The Hunter - Nibelheim [Anti-Juker] 2nd Draft [Updated]

[Sadhe]

His first skill is absolutely lovely, but he really is only a walking ward currently.

[ImmortalTecz]

to big mana cost for a agi

[[vOv]Fuga]

thumbs down

[[H3LP]IntErlIdEr]

FIrstly, let me tell you that I loved the concept behind this hero: areal scout, or hunter, with skills that are up to the job. On to the skill analysis:

Skill 1:
Instead of scaling the AoE, I'd just scale the duration. Keep it a constant 550 AoE and change the duration to 10/14/18/22 seconds. It's a buff on earlier levels but a nerf on those ahead. Firstly, because 22 seconds already allows you to scout for ganks when defending; secondly, because 5 seconds on level 1 would be completely useless.

I believe earlier levels of skills shouldn't be, as in most cases, useless. I believe all levels have to be useful to a degree, although leveling would bring more benefits - as would be the case here. Keeping it a constant 550 AoE is, again, an early buff and a later nerf. This comes for the same reasons and I won't repeat them.

Finally, I'd also change it to "whatever he or a creature he controls sees" instead of "around himself". This is a core and very significant change, a real buff that would really change the way the hero is played. Suddenly people would get Puzzleboxes for him and be able to practically scout the whole jungle in a matter of seconds.

Skill 2:
I personally dislike passive skills. It may be just me, but more than 1 in the same hero doesn't seem appropriate from my perspective. I would, instead, change this into an active skill with an AoE and little cost.

It could be something along the lines of 60/80/100/120 in a 400/425/450/475 AoE that would apply the "Track" status on enemies. The visuals could be some taint being tossed at the enemy signifying they are marked.

The duration would be 10/12/14/16 for balance reasons, specificly because it would synergyse 1,000% with his first skill, as it would reveal the enemies caught in the AoE for the duration of this spell, and their path for the time they've shown it according to the Skill 1 (with the proposed change).

Skill 3:
I have to be honest with you here, I really liked the skill but the mana cost and cooldown are both completely off. Mana cost should be a constant 160 to prevent people from not leveling it out of spite, but that's about as high as I'd go. 40-30 secs cooldown for a non-ultimate, AoE disable skill is completely crazy and underpowered. I'd say 14/13/12/11 seconds, again, to encourage people to invest precious and invaluable skill points into it.

Although I understand you consider this skill to be too strong, there are other ways to balance it. Per say, 500 AoE is fair, but how about you make it 600 (yes, 100 units bigger) yet melee-ranged? I'm trying to discuss this insted of just saying, as it's your hero and your skills. Also, there's no snare skill currently preventing heroes caught within it that prevent them from attacking, so why not reallow them to attack while caught? This would be a significant nerf, yet at peace with the enormous cooldown buff we just gave to it.

Anyways, I leave it up to you to come up with something. What I won't accept in good terms is that you give this skill 300, even 200+ mana cost and over 20 seconds cooldown, so you can forget about that if you want to look really serious about this.

Ultimate:
His ultimate is something I enjoyed thinking about visually. I imagine him hitting the ground with his mighty Dagger and daggers impaling the enemies. It may sound cliche, but this skill could be an oversynergicly oriented skill and I love overlysynergized stuff.

2k AoE is too much. I'd say 800 units around him should do it. All enemies hit by it get the effects of his snare - and, appropriately, are held still only relative to this skill's current level - and also get the Track debuff - again, only relatively to this skill's current level. Per say, if you didn't put a single precious and invaluable skill point into snare, you won't make the effect proc - but will still deal the dmg and apply track. Or if you didn't put a single, precious and, of course, invaluable skill point into Track, then you won't have that debuff applied either. Or neither, or both. It all depends on how you build the hero.

Considerations:
All in all, I considered the concept outstanding and I loved the way you managed to rethink Scout and build it to your own standards. An agility hero that is not carry material sounds as odd as an intelligence hero that can tank, but we already have Blacksmith; or an Str hero that is a caster, like Raigor and Tiny.

If we can mix concepts and end up with such great, interesting and useful heroes, then I see no problem giving the Agi some love. Mixing stats, concepts and roles has worked in the past; if we can take something from that, is learning that an atribute doesn't dictate the role.

I support this.
:tup:

~IntEr

[SyKot]

I really love the first ability. However he only has 2 active abilites. One 31 cd and the other 120, both costing heaps of mana.

[volcan33]

Comments:
He is a nice hero,but i think he needs more agressive skill since he is an chaser/ganker.

Track has too much buffs/debuffs involved, and will just rip the art of fog hiding, which is not a good thing, since skilled ppl use it well and takes months to master.

Runic dagger could send a wave every x seconds, to renew Track debuff (if u keep it)


btw the mana usage for skills is way too high for a 1.7 int gain.

[[LntC]kek7go]

Now This is is what you would expect from a hero called scout and not a random ganker

A hero that gives you map awareness and location of your enemy truly is something that pro players would love (and pubstomping people) and ofcourse going againts the norm that Agi heroes are always carries or semi carries.
A reduced turnspeed is something I am quite curios about, How people would react to it and how awesome it would while squishing nubz who panic. Oh I cannot wait to get my hands on him if he gets made to HoN.. Tracking noobs be phun..

