Main Theme: Punishment, Judgement
Will add more information with time, Q&A section will be updated on par with appearing misunderstandings. Need some ideas for 2nd skill - still unsure about it, will be really thankfull for your feedbacks.
Please, vote on concept, not numbers.
Questions and Answers
About Bounds of Choice:
[Q] If the opponent attacks with a modifying attack ability (like Arachna's Webbed Shot), are they silenced?
[A] Yes, it should work this way, orb-walk-like attack effects still result in an attack, so silence is applied.
[Q] How does passive ability work? Is it balanced?
[A] To answer this question, let's look at the comparisons:
Pebbles' Slab Skin:
- 10/20/30/40% debuff duration reduction, +2/4/6/8 armor.
Tribunal's Eye for an Eye:
- When enemy stuns you, he also becomes stunned for smaller duration. This does not remove the stun from Tribunal. Same for other effects (slow/hex/silence). Does not affect Panda's or Succubus' ultimates, Elec's and Polly's shackles.
Drawbacks of Eye for an Eye:
- Smart enemies just won't use their single-targeted disables/slows versus you.
- Does not help if enemy possess the power to kill you with raw nukes/attacks.
Positive sides of Eye for an Eye:
- Got lane opponents who can combo their disables? Picking this skill early will help you to hold such lane.
- Stay close to one of your carries - mass stuns will stun the casting enemy as well.
[Q] How does ultimate work? Is it balanced?
[A] To answer this question, let's look at the comparisons:
Necrolic (from DotA) versus Tribunal
- Necrolic - Soul Assumption skill (non-ultimate, passive, can be maxed at level 7): Units that die near Visage regenerate him 4/8/12/16 HP and give him 6 bonus damage. Enemies denies don't count. 2/4/6/16 max stacks. Each bonus lasts 30 seconds.
- Tribunal - Judgement (ultimate) - diffirences to Necrolic's skill:
- Only dying allied units grant you charges, units that your team denies don't give you charges.
- Dying units don't heal you.
- Allied units killed by neutral creeps don't add charges either.
- Charges don't have expiration time, but they are all removed upon activation or when you die.
Now about the output damage - Pyromancer versus Tribunal comparison:
Pyromancer - Blazing strike (ultimate):
- Deals 450/675/950/1150 magic damage to the target
Tribunal - Judgement (ultimate, if fully charged):
- Deals 240/360/480/600 pure damage to the target
Drawbacks of Judgement comparing to Blazing Strike:
- Melee cast range
- Needs to get charges before usage, removes them upon activation
- Not always all charges gathered when you cast Judgement
- Lower damage unless target gets Feathers
- Even lower damage compared to BS if target gets magic armor reduced
Positive sides of Judgement:
- Superior magic, so it ignores immunities
- If the damage of Judgement kills the target, his reviving time is increased by up to 8/12/16/20 seconds depending on the charges used.
hes first third and 4th skills are insanely overpowerd, his first skill is very creative tho would be a fun hero but its too op as it is
1: Very interesting and would force opponents to really control their hero, lest they wreck themselves. I don't believe it is overpowered, as it really only restricts actions of the opponent's choosing, as long as they're paying enough attention.
One question though: If the opponent attacks with a modifying attack ability, are they silenced?
2: Do spirits also deal pure damage to towers (guessing not, although the term "unit" can be interpreted in a number of ways)? Although it's a very powerful pushing tool (and perhaps interesting earlygame harass), I don't believe that high of a cooldown is fully warranted. Something around 40/35/30/25 would be more appropriate, I think.
3: Very cute, with enough general counters to avoid being team-specific. Makes an interesting point as a tank in trying to get caught in AoE stuns, practically giving the hero a pseudo-stun using the opponents' heroes.
4: Not much to say. It's a very interesting Soul Assumption-like ability. I don't know if it's too powerful (+48/72/96/120 damage leading into a 240/360/480/600 pure damage nuke), especially seeing as his chasing ability is quite limited against many opponents (har har, Armadon). Numbers can always be balanced though.
