The Hunter | Nibelheim
Gray Text is skip-able, and is extra information that I'd like to include, but can be done without | White text is stats and information | Green Text is what makes the Hunter be what he is.
This hero is a special concept that I have recently come up with, and was something I really wanted to make. I figured he should be EXTREMELY team-oriented, but also his synergy is being able to track any unit, and the map. Due to his first passive skill, he also synergises well with movement speed. He has two passive skills and two skills which are activated, and both activation skills are generally team oriented. He destroys invisible heroes as if they were flies, but does not have permanent vision like Scout. But before I give too much of the surprise away, I suppose I should get straight into stats, and explain why such stats are as they are (and what I aim for in making those stats, as to what hero I am trying to make him be).
Keep in mind: I do not intend for The Hunter (Nibelheim) to be a carry. He is a tracker, Anti-Juker and incredibly Map Aware hero. While a lot of agility heroes ARE able to become carries due to their skills and main attribute which gives +1 attack speed per level, Nibelheim does not have the skills required to output huge damage, and will have a low base AGI and lower AGI gain than most AGI heroes. Remember, Agility = / = Carry.
AGI ][ INT ][ STR
[ 22 ][ 17 ][ 20 ]
Using math we can calculate that: (of what I am able to understand of HoN formulas, not too sure on the armor or damage).
Starting HP: 530
Starting MP: 221
Damage: 56 - 67
Attack Cooldown: 1.6 seconds
Attack Range: 125
Move Speed: 305
Hero Information |
The Hunter grew up in a large mountain of Newerth. Over time, the Hunters naturally evolved to be strong, and trained from birth to Hunt and Track. Eventually they evolved to be able to smell and track any animal. When the Hellbourne invaded, all the animals died of fear, emitted like a foul stench by the Hellbourne. The Hunter left the mountains and his kinsman and descended down, determined to put his skills to the aid of Newerth, but along the way, rocks along a cliff crumbled and he fell into a secret cavern. There, he found a Knife covered in runes, with inscriptions claiming to be made by the greatest and luckiest Blacksmiths of old, a rune of untold power and strength. It is from this knife that the Hunter draws most his strength in times of great need.
Geographical Memory [Q]
[No Icon Yet, Will Make One Soon] [ACTIVATION]
Gives 7/14/21/28 seconds of vision in a 300/400/500/600 radius around The Hunter. Enemies caught in the sight will have armor reduced by 2/3/4/5 when attacked and allows the Hunter a 15/18/21/24% chance to deal a vital attack, dealing .2/.5./.8/1.2x more damage in an attack. Cooldown: 12/20/28/36, Mana Cost: 40/55/60/75.
Radius: 300/400/500/600 (around the Hunter as he moves).
SYNERGY: Stacks incredibly well with movement speed, or things like a Haste Rune, as you are able to get a lot of vision of the map more quickly. Running around Neutrals and then leaving gives you at Level 4, 28 seconds to see if someone from the enemy team comes to farm neutrals. Also synergises well with an Invisibility rune.
[PASSIVE] - Icon courtesy of GuildWars
The Hunter is able to track any target anywhere by following their trail if he has dealt 80/80/140/140 damage to them. Each unit is trackable by The Hunter for 5/10/15/20 seconds. The Hunter can track 2/3/4/5 targets at a time.
Applies "Tracked" to any enemy hero hit for required damage.
When the Hunter is tracking a hero, he gains +4/5/6/7% base damage, and +3/4/5/6% movespeed. For each other hero he is tracking, he gains +4% base damage and +4% movespeed.
[Visual: Trail that appears to look like a smell or odor trail, the color of the player you are tracking. It is kind of cloudy in shape, and semi-transparent].
Net of Binding [E]
[No Icon Yet, Will Make One Soon] [ACTIVE]
The Hunter throws a large net that binds enemies in a 300 AoE for a 1/1.2/1.5/1.7 second duration. While bound, they are disarmed and cannot use items, but can still use spells. After the duration, a Bound effect is created, reducing enemy turn speed by 20/30/40/50% for the next 2/3/4/5 seconds.