Concept I love... Numbers are something that are hard to see working outside of the game (and in the end they will be OP to half of the community)

Edit:
Why this is still in Sandbox... Thought this was popular suggestion from the awesomness... Explains lack of the poll thought!

[PzKw]

I really love this hero because he's not imbalanced

Track needs a rework though, 80 80 140 140 is way too low for the bonuses that could give.

[ShadowExile]

Now This is is what you would expect from a hero called scout and not a random ganker

A hero that gives you map awareness and location of your enemy truly is something that pro players would love (and pubstomping people) and ofcourse going againts the norm that Agi heroes are always carries or semi carries.
A reduced turnspeed is something I am quite curios about, How people would react to it and how awesome it would while squishing nubz who panic. Oh I cannot wait to get my hands on him if he gets made to HoN.. Tracking noobs be phun..

Concept I love... Numbers are something that are hard to see working outside of the game (and in the end they will be OP to half of the community)

Edit:
Why this is still in Sandbox... Thought this was popular suggestion from the awesomness... Explains lack of the poll thought!

Numbers are near impossible to balance (for this concept) outside of game because he isn't a solo hero like scout, how he's played and who he's played with can only be really balanced in games, like with some of S2's heroes. It's still in Sandbox because I'm trying to get a) a better impression of skills [some people dislike to passives] and b) I'm also writing a downloadable file of this hero to play in practice mode (so people can see his skills perfectly and well, to an extent play with him and see how OP he may be).

It's late here so I'm not responding to all the feedback, but in the morning I definitely will guys I thank everyone for all the feedback, it's really good and it helps me a lot.

[[Somb]Kynth]

I think this hero is awesome, love all the skills. However he might be TOO good of a ward, imo. >_>

1st skill - I do think that the 28 secs of sight behind you is a little big, for the sight of a tree ward. But to make it active, you could have it be a castable lasting around 20-25 secs / cd 30 secs. (Point is he can have it on most of the time, could make it easy to reset the skill too, code-wise) But also with like heightened senses or something like that he could get a ms or attack bonus, just something to make the hero more fun to play. Maybe even an armor debuff or something cool, like 5 at level 4 or something. Or with it on it can make it easier to track people.

Love his ult, great anti-gank.

EDIT: nvm :Mock:

[ShadowExile]

Kynth, I like your suggestion. Would also solve a bit of a farming problem reported back. How about this?

"The Hunter is adept at attuning himself to the wild, being able to recognise tracks in the wild and attacking critically."

Activatable

Gives 7/14/21/28 seconds of vision in a 500 radius around The Hunter. Enemies caught in the sight will have armor reduced by 2, 3, 4, 5 when attacked and allows the Hunter a chance to deal a vital attack, dealing .2, .3, .4 and .5 more damage in an attack? (If an attack was going to deal 100 damage and it procs, it will deal 100 + 50% = 150.)

And ofc it'd have a cooldown of 12/20/28/36 (so it can almost always be up but not constantly).

Mana Cost? 40/55/60/75.

Ofc I'll give him an intelligence buff and intelligence gain buff.

[[Somb]Kynth]

Sounds good but what is the crit chance? I would suggest like 15% or like every 5th attack. The skill does still give the sight behind you still, right? If so, is the negative armor just an aura around you or something that happens once they enter that 500 vision left behind you?

I approve of the change, if it still gives sight behind you. Crucial part of the skill. :P

Just got an idea for his ult, what if it gave him unobstructed sight in 1000/1500/2000 range for like 5 secs after his uses ult? Sees through tree's and above cliffs and stuff. Kind of like when Nightstalker gets Aghanim's Scepter in DotA. This would just be added on, or tweaked into it.

[H_Mantis]

We don't need scouts. We need Hunters!

[ShadowExile]

Sounds good but what is the crit chance? I would suggest like 15% or like every 5th attack. The skill does still give the sight behind you still, right? If so, is the negative armor just an aura around you or something that happens once they enter that 500 vision left behind you?

I approve of the change, if it still gives sight behind you. Crucial part of the skill. :P

Just got an idea for his ult, what if it gave him unobstructed sight in 1000/1500/2000 range for like 5 secs after his uses ult? Sees through tree's and above cliffs and stuff. Kind of like when Nightstalker gets Aghanim's Scepter in DotA. This would just be added on, or tweaked into it.

Could definitely make it the ult boost. EDIT: But it wouldn't be able to be coded into the game because S2 haven't built the functions for Treesight, Cliffsight etc

[killerkrill]

Isn't nibelheim a sword from maplestory/FF/other myths.

[ShadowExile]

I don't believe so ;S Image isn't mine but I thought Nibelheim was a decent alternative name, and my hand has been forced to name him that in game due to Blood Hunter taking up the spawn slot of Hero_Hunter.

[JackKetch]

Nibelheim, the hometown of the protagonist, Cloud Strife, in the video game Final Fantasy VII.

Also this is a name of a rock-band...

[[Somb]Kynth]

You could try "Tracker" as an alternative name.
Kind of impersonal though.

[[BLG]F8]

Swap skill E with skill Q. Reasoning behind doing so is that no hero has a Q passive.

[xpK]

Net Binding - You can still cast skills... BUT YOU ARE GIVEN THE SILENCED EFFECT.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL?