Thread: Outpicked - Round 9

View Poll Results: Who out Picked Who?

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  • Blockk out picked The Forums.

    56 49.12%
  • The Forums out picked Blockk.

    58 50.88%
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  1. #1
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    Outpicked - Round 9

    This round blockk will be doing the picks for me. The forums will have first ban this time. This is being posted 11 hours early because i will be traveling tomorrow this should be updated in 35 hours or so.

    Forums pick



    Only Colored Names Count as a vote

    Replays
    Match ID: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/m...p?mid=17596913
    Match ID: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/m...p?mid=17615760
    Match ID: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/m...p?mid=17768345
    Match ID: http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/m...p?mid=17783480

    Legion: 2
    Hellbourne: 2

    How this Game Works
    I or another person plays out the ban draft portion of a game against the forums who gets to vote what heroes are banned or added to their team. This game takes around a week to finish then games are hosted to play the two hero pools you can find old rounds of this game to see how it played out.


    Round 1: Forums gets 1st ban
    Round 2: Player gets 2nd ban
    Round 3: Forums gets 3ed ban
    Round 4: Player gets 4th and last ban
    Round 5: Forums gets 1st pick of 1 hero
    Round 6: Player gets 2nd pick of 2 heroes
    Round 7: Forums gets 3ed pick of 2 heroes
    Round 8: Player gets 4th pick of 2 heroes
    Round 9: Forums gets 5th pick of 2 heroes
    Round 10: Player gets 6th pick of 1 hero
    Last edited by Drasha; 12-24-2009 at 03:14 AM.

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  2. #2
    Don't ban Hellbringer, either he will or we'll first pick him. I'd say, potentially Puppet Master. Though I'm not sure.
    Last edited by Garyoak; 12-17-2009 at 03:22 AM.

  3. #3
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    Stuff i looked at when thinking about this hero pool
    push heroes
    wildsoul, torturer, hammer storm

    gank heroes
    madman, arachna, valk, voodoojester, hag, puppet, hellbringer, pyro, electrician, hammer storm, deadwoodm behemoth, pebbles


    stun heroes
    madman
    valk
    voodoo
    tortuer
    hellbringer
    pyromancer
    hammer storm
    behemoth
    pebbles

    Tiers are based on pick material with tier 1 being likely ban, tier 2 likely first or second pick, tier 3 last couple picks, tier 4 unlikely to be picked. It is all subject to this pool and would change in any other pool.

    Tier 1
    madman
    succubus
    puppet master
    hellbringer
    behemoth

    Tier 2
    valk
    voodoo jester
    torturer
    wretched hag
    pebbles

    Tier 3
    arachna
    corrupted disciple
    soul stealer
    pyromancer
    hammer storm
    deadwood

    Tier 4
    chronos
    wildsoul
    black smith
    electrician
    armadon
    kraken
    predator
    most likely scenarios if any thing other then this happens i miss judged heroes or the forums or blockk made a mistake.

    good
    Forums: ban t1 hero
    Blockk: ban t2 hero
    Forums: ban t1 hero
    Block: ban t2 hero
    Forums: pick t1 hero
    Block: pick t1 + t1 hero
    Forums: pick t2 + t2

    good
    Forums: ban t2 hero
    Blockk: ban t1 hero
    Forums: ban t1 hero
    Block: ban t2 hero
    Forums: pick t1 hero
    Block: pick t1 + t1 hero
    Forums: pick t2 + t2

    good
    Forums: ban t2 hero
    Blockk: ban t1 hero
    Forums: ban t2 hero
    Block: ban t1 hero
    Forums: pick t1 hero
    Block: pick t1 + t1 hero
    Forums: pick t2 + t2

    Quote Originally Posted by Garyoak View Post
    Hellbringer
    hellbringer is the strongest hero in the pool you don't ban him when you have fp.

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  4. #4
    Yea, that's why I changed my post, I just made a rash call, forgetting we had first pick.

  5. #5
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    1 vote for puppet master to be banned

    Hmm didn't see Behemoth. Can be just as annoying as puppet.
    Mmm I'll stick with puppet for now.

  6. #6
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    Ban Puppet master

  7. #7
    I don't see any reason for banning puppet master.

    I will vote for banning Succubus
    I like mind games, I'm not that good but I'm kind of a "technician" instead of a "killer"

  8. #8
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    Ban behemoth

  9. #9
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    Tier 1: Behemoth, Hellbringer
    Tier 1.5: Puppet Master, Succubus, Madman, Disciple
    Tier 2: Pyro, Pebbles, Tort, Hammerstorm, Hag, Jester

    He gets 2 bans, meaning at best he can reduce this pool to 4, meaning 2 for us and 2 for him. If we continue banning from this pool of best-heroes, we either reduce it to 1 to 1 or we remain at 2 to 2. Because we get first pick, 1 to 1 is the best scenario. Thus, Puppet Master.

