Thread: make concede 5/5

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  1. #21
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    Listen now OP.

    There is no frigging way I support your 5/5 concede vote. Seriously, I was just in a game where our middle fed 10 kills, our bottom fed another 9 kills before 15 minute mark. And you expect me to "turn this game around" and not concede?
    Are you being serious?

  2. #22
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    5/5 concede at 25min, 4/5 at 35 mins. yes ty.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetAhead View Post
    5/5 concede at 25min, 4/5 at 35 mins. yes ty.
    No thanks.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreetAhead View Post
    5/5 concede at 25min, 4/5 at 35 mins. yes ty.
    This is just way too long considering that games are already lost at the picking phase in some situations. It is best to just leave it the way it is right now or slightly lower the time requirement for 1 less vote.


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  5. #25
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    No way,

    I think it's fine how it is because there have been games where it's completely over but somebody wants to downvote the entire time until 25 mins. It is a waste of time and if I know it's over I'd like to get to the next game.

    Game Masters are not Frostburn Studios employees. My posts in no way represent the view of Frostburn Studios or any of its staff.


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  6. #26
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    Dota 2 doesn't allow CC at all, which I believe is the best way to do it. I've had several games in HON where our team literally had 1 set of racks, no towers at all, and the other team still had full base- we ended up winning.

    Too often players give up early, because things aren't going their way. ANYTHING can happen in a game, especially late game comebacks. I'm a fan of sports and you NEVER see professional players give up until the clock hits 0:00. Not even when they're down 20+ points. (Patriots in Superbowl LI??) (Cleveland Cavaliers in NBA Finals, down 3-1??).

    I honestly feel that not allowing cc at all will change the mindset of many players. In Dota2, you RARELY hear players complain about the game being over, cc15, etc. But in HON, LITERALLY every other game, someone is begging cc because they died a few times early- and most of the time, it's entirely their own fault.

    The reason I believe this is the best system is because players won't queue unless they're committed for a full game. By implementing a no cc system and a leaver penalty; not allowing to re-queue if you leave, this should dramatically improve player performance in games.

    I oppose the argument of it's a "waste of time" and "everyone should move on to the next game". If a player isn't committed to play a full game, they shouldn't of queued to begin with. That's a loser's mentality and that's one thing I despise of many HON players.

    The failures of one player shouldn't be the deciding factor of the entire game. The point of winning ANY type of game is to overcome adversity, Regardless of the circumstances. Do you expect every game to be a easy? Do you expect every game to be feeder-less? This CC system allows players to give-up early. By completely taking away the cc system, EVERY player will be required to find answers in tough times.
    Last edited by Aziatik702; 03-07-2017 at 02:16 AM.

  7. #27
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    What about if you - Op, cant carry team and still motivate them to win ?...
    just asking.

  8. #28
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    I do believe that the only advantage of the concede vote is that the players can avoid wasting their time in some specific circumstances ( troll players,AFK abuse etc.) However,as already mentioned players shouldn't pass a concede vote that easy.

    RCT members are not Frostburn Studios employees. My posts in no way represent the view of Frostburn Studios or any of its staff.


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  9. #29
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    People shouldnt do a lot of things. If 4 people think they have had it with a game then thats that.

  10. #30
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    there aren't many ways to say the same thing over and over and i think i covered most of what i wanted in my posts
    @Aziatik702 valid points
    @N1ppl3 it's not about being fed up with the game it's about is the game over or not?
    i like to think i can see better than most when a game is definitely lost or when a game is salvageble
    @MothGod if i truly feel i can't carry my team i will obviously concede too
    and as i've said before i don't feel it's my duty to motivate my team regardless of how the game goes
    sadly too many people get mad over little things and they cry and flame so it makes it bad for the whole team
    `En0rm0us yes but it's their safety net and solution to everything when things go bad, go next game

    it would be nice if they changed the system to encourage players to try to win more but I doubt it will happen
    guess i am clinging to a hon that has long gone past of what i used to enjoy and i don't like many new changes
    thankfully i never spent money on hon and i barely even play so it's kinda like whatever mode
    i do honestly think that a better system is needed and that it would indeed improve the game for everybody
    hon 4.0 worst patch ever, rip

  11. #31
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    It should be like backgammon where conceding/playing on have a huge impact on the end game.
    E.g. 2 players on the team are very experienced and can see there is NO WAY IN HELL this game is gonna get turned around.
    They would click concede but nope, were have 2 idiots holding hostage.

    Now it should be weighted like this, those that conceded should win less mmr if we do win (BUT THEY SHOULDNT LOSE ANYTHING if the game is lost, they should also not be penalised if they leave). IF the two idiots want to continue they should then be able to collect ALL the MMR that wuold have been given to the group.

