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I have been reading several guides to understand some concepts of this game, and I see the importance given to two concepts when playing a support class. I am trying to get better with the DSham at the moment.
The guides say that as the support you should babysit a carrier in your lane, let him get the kills, and harrass the enemy that would bug him. The guides also say that if you are the support class and you have to get the wards.
Considering the fact that I am only playing PUB games at the moment and definitely not ready for competitive play, I am just having a hard time making myself miss all those easy farm in lanes, and spending the gold that i will earn in the background (since the carrier is getting the kills) on Wards.. I just want to rush to that Astrolabe asap, and if I babysit and ward, how am I supposed to make myself better through items (which are cruical for my own survival AND my support role).
I could use some pointers on this in terms of how many lvls should I let the carrier farm while I babysit him, and How many wards am I supposed to be getting, lets say first 10 lvls or so. Whats the ultimate balance for this, in a PUB game?
Ty.
Last edited by Iseldiera; 12-17-2009 at 03:49 PM.
You don't, I often finish the game as a support/babysitter with basic marchers, power supply and homecoming stones.
Staying alive is most important so u can accumulate gold by "natural" income, also being near the kill will get u some gold. Asking carry with whom ur laning with to let u get a creep or 2 when ur near finishing an item or if u need for wards is also a way of getting some gold. Staying alive is most important.
This is in short. Every game has its flow and sometimes its better to get wards asap and sometimes its better to get items. There should be one more supporter on the team to cover what other cannot, so communicate. After all, no matter if its a pub game or not try being a team. Good communication is the key for everything. Sometimes u buy wards and that stuff sometimes other one.
If I play warder, I'll usually have power supply/bottle, marchers, and 2 bracers, leaving 2 spots for wards and TPs.
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you can nab the hits your carry can't get. honestly, most guides list like 20k worth of items, but you'll never see it, lol
try and judge early how your farm's gonna go. new nome's wisdom is cheap, easy to build, and gives a **** load of regen and armor. if you can grab that, you're good to go.
so instead of aiming for astrolabe, sheepstick, hellflower, posthaste, and 2 behemoth hearts, think of
power supply, bracer, nomes, tp stones, armor boots, wards
whole cost for this is like 5k for an entire game's worth of items, which you should be able to field fairly easily
if you dont like nomes you can build tablet of command for about the same price. it gives 16 int and pushy push skill which is very useful.
Take the last hits the carry can't. There will be times when he's last hitting one creep and missing another, or the enemy is pulling the wave back and he can't hit it because he's melee, or he got harassed away from the group, or he's pulling neutral creeps. Swoop in and make gold!
Go for power supply, nome's, wards. If you have extra gold, get astrolabe/barrier/puzzlebox/shieldbreaker/whatever. I like to start the game with power supply recipe, armor ring, and 4x minor totem in pubs and build the ring of the teacher and power supply at the outpost, but in a serious game you'd obviously get courier or wards instead of a useless recipe >_>;
See if you can find a carry player to play with frequently. We like babysitters. You like babysitting people who know what items to build. It works out.
The difficult thing about pub games, especially low psr pub games, is that players don't always know how to play their characters/roles.
If the carry you are laning with is capable, then heres the general gameplan. You are no where near as item dependent as your carry. If he is going to last hit something, make sure he does. This includes heroes. If it looks like he's going to miss a last hit because he's too far away, then get it. Your gold should be coming from those last hits, hero kill assists, and tower assists. You can also creep pull, since you should be in the creep pulling lane with your carry anyway.
Warding is very important, but it's not up to you to ward the whole map until you get to mid/late game, when you are roaming and supporting for ganks. However, at this time other players may be warding as well.
Late game a support character, if on a proper team, should have items worth about as much as the carry's items were worth about half way through the game.
I'm not an expert strategist or anything, but that's just what I've gathered from watching competitive play.
This seems pretty accurate. I'd expect a late game shaman to be rocking astrolabe, nome's, power supply, and post haste or plated+homecoming stone. The mid game sand wraith should have marchers, power supply, HotBL (optionally, depending on how well the first few minutes went) and most or all of his mock of brilliance.Originally Posted by Cosah
Farm whilst pushing. During pushes, down the waves with as much AoE as you can afford to, this will get you good gold whilst getting to the tower faster and also getting even more gold. During pushes, last hits are generally ignored because it slows down the push and is counter-productive.