The name "Judgment", however, is currently taken by Soul Reaper's spamnukeheal.
An interesting well-rounded hero. Doesn't really have inter-synergistic abilities, but adds up to a complete, multi-role-enabled hero. T-up by all means.
Though you need a private poll for it to be viable.
Thank you all for your feedbacks!
Thinking about lowering the attack damage on ultimate from 6 to 5 per charge, which would set the damage with all charges gathered to 40/60/80/100.
Any thoughts on the seconds skill btw (No Rest for the Wicked)? Current version synergizes with ultimate cause dying spirits also give you charges, though my primary idea was like this:
If affected non-hero enemy unit dies:
- Creates a copy of that unit, which has 15/25/35/45% of the unit's max hitpoints and deals something like 15/25/35/45% of the unit's damage.
If affected enemy hero dies:
- Creates a copy of that unit, which has 10/15/20/25% of the unit's max hitpoints and deals something like 10/15/20/25% of the unit's damage.
Copies last about 20 seconds.
Woa, nice concept!
I like the name "Tribunal", it reminds me of Elder Scrolls))
Will give bigger feedback when I get time though.
Yes YES YES! I love this idea, good job!
Bounds of Choice: Great, but does the status effect have a big specail effect or is it unnoticable, so that the hero thats inflicted doesnt know?
No Rest for the Wicked: Pretty great spell if they have aoe and they accidently hiy all of them... I can see it happening too, haha.
Eye for an Eye: Unique, defiently, and is pretty powerful when they have a mass debuff team. Mabye a little too powerful. Nobody well ever what to stun you, and try to kill you with spells.
Judgement: Sweet! Increasing their respawn time is powerful, and I like it!
Goodjob, keep it up!
Yes, there should be an indication of current state. Bounds of Choice should have an own debuff's animation, plus scout's "disarmed" effect on the target if affected hero casts a spell and classical "silenced" effect if unit attacks. Though victim will know what effect he will suffer when he does an action anyway - it's up to him to choose what course of actions to take.
Okay its christmas eve and im not allowed out of my room because they are wrapping so ill type until im allowed out =)
First off, i like your skills, but i dont know what position in a team this character plays as. His strength gain is terrible for a strength hero, lower than armadon, which makes tanking hard (his passives doesnt affect nukes if im correct). His agi and int gain are decent but he doesnt seem very mana intensive due to his fastest c/d being 15 seconds. The agi im assuming is to work in conjunction with his ulti's damage increase to make him a semi carry. The 305 MS is good due to no slows of his own (if they cast spells or something) or actual escape mechs.
1st: I love it, its interesting and seems balanced, at worst 60% slow and no damage, so people cant really complain on that. Also they decide if they want to be silenced or disarmed by actions. I was wondering if items effects count as either, like the damage from barbed armour? Very interesting skill, this alone would have sold me.
2nd: Okay to be honest this one confused me, it only buff/debuff only affects enemies, and who ever kills them takes 60 pure damage or is that a typo? I dont think nuking teammates is going to go down well even if you make a free army.
This skill is think is weak at the moment, but the best way to counter it seems to strong... As they arent spell immune your army gets gibbed by any aoe spell. And cleave downs them all in one hit. But if you give them magic immunity they would be too powerful if you summoned say 15-25 each doing 15 damage, thats like 250dps for 20seconds which can only be downed by cleave, anyway ill think on it.
The other downside is that its similar to forsaken archers summon skelllies, so they may not implement it for being too similar skill.
3rd: The first thing that came to mind was tempests ulti, does it automatically cancel itself because tempest is being dragged into his own ulti stopping his own channel. And similiarly does succubus grip herself trying to grib you. In both cases this makes you immune to both ulties. Is this part of the skill mechanic?