Cast Range: 600 Units
Mana Cost: 155/210/260/310
[VISUAL: The net is glowing and large, with gold round balls on each end of the string. String is thrown onto the ground and forms a cage like structure, with individual nets wrapped around (with the golden balls) enemies trapped within.]
Runic Dagger [R]
[No Icon Yet, Will Make One Soon] [ACTIVE]
The Hunter strikes his dagger into the ground and channels his mana into the dagger. The dagger feeds off his mana and creates a large pulse that ripples throughout a radius of 1000/1500/2000. Any enemy unit affected within this spell is damaged for 200/300/400 magic damage and is mini-stunned for 0.5 seconds. Reveals enemy units and automatically applies Tracked to any enemy hero hit. Causes Immobility, Perplexed and Silencing of the target. After 1.1/1.3/1.5/1.7 seconds, the bound effect is removed and the enemies turn speed is reduced by 50% for the next 5 seconds.
Channeling Time: 2/1.5/1 seconds
Mana Cost: 260/350/440
Cooldown: 130/120/110 seconds.
A lot of synergies work with this hero due to his concept. Since he can track almost any hero and is not easily jukeable, a lot of items can support his team well and still serve his role well. Items like a Daemonic Breastplate for Armor Reduction, Frostfield Plate, Astrolabe, Assassin's Shroud if you want to get your ult to start channeling and then go invis if you so wanted (don't know why, you'd just turn into a scout and then everyone would hate you). But still, it's easy to say a lot of items work well with this hero, and what people would build for him would be very interesting among itself.
I think it's safe to say that a clear synergy is Net of Binding, let your allies to hit on them for a while, and ult. Track is automatically applied and they can't escape. If they run around trees, you have both your first and second passive skills (which is shared vision) that will prevent them from escaping.
If this hero was to be implemented, he'd definitely be both a pub star and competitively viable
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, both positive and negative! Remember this is still a concept, and as such it is in the Sandbox. That's why I want feedback as to how he could be better balanced, and skill suggestions that would Synergise better, (completely rework his skills if you want and post, I will get back to you), and also any stat or balance changes that you'd think would be better slightly tweaked, feel free to tell me. I don't plan to move this hero to suggestions until the balance is perfect, because a lot of people tend to not care about concept and vote 'no', only because balance is off, not concept.
Other parts are coming to this Suggestion, including Change Log and everything, but it's late so I plan to get off the computer for a while. Will refresh this thread every 10 minutes or so for the next few hours so I will respond to you guys.
Note: A downloadable and playable (in practice mode) hero is being made as you read this! Look forward to it as it will be released when I place this thread in the Heroes Suggestions forums.
Last edited by ShadowExile; 05-15-2010 at 09:14 PM.
- January 3rd, 2010. Various balance changes made. Some skills slightly reworked. Net of Binding now casts more mana, and no longer has a snare after it's effect, and instead reduces turnspeed by 50% for 5 seconds after the duration. Thank you Grimace for this suggestion
Last edited by ShadowExile; 01-02-2010 at 08:10 PM.
Quite nice but here some changes I would make overall:
Nibelheim as a name? Well I dont think that it fits to a person rather than a city.
Make it Nibel or something similiar.
Hunters are actually long ranged charakters thats why I would give him a skill, to change from long range (Bow) to melee (dagger). So maybe some kind of dual-skill like Maliken has for his sword powers, but the Hunter for his different weapons.
I would change Net of Binding to a Trap.
The trap (hunters lay traps for bears etc) shall be invisible but the effect stronger than the of your net. Would be more realistic I think. The trap has kind of magnetic affect and so it has a small AoE. Well, the idea has to be better thought anyway xD
The ulti is quite okay, but I think a bit more dmg would be better. 400 dmg? In late game its nearly nothing, so boost it too 500-600 i think.