IE - I never heal bomb the wave of creeps because it pushes the wave as D Sham unless I'm actually pushing.
not a massive support player but from a carry perspective its allways acceptable to let ure babysitter get some last hits, alltho really babysitters/warders shouldnt be 2 item dependent, if there getting ganked/killed late game the carrys arnt really doing there job now are they
wut? DSham is an excellent farmer dude. Early game it's all about the carry farming the lane, however once a few towers are down and creeps get massive you can grab the lane your carry isn't on and 1-2 hit each creep then use your heal.
Seriously, Dsham is one of the best support farmers.
TRY FARMING WITH GLACIUS!
Just because you can farm well doesn't mean you should. There's no situation where your team should have only 1 hero that is item dependent. You don't want two hard carries but a semicarry is going to make much better use of that gold than dsham is.
"your own items" as a support is normal boots, power supply, bracer, tp stone. That's it (unless the game is completely one sided, in which case have a blast and buy whatever). If the game goes on long enough that the bare necessities aren't enough then you got outpicked or your carries failed.
Oh dear.
Lets say your demented shaman.
And your hard carry cant carry the long run means they got Hard carry+ semicarry
And your team doesnt have a semi carry.
You can either just stick being support or pick up some carry items like Frostwolf/ charged hammer.
Sounds stupid i know but it can give just the bit more damage output what your team needs.
Last edited by LunarEclipse; 08-31-2010 at 10:13 AM.
Nice thread revival man!
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A fast astrolabe isn't anywhere near as good as map control or a faster runed axe on your carry. It just isn't.
Those guides you read help you define priorities, and from what you described they are pretty accurate.
Earning gold as support is the hardest part of playing support. You aren't going to end up with uber items, but you should have some basic stuff as others have said.
The key to earning gold with supports lies on 2 factors:
-Surviving
-Taking last hits when the lane is free/nabbing last hits when your carry can't get them
Often times in organized games there will be 2 heroes in charge of warding and each support will split the courier/ward at the start of the game. However in some games, and in most pubs, there will be only one support. When I play support (and when I'm not) I am the one buying wards + courier at start, leaving me with just enough money for 2 totems and a tree or mana pot.
It all comes down to being able to skillfully nab last hits when the carry can't, as well as pulling for your carry and getting last hits on creeps. As support I usually spend most of my early game money on wards (they will always be on CD when I play) because not only are they crucial to surviving (thus you indirectly earn gold because of wards) but they are on a set cooldown and having 5 wards when your deadwood is 6 and having offensive wards for him and defensive wards for your carry to farm bot as well as rune spot ward during the ganking phase is crucial.
When I play support I usually don't even get my boots until 10 minutes into the game, usually more, as I opt for wards, counter wards, and RotT to help my lane mate. My personal rule when playing support is that buying wards > all, as they have a CD, and whenever they are not on CD they are being wasted. Also, the new striders are a godsend for support.
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Kinda wondering how a thread from last year randomly revives but from my experience in support there are usually two routes that you can take throughout a game. The first would be hardcore support, as I like to call it, and this usually happens when you are the only visible support hero on a team of randoms in a pub (so of course they aren't gonna upgrade that courier!)
So anyways for hardcore support it usually consists of you getting the courier, upgrading it, and then warding consistently, and making an effort to give your carry as many creep kills and hero kills as possible. Chances are you will usually end a game with maybe 2000 gold on purely wards/courier/counterwards and have items consisting of some type of boots, fortified bracers, and maybe some parts to an item.
The second would be more utility support, but I don't have a name for it. Basically if your team helps with upgrading the courier, gets wards from time to time, or you end up with a couple kills early on, it usually allows you to get more than just basic items and if you can get some farm in between warding, pushing, and teamfights, then chances are you will end up with at least one really useful item along with your boots/core. For example, Totem of kuldra is an expensive, yet very useful support item that gives you a disable and near limitless mana to use your spells and make you so much more useful to your team. However, wards and map control to help gank, stop ganks, and keep tabs on kongor will always be invaluable to winning a game.
Some how I doubt the OP will even read this but hey, I'm bored and this is how I play support.
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