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Pebbles
Str 24+3
Agi 9+.9
Int 14+1.6
*welcome to the worst starting stats in the game. No, I really mean it. These stats are horrible. I mean, really, really horrible. At least Glacius has range, this guy has nothing. Str gain is high, with Int being just below average. So his important stats eventually reach reasonable levels.
The elemental creatures of Newerth have long kept away from mortal struggles, seeking instead to heal the destruction left in their wake. In the current war, however, some elementals have taken up arms against the daemons, and the huge and implacable Pebbles is one of them.
Table of Contents
- Introduction
- Pros/Cons
- Skills
- Skill build
- Items
- Strategy
- Skill use and Synergies
- Waiting on Cooldowns
Introduction
Pebbles is a ganker. There's nothing else he can do with his skillset. He is sub-par tank and a poor physical DPSer. He is the ultimate one-hit-wonder, with two spells that can be used singly or together for fantastic results, after which he runs like a sissy girl until his spells are back up. Don't let his main stat fool you: Pebbles is a caster.
That said, there are few heroes that can wreck a lineup in the ganking phase like Pebbles. With just a few simple items and minimal experience he can end any hero he wants whenever he feels like it. Pebbles can win most any 1v1 "fight in the woods" scenario early game. However, for maximum results, play Pebbles with allies who can take advantage of your skillset.
He is an imperfect port of Tiny from DotA. However, only the passive has been changed, and neither ability is exactly noteworthy.
Pros and Cons
Pros
- Two AoE nukes/disables for laning, ganking, and team destroying.
- One of the best gankers, roamers, and, "omg Pebbs why u go for me every time", heroes.
- Looks and sounds like AHHNOLD!
Cons
- Horrible stats
- Starved for mana
- Needs a few key items to get rolling
- Scales poorly late game
- Spends much of his time waiting on cooldowns
Skills
Stalagmites
Pebbles summons forth an eruption of stalagmites at a target location, stunning and damaging all enemies in the area.
Target ground
Enemy units
Magic damage
AoE: 200
Range: 600 *Gains 50 range per level of Enlarge
Mana cost: 120
Cooldown: 20 seconds
Deals 100/180/260/300 Magic damage and stuns each target in radius for 2 seconds.
A fairly standard stun with a twist. As a stun it's fairly good, comparable to similar ranged AoE stuns. Often you will want to combo this with Chuck whenever you can, as it deals double damage to an enemy in the air while it hits.
Chuck
Pebbles throws a nearby unit to target location, damaging it and all enemies in an area around where it lands.
Target Unit
All units
Magic damage
AoE: 300
Range: 500/700/900/1100
Mana Cost: 120
Cooldown: 10
Deals 75/150/225/300 Magic damage to enemy units in radius. Buildings receive 33% damage. Deals 15/30/45/60 Magic damage to thrown unit.
A powerful and versatile ability that can be very hard to use effectively. It's cooldown is half that of Stalagmites, so in addition to comboing it with Stalagmites half the time, you will often want to use this skill on it's own half the time.
Slab Skin
Grants bonus armor and reduces the duration of debuffs.
Passive
Self
+2/4/6/8 Armor. Reduces debuff duration by 10/20/30/40%.
A passive ability that would be quite useful early if it wasn't outclassed by his other two, and mid-late gives us a decent amount of extra survivability.
Enlarge
Makes Pebbles grow larger, increasing attack damage, move speed, adding to the power of his other skills, yet greatly slowing his attack speed.
Passive
Self
- +5/10/15 Movement Speed
- -20/35/50 Attack Speed
- +40/80/120 Base Damage
Increases Stalagmites range by 50/100/150. Increases damage dealt to enemy chucked units from 20% to 35/50/60%
A very nice passive ultimate increasing skills and stats. This skill makes his combo even stronger, especially when combined with powerful (but slow!) auto-attacks before and after.
Skill Build
Standard
Level 1. Stalagmites
Level 2. Chuck
Level 3. Stalagmites
Level 4. Chuck
Level 5. Stalagmites
Level 6. Chuck
Level 7. Stalagmites/Chuck
Level 8. Chuck/Stalagmites
Level 9. Grow
Level 10. Slab Skin
Level 11. Grow
Level 12. Slab Skin
Level 13. Slab Skin
Level 14. Slab Skin
Level 15. Stats
Level 16. Grow
Level 17-25. Stats
Stalagmites and Chuck are nukes and disables, so max them both. Grow is taken after the two are maxed, and Slab Skin is slightly better than stats. Could say more, but it's not like there's any other way to build him.