Track is an awesome idea, even though I would say, that it applies like 80/100/120/140 and the tracking time like 7/11/15/19~
The thing about the ultimate is that it does a guaranteed 400 damage to every enemy unit in the AoE. Late game, 2000 units will hit anything, guaranteed, non-reductable. In a team fight, that's a damn fair good contribution of a total of 20000 damage for 1 second cast time, and if they decided to run away, Track is already applied. Plague can do more damage, sure, but Plague can also be reduced by Barrier Idol. This can't, so I think 400 is a bit of a fair ultimate. Though if anyone else agrees with you I'm happy to listen to changes.
Btw, his name as a hero won't be Nibelheim :P I was just trying to give it a dota-esque theme about it, kind of how Razor was Lightning Revenant, or The Invoker was Kael. The name of this hero is "Hunter". Or at least, the how the announcer would say it is, in my head, quite epic.
Personally I reckon there are too many agility heroes that can quickly bring you down from away (or get close) to you really fast. The Hunter can't do this, he has no skill (except for his net really, and even then he's open to a disable as he approaches) that will allow him to get close. When I created him, I visualised a close range hero wielding a powerful hunting knife. That's why giving him an interchangeable bow/knife would be imo, a bad idea. If more people ask for it though, I may give in. But I think Geographical Memory is good in the way it has it's uses... A) It's hard to be followed by enemy heroes you didn't know were there, B) Using it strategically can give vision of the map for quite a bit of time and reveal enemy heroes without the need for wards. But I also believe this skill is kinda under-buffed at the moment ;/ Suggestions would be nice as to how it could be better.
Net of Bindings as a trap wouldn't be the greatest. Firstly it could activate even when you're not there, makes the hero a bit like Techies in the way he laid Land Mines and they were invisible too. I wanted the Hunter to be more team-oriented, and so a small AoE on his net is definitely something I don't want to do. More input from people if you think I'm just being a fiddlestick though.
The thing about my Ulti is that it will reveal any invisible heroes in a large radius, and track them. It will mini-stun, preventing any channeling spells previously being cast, and of course there's the non-reductable or bypassable damage. This would easily destroy Valkyries ultimate when used for an escape, reveal an unfriendly scout and Track him (the thing about Track and I'm not sure if I mentioned it is that it Reveals, not just follows like Blood Hunters. Sure, Blood Hunters will always work as long as enemy is under 40% hp, but it won't reveal without dust. I think maybe 7/11/15/19 is not enough time at Level 4, but it's definitely better having 7 seconds rather than 5 at Level 1, I agree.) About how much the damage is, well, 80 damage is reasonably two hits at Level 1. At Level 4 of this skill, (whenever it's Levelled, I'd say you'd be levelling this and Net, because tracking someone gives you extra buffs) if you're chasing someone, and since he starts off with +5 average ms anyway, he definitely will be able to chase most heroes down.
Anyway that's just kind of what I think about the hero. Thanks for the great feedback, I really appreciated it, but I really dislike thinking of any changes that would turn him into a great non-team oriented one rather than a support, map aware and anti-juking hero with huge team orientation. If you have any suggestions that kind of fit that kind of role better, I'd love to hear them, and if more people like your suggestions then I'll probably also just change it
Theres only 1 problem with this guy, hes a team player and can't 1 hit heros how will scout players adapt?
On the real subject matter, I love this concept completely. It's about time there was a agl hero who wasn't a carry and/or over powered. Honestly I don't think you need to change a thing. Maybe increase his movement to 320, because I think he should be the naturally fastest character in the game and this would put him on par with mageban.(Who shouldn't be that fast in the first place.)
Hehe well with Track I was a bit afraid about how far epic movement speed would become. With Post Haste + 320 ms + Track buff, combined with the right items, almost any hero can be turned into a scary carry. He should definitely be fast like a Hunter, I agree, maybe a 310 ms, that's what Moon Queen has I think.