    BUT

    If the same team loses, those that refused to CC should lose DOUBLE points while those that upvoted the CC should lose nothing!

    So tired of having my time/mmr effected by idiots that have no clue about game mechanics, or are in their own little dream land thinking their 2-1 (at 20mins) with 2xx gpm against a team with a true hard carry sitting on 4xx gpm (the fact they got this shows they know how to play and havent made mistakes the last 20mins, what makes you think the last 10 are going to be any different?).

    Am also happy to not gain any mmr if i upvoted the CC but team still won (give my mmr to those that believed and carried) but again let me leave the game coz im not interested in wasting my time in 9 obviously games lost x 30mins to win 1 game that that might be a win if we played till 50.

    TDLR: Give more mmr to those that voted correctly to the concede while taking away from those that got it wrong.
    You voted CC but team won? No MMR for you (your mmr gets spread to those that down voted)
    You voted CC but team lost (and you left) - no penalty and no loss of mmr (double loss of MMR for those that wasted your time)
    You voted CC and lost? You lose no MMR and those that refused to CC lose double.

    I want there to be a consequence for forcing a whole team to waste there time on what is obvious to the rest of the team as a lost game. Maybe people would put more thought into their votes.

  12. #32
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    People getting mad so easily about the little things. I understand your point. But it's only one hand of the story.

    If the game lasts 25min those mad people most likely fked up the game comepletely by that time. There are only a few games - I'd say around 2-5% which could be winnable and where I would refuse to CC. In this case you have to motivate at least 1 person not to CC. If you can't do that i think you wouldn't be able to win this game anyway.

    On the other hand there are still loads of trolls fkin up games and not conceding. Not is not a bannable offense. Getting a troll banned requires some effort. Making people waste my time happens way more often than winning a game when 4/5 willing to CC at 25min.


    You will never get a perfect system. The current one is good and there shouldn't be big changes at all. We could try the 4/5 CC at 25min at 30min again and look how it goes but everything else mentions I'd vote against.

  13. #33
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    just don't even enable cc vote before you at least lost 1 set of barracks because I agree. way too many whiny dudes that want to cc a game, that is a little hard. newsflash: not every game goes perfect from laning to endgame. doesn't mean the game is lost if you are a few kills behind after 15min.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr1st1na View Post
    @N1ppl3 it's not about being fed up with the game it's about is the game over or not?
    i like to think i can see better than most when a game is definitely lost or when a game is salvageble
    What makes you think this way, I wonder? Are you saying you have not been in games where you refused to concede but still lost? If thats the case then then your claim is not true. And I doubt you have never been wrong about concede.
    Quote Originally Posted by cr1st1na View Post
    i barely even play so it's kinda like whatever mode
    Okay...

    Quote Originally Posted by BowlJob View Post

    You voted CC but team won? No MMR for you (your mmr gets spread to those that down voted)
    You voted CC but team lost (and you left) - no penalty and no loss of mmr (double loss of MMR for those that wasted your time)
    You voted CC and lost? You lose no MMR and those that refused to CC lose double.
    You dont see how this is extremely abusable?

  15. #35
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    Thumbs up

    Maybe Can even remove the possibility for CC? I dont know.
    It is possible, but then 4x5 games will not be equal.
    Then it is necessary to delete at the same time KD ratio. And ppl can try to win without CC.

    Why do many people press the CC and do not want to try? I will answer - worry for their statistics of kills/death.
    And if it was remove - they would not worry and tried to win.
    We are transferring power from HON and giving it back to you, the people !
    Remove KD ratio & win streaks


  16. #36
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    N1ppl3 obviously you cannot predicngames correctly to 100%
    also the problem lies in people giving up even at 5-10 minutes in game
    so the concept is ok we stop playing until 15 and we concede
    there have been cases where even i wanted to concede out of frustration or because of team toxicity
    and sometimes somebody more grounded did not pass the vote and we turned the game around
    in times like that people should be thankful that there is a player who wanted to give the game a chance
    with a 5/5 vote if you have such a player in your team you may thank him later for not rage conceding
    also if somebody truly thinks they can turn the game he should not be robbed that chance by 25 minutes when his vote is nullified

    KrisaTX
    they will never remove concede altogether but 5/5 or at least change time to 35min or so for 4/5
    stats don't matter as much anymore, seasons come and go and so do the stats

    BowlJob i don't think those ideas are viable, people get too frustrated sometimes and just spam cc vote
    i think in most games you get like 2-3 players who get fed up easily and give up early game

    StreetAhead interesting idea but again i don't see it happening if they won't even make a 5/5 vote or change the timer for 4/5 to like 35 minutes
    people are too stuck up on this bad system and they rely too much on the concede button when things don't go their way

    hegelsohn even a 4/5 at 30 minutes would be a good start to improve the system
    how can they not see that dota2 works perfectly fine without any concede vote
    most people there don't have a loser mentality first minutes of the game like they do in hon
    hon 4.0 worst patch ever, rip

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by N1ppl3 View Post
    What makes you think this way, I wonder? Are you saying you have not been in games where you refused to concede but still lost? If thats the case then then your claim is not true. And I doubt you have never been wrong about concede.