Items
Initial Items
Pebbles needs two things when he goes to his lane: +4 int and regen. The reason you need the int when going to you lane is that at level 2 you'll have both nukes. You need 240 mana to combo them. Pebbles needs +4 int to have 240 mana at level 2. If you don't have mana for both nukes you will probably lose your lane.
You can go about getting that int any way you'd like, but here's how I spend my 603 gold:
x6
x2
Pretender's Crown - 185
2x Minor Totem - 106
6x Runes of the Blight - 180
2x Mana Potion - 100
Total - 571
Now then, this is where it gets tricky. Pebbles has quite a few issues that have to be solved with items. He needs reliable mana and mana regen, he needs mobility, and he needs armor. He could also use attack speed. Fortunately, there are a few items that cover these needs quite well.
Items with * are essential, others can be passed on. For example, if you have enough for Ring of Sorcery before you even leave your lane, having a bottle is much less important.
*Marchers - 500 - Upgrades come later.
Bottle - 600 - Pebble's role as a ganker and roamer makes bottle a good choice for both holding on to good runes and a limited source of regen.
Power Supply - 519 - You can turn your early game totems into this for some clutch burst regen.
*Portal Key - 2150 - As soon as you have boots and mana regen covered, you save for this. It dramatically increases Pebble's ability to combo his enemies, as he no longer needs to use Stalagmites to get into Chuck range or use fog 90% of the time.
Wards of Sight - 200 - If noone else is getting wards, you might want to. Extra useful if you either are farming a lane for portal key or are rune whoring to gank.
*Teleport Stone - 135 - Useful and cheap.
Steamboots - 1450 - IMO the best boots for Pebbles. Make them int and between these and bottle you should have enough mana for the early game.
Suggested Build
Start with your initiation items. Buy a Mana Battery from outpost, and get a courier to fly a Bottle to you. Build Steamboots and save for your Portal Key.
This build provides easy buildup and reliable mana regen, but delays your portal key for a while.
Core
Luxuries
Let me start off by saying when I say luxuries I mean it. If you're EVER farming as Pebbles, you're doing it wrong. Sure, you last hit while laning, and you can pick up a creep wave with your combo whenever you have mana, but if you spend time farming as Pebbles you picked the wrong hero.
You can focus on either DPS or Tank/Support.
Let's face it: Pebbles is a big guy. And he earns a lot of hate for it. He ate a bunch (got fed by squisheys) and has now gotten really, really, big. But that's okay, because he has two skills that synergize somewhat well with his newly found big-guy-tank-role.
At the same time, I honestly believe trying to turn Pebbles into a physical DPSer is a lost cause. Just pick Dark Lady if you want to be doing +120 damage most of the time. However, if you get a lot of farm and I MEAN A LOT OF FARM, you can become a semi-respectable source of dps, even while providing your own disables!
Tablet of Command - 2200 - I like this item on Pebbles for it's utility and the ability to blink in, combo, and Tablet to safety. You probably won't care for the item, however, so just shrug it off and move on to the next item.
Kuldra's Sheepstick - 5675 - A very nice item on Pebbles. And really anyone. But more so on Pebbles, seeing as how the problem with Kuldra is usually, "I could use it, but I just can't farm enough". Pebbles problem is, "I can farm like a beast, but items are almost always wasted on me!"
Daemonic Breastplate - 5550 - If I had to recommend an item to work towards, it would be this or Sheepstick. As usual, it solves your armor issues. It also supports your team while giving a nifty attack speed boost to offset your ult.
Barbed Armor - 2200 - You're big, and you probably killed them a whole lot early. They hate you, and they're looking to make you pay in blood!
Frostfield Plate - 4700 - Also an effective item on Pebbles. Armor is always useful, and the aura/slow active do wonders to help your team out late.
Behemoth's Heart - 5500 - Who's gonna argue with almost 1k hp and regen? Not Pebbles!
Harkon's - 4875 - A nifty luxury item, it provides a good amount of int and mana regen, some damage, and a small attack speed boost. The real fun, however, is it's effect making Pebbles hit for 300 pure and combo for over 1k against targets without additional magic armor.
Last edited by Padawanabee; 07-21-2010 at 06:46 PM.
Strategy
Laning
You would think Pebbles is a horrible laner. And to a degree you are correct. However, if you combine Pebbles with another stunner he can actually hold his own. Especially if this hero is ranged.