    Pick Strat:
    Ban Puppet
    He bans Behe/Hellb
    Ban Succubus/Madman/Disciple
    He bans the other of Behe/Hellb
    We pick one of Succubus/Madman/Disciple
    He picks the other of Succubus/Madman/Disciple + 1 second tier hero.. but there are tons of 2nd tier heroes so whatever.

    In case he doesn't use both bans on Behe/Hellb, obviously we first pick the one he didn't ban.

  10. #10
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    ^
    Wait until he leaves both Behe and Hellbringer, gives us one of them then takes the other plus the last remaining "teir 1.5" hero.

    Stay premium, gentlecolts.

  11. #11
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    K, suppose he bans 1 Tier 1.5 hero next. We then ban one of Hellb/Behe. Same exact result. Either we get one of the god heroes, or nobody does and we get the best pick for second level. This isn't terribly complicated.

    In addition, I'm not so sure that Hellb + another tier 1.5 beats out Behe.

  12. #12
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    ^ If we get the choice between HB and Behe, we FP HB no doubt!

    Ban Puppet first.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by crayze View Post
    K, suppose he bans 1 Tier 1.5 hero next. We then ban one of Hellb/Behe. Same exact result. Either we get one of the god heroes, or nobody does and we get the best pick for second level. This isn't terribly complicated.

    In addition, I'm not so sure that Hellb + another tier 1.5 beats out Behe.
    Except now he's banned one of the T1.5 characters and forced you to ban a t1 character, an advantage for him. In fact you've basically taken a ban from yourself and given it to him for free.

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  14. #14
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    No don't first ban puppet, or behemoth, or hellbringer. These are the 3 best heroes, we should take the one of the 3 he doesnt ban.


    Ban succubus.

  15. #15
    I don't see how you all don't think Kraken isn't the best initiator in that entire pool. Last tier? Hardly. Ban Behe and Pebbles then win every team fight with Kraken.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny884 View Post
    ^
    Wait until he leaves both Behe and Hellbringer, gives us one of them then takes the other plus the last remaining "teir 1.5" hero.
    If we ban a 1.5 and he bans a 1.5, we can react by banning a 1, and he will ban the other 1. This outcome is equally bad though =/

    In this case it seems like we should ban a hero OTHER THAN one of the top 7, if the top 7 are dramatically better than the others, so that we can get such a hero in our second round of picks.

    I'll post after finals with my own valuation and a banning strategy based on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucisama View Post
    I don't see how you all don't think Kraken isn't the best initiator in that entire pool. Last tier? Hardly. Ban Behe and Pebbles then win every team fight with Kraken.
    Kraken is strong and underrated.

  17. #17
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    Kraken is indeed always underrated, but I think it's because he is usually played really badly, and people don't always know to stand next to the whirlpool, and against any ranged stunners it's more difficult.

  18. #18
    There is no counter to portal key kraken.

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by qtrng View Post
    If we ban a 1.5 and he bans a 1.5, we can react by banning a 1, and he will ban the other 1. This outcome is equally bad though =/

    In this case it seems like we should ban a hero OTHER THAN one of the top 7, if the top 7 are dramatically better than the others, so that we can get such a hero in our second round of picks.

    I'll post after finals with my own valuation and a banning strategy based on it.
    .
    Like I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny884 View Post
    Except now he's banned one of the T1.5 characters and forced you to ban a t1 character, an advantage for him. In fact you've basically taken a ban from yourself and given it to him for free.
    Last edited by Benny884; 12-17-2009 at 10:31 AM.

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  20. #20
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    I want all of you to remember two giant things:

    Number One: He WILL NOT ban behemoth. Behemoth is the strongest hero in the pool bar none, and the winner of this draft is whoever gets him.

    I'm serious. A behemoth / hag initiation is GG. A behemoth / pebbles initiation is GG. For christ's sakes, with all the squishy heroes in this pool, a behemoth / TORTURER initiation is GG.

    Nothing can stop behemoth in this pool. There is no sand wraith or vindicator or even thunderbringer to stop his portal key, and this pool is LOADED with aoe damage. We would have to carefully dance around creep waves any time we even thought of pushing, and even catching a couple of us together would cause us to go boom.

    Number Two: Something we need to respect down the line is hammerstorm. He has lots of deadly lane combinations here, and I don't think puppet/madman will make it through the banning process. The most deadly hammerstorm combination might be hammerstorm/hellbringer with a crow refilling hammerstorm's bottle due to hellbringer being unkillable, and making hammerstorm hit far harder with life void.... however, there are lots of good lanes for him like voodoo, pyro, torturer. Hammerstorm will be picked this game, IMO.

    I think our first ban should go to SUCCUBUS because there isnt much to compare with her cc-wise on the board. Our second ban will likely go to one of the big three, as I don't see our opponent blowing a ban on one this early.


    Benny has a point about conceding a ban to him if we ban an omg tier hero, but I think he's underrating Puppet. If behe/hellbringer get banned but we get puppet, that's a big win for us.
    Wretched Hag Guide

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