    Okay...


    You dont see how this is extremely abusable?
    Ok, I might not have spent much time working out the exact mechanics but if we can agree upon
    I will forsake my winnings if I voted CC and you guys still won the game (you can have the mmr I didnt get)
    I will take a double penalty if I refuse to vote cc and we lose
    If I leave the game Im happy for the above bonus/penalties doubled (or something along those lines).

    There needs to be something that rewards/penalises the gamble of playing out a lost game, but allows those with a better insight into the game to have some control of THEIR mmr gains/losses without being FORCED into a win los (and the incredible waste of time involved when your team mate is wrong) of being stuck in a game with somebody that has no insight but insists on making you play out the game.

    I'm not sure how this could be abused.
    IF your about to lose and vote CC, either your team will agree and you lose or if they wont cc they can play on and win (getting your mmr- you get none), or lose (you lose standard amount of mmr but are allowed to leave).
    If your winning and somebody votes to CC, and your sure your gonna win, you play on, that person leaves you get your mmr and the leavers as a bonus), the leaver then loses dbl for leaving a winnable game, or stays and gets very little -> his bonus again goes to the team to punish him for requesting CC on a won game).

    It might need a little work, but basically it comes down to requires some thought as to when to call a vote and what you will vote as it will have an individual repercussion (which will also allow those with a better insight into a game to capatilise more on wins and minimise losses on a personal level instead of having ALL of YOUR mmr based on your team decisions as a solo queuer.
    Last edited by BowlJob; 03-16-2017 at 05:33 PM.

  18. #38
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    i also think there should be a cooldown on individual concede votes
    somebody can get annoyed and just spam the vote out of frustration
    or when 2 or 3 people wanna spam the vote it ruins the mood for rest
    plenty of scenarios where people get into arguments and do this
    a 5 minute cooldown would be good, people will think twice before voting then
    or if they vote out of frustration they cannot spam it every minute
    hon 4.0 worst patch ever, rip

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by BowlJob View Post
    snip
    All you have to do is convice one, just ONE, of your teammates that you can win the game. If you cant bring out enough valid points to four people about how you can turn the game then there is nothing else to do than to accept the concede.

    Cr1st1na, all your arguments are based on "I have had plenty of games where...". Guess what, I have had plenty of games where a game was clearly lost where my team was held hostage because someone "was having fun feeding enemies".

    Only thing I agree with is having limited concede calls per player with a cooldown. Like 3 calls per player with 3-5 minutes cooldown.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by N1ppl3 View Post
    All you have to do is convice one, just ONE, of your teammates that you can win the game. If you cant bring out enough valid points to four people about how you can turn the game then there is nothing else to do than to accept the concede.

    Cr1st1na, all your arguments are based on "I have had plenty of games where...". Guess what, I have had plenty of games where a game was clearly lost where my team was held hostage because someone "was having fun feeding enemies".

    Only thing I agree with is having limited concede calls per player with a cooldown. Like 3 calls per player with 3-5 minutes cooldown.
    i've also said this before, i shouldn't have to convince people to try and play to win, it's not my job or anybody's to do that
    when you queue the game you should already have this mentality and be ready for bad scenarios
    as the quote goes, it's not how hard you hit it's how hard you get hit and keep moving forward
    hon is a mental game as much as anything and if you have a cc15 mind state you won't even give yourself a chance

    i also want to bring another argument, look at your stats and check average game length (most players are around 35 minutes give or take)
    that is a very good indication that most games do not end and are not decided by the 25 minute marker where sometimes 4/5 vote concede
    this is also a poor solution when people argue i'm not having fun so i will just screw around and concede instead of trying to do something
    guess what? winning is fun ... in some scenarios if you won't even give the game a chance you have already lost before it's even decided
    concede also triggers other players to give up, if somebody says i'm done or i won't ward or this mid sucks or carry can't farm, feeders etc...
    i also know i'm putting too much thought on this but a few years ago there wasn't such a bad mentality and hon wasn't so casual as it is today
    hon 4.0 worst patch ever, rip

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