 armor for a difference of 19.8%

So actually 24 armor shield breaker still stronger, however at 25 it breaks.

This is the same fallacy that people who don't understand armor perpetrate.

To evaluate Shieldbreaker you are not looking at only target armor, but also an evaluation of target damage taken which is a function of your initial damage.

Shieldbreaker is essentially something that reduces your targets effective HP by 36% at all times regardless of armor level or base hp or damage. What this means is that heroes with high EHP through armor will be penalized less than heroes with high EHP through health.

Take your example:

At 8 armor, an enemy has 32% Damage Reduction

With Pestilence Ultimate, the enemy has 1 armor, and 5.7% Damage Reduction.

Were you to strike the original target with 100 damage he would have taken only 68, striking the now modified target would result in you striking for 94.3.

That is an improvement in damage of 38.6% just for the ultimate.

With Level 3 Riftshards your initial damage (100) is increased by 19.2, now you deal 119.2 damage. Against the original target you would've done 81.05 Damage, with Pestilence's ultimate up you would've done 112.4 damage.

The same 38.6% benefit increase is tendered by Pestilence's Ulti.

The difference in damage is evaluated as the changes between both values:

With Pestilence Ulti:

Base - 94.3
Riftshards - 112.4

Improvement: 19.2%

Now to model Shieldbreaker effect what you do is you're taking the target to -5 armor, meaning a damage reduction of -36.2% or rather, a damage increase of 36.2%.

So with Pestilence Ulti and Shieldbreaker you would deal 100 * 1.362 * 0.943 damage, or 128.4 damage

94.3 to 128.4 damage is an increase of 36.1%

Significantly better than Riftshards at these armor levels.

Edit:

The effect value of Shieldbreaker with respects to damage done is dynamic depending on 3 variables your damage, target armor, target HP, this makes it difficult to model linearly with respects to the other items. The static effect of Shieldbreaker is that in essence, it reduces your targets EHP by 36%.

For instance, the effect value of Riftshards is static, in that it is always a 28% damage done increase, irregardless of target armor or your damage.

[a_cloth]

This thread is retarded, sheildbreaker increases your entire teams dps on the enemy not just yours. Your argument is invalid









/thread

[Ubuntu]

This is the same fallacy that people who don't understand armor perpetrate.

To evaluate Shieldbreaker you are not looking at only target armor, but also an evaluation of target damage taken which is a function of your initial damage.

Shieldbreaker is essentially something that reduces your targets effective HP by 36% at all times regardless of armor level or base hp or damage. What this means is that heroes with high EHP through armor will be penalized less than heroes with high EHP through health.

Take your example:

At 8 armor, an enemy has 32% Damage Reduction

With Pestilence Ultimate, the enemy has 1 armor, and 5.7% Damage Reduction.

Were you to strike the original target with 100 damage he would have taken only 68, striking the now modified target would result in you striking for 94.3.

That is an improvement in damage of 38.6% just for the ultimate.

With Level 3 Riftshards your initial damage (100) is increased by 19.2, now you deal 119.2 damage. Against the original target you would've done 81.05 Damage, with Pestilence's ultimate up you would've done 112.4 damage.

The same 38.6% benefit increase is tendered by Pestilence's Ulti.

The difference in damage is evaluated as the changes between both values:

With Pestilence Ulti:

Base - 94.3
Riftshards - 112.4

Improvement: 19.2%

Now to model Shieldbreaker effect what you do is you're taking the target to -5 armor, meaning a damage reduction of -36.2% or rather, a damage increase of 36.2%.

So with Pestilence Ulti and Shieldbreaker you would deal 100 * 1.362 * 0.943 damage, or 128.4 damage

94.3 to 128.4 damage is an increase of 36.1%

Significantly better than Riftshards at these armor levels.

This is wrong because armor does not scale linearly.

And pestilence ulti is -5,-10-,15 armor, Not -7 as you showed.