Thread: Witch Slayer Strategy

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  1. #1
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    Witch Slayer Strategy

    I was doing pretty good with this hero lately. I find his biggest problem is the high mana cost. What do you guys normally do about this? I take care of it with my skill build, learning stats early on helps. My skill goes Q > W > Q > W > Q > R > Q > Stats > Stats > Stats > R > Stats > E > W > W > R > E > E > E. I find this way I can combo miniaturize, grave yard, and ult in a fight. It also lets me get the portal key early without having to buy items for increasing my mana pool. Power drain doesn't really work, I have no time to stand there and drain mana in a team fight. Curious how the pros handle him, none of the in game guides work for me.

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    Dont level w only in necessary situations, depends on game, level your E go to your opponent use Q and insta E, ez manaLearn how use mana, don't waste it a lot. For example in mid-laning phase you have to use Q on an incoming wave and E the Archer and your mana is back to full
    Last edited by CodA; 02-13-2017 at 05:01 AM.
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  3. #3
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    WitchSlayer is probably the only INT hero that doesn't have (without items) the manapool to combo his spell level 11 if he goes 4-4-1-2.
    So leveling maxing Q & W should rarely be the best scenario.

    In the vast majority of the cases, you should max Q, take 2-3 points in E before leveling W.
    So your build should look like : Q-E-Q-E-Q-R-Q-W-W/E-W/E-R-W/E-W/E-W/E-Stats-R.
    So level 11 I'm usually 4-2-3-2

    With that kind of build it is easy to roam non-stop, since the mana drain is enough to substain yourself.

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  4. #4
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    I completely disagree. With good mana management you'll be able to combo with maxxed Q and W even with minimal items. I did all the math on this in another thread. I have a very good win percentage as Witch Slayer mid. W and E build is great for harass/pushing waves but having fewer levels in W significantly reduces your kill potential and usefulness in teamfights, ganks and counter ganks.

    Currently WS needs number tweaks on his mana costs and skill scaling and a change to his E - to the best of my knowledge this is all being looked at/considered. Check out my thread in the Balance section and feel free to give input.
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    Thanks, didn't catch that. I tried the 4-4-1-2 build with just inteli boots and a grave locket, it works with barely enough mana to combo. It throws an early portal key out of the question, but usually you don't need that if you can get an ally to initiate.

  6. #6
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    Depends what you call "early"
    With decent lane farm plus kills and assists, you should stay around 350gpm unless you're either suffering or really snowballing. If you average that, you'll have bottle, steamboots, gravelocket and PK by 13-15 minutes depending on your exact gpm and buildup. You can also consider a chalice to boost your mana efficiency - it's cheaper than a gravelocket and can help you to get an earlier PK.

    Remember also that MANA BOOTS are now in the game. Everyone forgets this, but if you do the math......

    All of the following were taken with 4-4-1-2 build at level 11 with no stats spec'd and only the items shown (+PK for testing) and I have not factored in bottle sips or other heroes giving you mana in some way.

    Mana Boots vs Steamboots + uncharged Gravelocket vs Steamboots + charged Gravelocket

    Total cost:
    1935 vs 2185 (1450+735) vs n/a
    So 250 less.

    Movespeed:
    355 vs 350 vs n/a
    Not much but still a slight advantage

    Max mana:
    1177(1017 flat+160 from active) vs 910 vs 949
    This is the most significant difference - you have another 160 mana every 33 seconds as well as the flat mana increase. Add in the team utility and it's pretty big!

    Max HP (on INT boots for mana purposes):
    834 vs 853 vs 910
    Here you see the only downside to going for mana boots - up to 76 flat HP difference. Not much, but considering you have the ability to swap to STR and gain 190 max HP that becomes more significant when acting as a defensive option.

    Armour:
    4.0 vs 4.2 vs 4.6 (assuming steam boots not on agi because why on earth would they be) which is a very small advantage but we have to make a totally fair comparison.

    Average DPS:
    62 vs 83 vs 86
    20 DPS is a tiny difference but still worth mentioning.


    Here's the kicker though. Here's what it boils down to.

    With full mana and mana boots, you can do a full combo (including PK) and pop mana boots, and by the time your spells are off cooldown, you have the mana for one disable and level 1 mana drain will give you the next disable before they are finished being disabled, regardless of which way round you do it, but W lasts longer so I'd advise going with that. Also bear in mind that this is WITHOUT using mana drain during the first combo. This actually allows you to do a full combo and then use BOTH of your disables AGAIN whilst getting in all your autoattacks during the first combo (and thus actually using that DPS) If you do use it during the first cooldown, you may even have enough for another PK use, depending on how much mana drain you can get.

    With the steamboots and gravelocket, even when charged, you MUST use mana drain during the first combo to have enough mana to use graveyard when it's back off cooldown. You have no hope of using miniturisation again and you sacrifice 3 seconds of DPS during the first mini use.

    So basically, for less gold and less item slots, you have way more mana and therefore more flexibility in your ability use. Bear in mind once again that I haven't even factored in bottle here.

    So yeah, mana boots are definitely a thing. Total cost including bottle is 4785 which means you only need to average 365 GPM in order to have PK by 13 minutes, and during that whole time and afterwards, you're going to be a hell of a lot more useful and versatile when it comes to mana.
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    I didn't consider Mana boots. That rightfully seems a solid pick up.

    I however do like the Striders/Mana Drain duo for more early PK and constant roaming.

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  8. #8
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    Striders as mid? Gross.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoochMeister View Post
    Striders as mid? Gross.
    So far, you are the only one who talked about a lane.
    Neither me or OP did talk about that.

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  10. #10
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    I dont like leveling E early as Witchslayer Support, maxing Q and W is way better imo.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tartalacame View Post
    So far, you are the only one who talked about a lane.
    Neither me or OP did talk about that.
    That's partly the issue with the hero, he seems to be caught in some weird mix of roles. I would argue he is most commonly seen playing support however. I think I can say quite objectively that he is a bad pick in either role, but would opt to send him mid if deciding between the two.

    Item wise, I would opt for chalice + locket/sac stone, with steam boots, over mana boots. I've never tried the mana boot build in its defence, but I like having the additional stats on ws in general, as it means you can take greater positioning risks. Otherwise you're forced to play like a coward.

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    Sorry I guess I just make the assumption that you would take him mid, since he's a horrible support due to level dependency and item dependency when it comes to his mana pool.

    He's a very viable mid, and a trash tier support.

    Hopefully we'll see some changes to buff his mana costs and the effectiveness of his skills at lower levels, with scaling adjusted accordingly. This is aimed at making him more viable as a support.
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    Does anybody else think that witchslayer is a bit weak? I find him comparable to Fayde, but Fayde has much cheaper manacosts, equivalent damage, and has much more utility. Witchslayer has a slightly better time laning because of his attack range though.

    I can appreciate him having ridiculous manacosts to balance out the in-lane manadrain, but it doesn't work in practice. Maybe it worked when WS was released since mana costs around the board were higher and skills were weaker. Skills equivalent to Graveyard are casted for a fraction of its manacost. Manadrain as a source of sustain and counterbalance to WS's hefty manacosts is awful with cheap mana items like Chalice or Sorc boots. I don't like it when the game becomes "easier", and I find the mana costs thing to be an interesting balance point for WS. It just doesn't seem to work well in practice because everybody else keeps getting better while he stays the same.

  14. #14
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    Yeah It is

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