But other than that it themes well with the first skill and you cant really complain that its imba because if you leave him alone he doesnt really do much himself. I like this, its dont throw stones when you live in a glass house :P
Ulti: Accumulates X damage, is fine, i mean rampage gets 60-70 damage because he is a rhino (best excuse for free damage). So for an ulti gaining 120 or so for shiggles is fine in my books. But the nuke is pretty heavy, rivalling Slayers and Witchslayers in damage (after damage reduction, and you cant get the magic armour to cancel it). So to balance out the nuke id increase the c/d and manacost. As its quite easy to get 16 charges (2 waves and some nuets) and your spell has very little down time
This hero confuses me because we have two very different pair of skills. The first and third are very passive qualities where the other two a vengeful. I think you need to bring the theme together more so we get a really strong feel for the characterisation you have put in.
I think with a bit of tweaking here and there this character is ready for newerth. It has a unique playstyle which is a valuable addition to hero list presently available.
PS: world of warcraft tut tut
*drools* ahem, uhh....... Very nice concept, want to see this guy in action.
btw, what do you have in mind for the attack and casting animations. ~Cheers
yyr 2nd skill you got wrong
2nd skill: pure damage is when enemy creeps already become spirits. So when enemy hero/creep kills them, they get 30/40/50/60 true damage done to them :P Killed in 1 cleave ? Thats more or less the point, as than that guy gets K.O. all by himself, especially early on :P
As for ulti, it is pretty heavy, but its also his only "nuke" and damage increasing ability, so you are on crossroad should you use that +120 damage or use it as a 600 true damage nuke. Where both Witch Slayers and Pyro's ulti's are pretty straight forward and requires no thinking, also range of their ulti's is "holy crap on a crack" while this is melee.
3rd Skill: nah ... it said in skill description that it doesn't work on "unique" abilities, like fear, disarm, etc, etc. Practically what Van meant (I hope) is that it workes on stuns, slows, immobilization (dunno if i spelled that correctly :P), etc, practically more or less on anything thats not unique or channelling ability. Unique being puppet's hold, tempests ulti. But it works for lets say - all stuns, silences, slows and immobilization skills (I think even KoTF's, but i am not sure)
Well, seems Zoddy answered all questions already, he was correct, third skill does not interrupt channeling spells like Electrician's Grapple or Panda's ultimate (and all other unique disables, like Chronos's ultimate, for example).
Well, I think he should wield a mace, it should differ from Hammerstorm's weapon though. Attack should be horisontal with decent backswing. Since the ultimate is melee-ranged, I think he can use his mace in the animation, probably mace gets a large half-transparent glowing halo (mace-shaped) during the execution of Judgement. So he makes a big hit on the target and if target dies, additional holy-themed animation is played at the spot of dying hero, to represent the fact that some time will be added to his reviving time.
As for the second skill, spirits should be light-themed small units (probably same, but tinted darker if Tribunal is picked in AP to play on Hellbourne's side).
As for casting animation of 1st spell, he should point at the victim and the debuff should appear.
Cool abilities and skin, lets see if S2 expands hero slots
I like it, but I would think about making the Ultimate a little better. Those charges seem a little hard to come by, you may not necessarily in the 45second of cooldown accumulate all 16/20 charges. With a creep wave being 5 units at and around lvl 16 you would need 3-4 creep waves to get full charges. Perhaps drop the cooldown down to 30 seconds, or increase the damage bonus (for the nuke) or give it range. If you're doing +100ish pure damage a swing at lvl 16 it may not be worth it to blow the ultimate unless someone is getting away, at which point you then can nuke them.
Those charges seem a little hard to come by, you may not necessarily in the 45second of cooldown accumulate all 16/20 charges. With a creep wave being 5 units at and around lvl 16 you would need 3-4 creep waves to get full charges.Well, thing is that as game progresses creep waves become larger. Plus, second ability allows you to turn dying enemies into allied Spirits, they also give you charges when they die.
If you're doing +100ish pure damage a swing at lvl 16 it may not be worth it to blow the ultimate unless someone is getting away, at which point you then can nuke them.Damage added to attacks is not pure, it is physical. Would be overpowered otherwise.