And as for your first problem, that is a big dilemmna Unfortunately I must not have considered the noob EM games where team players are able to 1 hit heroes Scout players will suffer if this hero is implemented, T-Down
Anyway, sarcasm and jokes aside (as hilarious as Scout and Blacksmith jokes are), thanks for your great positive feedback. Any person loves to hear that stuff anyway, and I love to believe that I'm going in a positive direction with this hero. Perhaps +1 for first Suggestion hero implemented into the game? Who knows
i'd prefer him over scout, that's for sure.
he feels like he'd be OP in competitive matches, but pubs would stay away since they'd probably feel like being able to see where you've been is pointless.
also might want to play around with other radius AOE skills like pyromancer/torts stuns an andromedas ult to get a feel for distance. 2000 radius means 4000 total diameter, and that's like larger than the entire hellbourne or legion base.
but that's not neccessarily a bad thing. using it before an uphill push (by you or your enemy) could prove to be a great advantage in stopping certain initiators.
Ah, by that I meant 2000 total diameter. 4000 would be huge and easy to abuse. Sorry for that typo, will edit the post. I don't feel like he'd be OP, but definitely high tier. Information in Competitive is equal to win, and when you're not jukeable and able to be tracked that easily, it's definitely a powerful thing to be able to do. In pubs, well I'm pretty sure I could defeat them just with the net and auto-attacking if I felt like it, because hardly anyone ever buys wards and the value for information is (I CAN GET TONS OF GOOD ITEMZ WITH 200 GOLD, WHO NEEDS WARDS LOLZ).
So yeah, but I'll definitely change that typo, and maybe reduce damage but turn it back into true damage so that it's non-reduceable... Certainly an idea.
I was not under any circumstances threatened by my life, to bump and say good things about this thread. This post is made by myself, and not written by ShadowExile.
I like your idea. Pew pew pew.
Former member of Off-Topic
August 5th, 2009
October 27th, 2011
I think you could change numbers in his "track" skill...
First of all: "The Hunter is able to track any target anywhere by following their trail if he has dealt 80/80/140/140 damage to them."
I suggest you to change this to 160/140/120/100, because skills should be more powerful with each rank, I think.
Second: "When only one enemy is being tracked"
And again I suggest to change it to 4/3/2/1 enemies, and maybe add some additional bonuses if more enemies are tracked( e.g. - 4 level of Track and 2 persons are tracked, Hunter then receive additional bonus MS and damage, including 10/25% original bonus.).
And one question: will be first passive vision obstructed by trees or cliffs?
But, well, concept is yours and you can just ignore me)
I love the concept!
I'd take this over scout ANY day. His synergy is awesome, and I just feel like the concept is perfect.
Ridiculous. Not Rediculous.
Again for Second, track only lasts (at level 1) for 5 seconds. Having to have four people tracked just to get a 10% increase in base damage and +4% movespeed is really just self-contradictory. It just wouldn't work well, and the way it is it still scales with time, rather than your way, which wouldn't scale well at all.
As for the question, for his geographical memorisation skill, imagine a moving ward which has a 400 radius vision. That's 400 up, and 400 down, 400 in any direction. If this moving ward happened to glance between trees and run off, then he'd be able to see around any trees he had previously run around. It gives a smaller vision, and way less duration, but also gives the ability to put up many "mini-wards" so to speak as he moves around, so basically skills 1 and 2 are to help prevent enemy escape and juking.
This is fantastic. Great ideas. In my opinion, you should remove the slow from after the AoE, but that's the only problem I see here.
Hmmm, I actually agree with you there, but was struggling for an alternative.
How about this?
Instead of being able to cast spells with the net, make it Immobile, Perplexed, Silenced etc, but able to attack with a -20% attack speed slow, rather than being able to cast spells?
Thanks for the positive feedback King It's nice to know I have a mod supporting this hero, makes me feel like I've definitely gone in a right direction.
It was originally 2 but some IRC people called nerf on it xD
Btw guys I'd like to announce that I am making this hero downloadable and playable in practice mode. The hero exists, is a massively big scout as a model, and skills are currently being written by me and maybe some help if I need it :P
So look forward to the download.