Pebbles can solo mid, and due to his amazing ganking ability it can be quite effective, but only if the enemies' solo mid is very, very, bad. Thus, if you get good with Pebbles, go ahead and solo mid in a pub. But if you're playing even a 1650+ psr game, you're going to lose the lane in most situations.
In most lanes involving a ranged enemy, you'll be harassed to nothing. You're a melee who starts with 0 armor. However, starting at level 2 you are one of the most dangerous heroes in the game for the next 20 minutes. Thus, Pebble's laning success is based on intimidation.
Yes, you have to rely on mind games to come out even with your average hero. However, if your enemies are inexperienced, overconfident, slow to react, or a number of other things, you can dominate a lane as Pebbles. For you see, Pebbles needs just 240 mana and melee range with just about any enemy to kill them. That's the heroes thing. It's his gimmick. So every time you start running forward, your enemies can either disable you, run, or die. Don't harass with your spells, you don't have the mana to support it. You combo the enemy, and you either kill/send them back to fountain, or they get to harass you without fear since you are now out of mana.
Your goal in your lane is to obtain 1100 as quickly as possible. You use this money to get Bottle and Marchers. Once you have your movespeed and mana regen under control, you go ganking and do nothing but gank for the rest of the game.
Pebbles ganking potential relies on fog of war and rune control. Pebbles is probably the most rune-dependent ganker on Newerth, especially if you opt to solo mid, so control the runes for a successful early game.
Notes:
- Don't solo unless you're confident and your enemies are likely to be bad
- Lane with a fellow disabler/stunner for easy kills and intimidation
- Don't harass or get harassed, as you will lose a war of attrition.
- Farm, kill, and get your items as quickly as possible. (Durr hurr good advice guide-writer-guy)
- Control runes to the best of your ability, use haste or invis runes for easy combo's.
Skill use and synergies
Stalagmites
This skill is quite unique. It is, in effect, 4 AoE stuns one after the other. If you've used the skill recently, you may recall that it makes the rock crush noise 4 times. This is because it actually does 25/45/65/75 damage while stunning for 1 second with each crush. This means someone walking into the AoE halfway through will get hit with 2 of them.
This skill has a fairly short delay between when you cast and when the AoE gets hit based on range, and an almost instantaneous cast time.
Chuck
Has a shorter cooldown than Stalagmites, so can be used independently if there's a need.
Uses closest unit to Pebbles, so aiming can be tricky.
Deals damage to towers, but only 33%. So 25/50/75/100
Enlarge gives this ability extra bonus damage when Chucking an enemy unit.
Level 0: 15/30/45/60 (based on level of Chuck)
Level 1: 26/53/79/105
Level 2: 38/75/113/150
Level 3: 49/98/146/195
Will deal 60 damage to allied Chucked units at all levels.
Hero killing with Stalagmites and Chuck
If you were to hit a hero perfectly with Stalagmites and Chuck, at level 16, you would deal:
(Stalagmites x2 = 600 magic damage) + (Chuck does 300+195=495)
600+495
1095 magic damage. It's quite a significant amount, and they also both disable enemies while dealing most of this damage in an AoE. He may be a one-hit wonder, but it's a very powerful hit, that it is.
Keep in mind while reading all of these that your auto-attack should be used whenever possible during these skills usage. Both Chuck and Stalagmites have disables attached, and your hero hits hella hard, so any extra punches while an enemy is stunned is that much more burst you're throwing down.
Not quite hero killing, but it is worth noting that using Stalagmites and Chuck together will be enough to kill an entire creep wave during the early portion of the game. If you have free mana, this is a nifty way to get a quick 250 gold while pushing a lane.
In order of increasing complexity...
Stalagmites
Using this skill on it's own is very simple. It's a short-delay AoE nukes, so try to get as many heroes in it as possible and follow up with other spells/auto attacks.
If an enemy is moving, you will have to aim in front of them to hit them.
Chuck on enemy
Set up so that the enemy is the closest unit to Pebbles, and Chuck the enemy on itself. This will deal full damage and disable him for a second so that you can hit him once or twice.
Chuck to an area
You can use Chuck not only as a nuke but as a displacement. Some common tactics would be tossing a friendly Legionnaire into a group of enemies as a sort of poor-man's Portal Key. You can toss an enemy chasing you back into other enemies to gain some space. You can toss an enemy into a group of allies for fun.
Oh, and never toss an enemy Behemoth into a group of allies. You would not believe all the hate I had to read through after I stopped laughing.
Stalagmites to Chuck
This will be your most common attack combo in the early game. Since most enemies will run when you come near them, you will need to utilize things such as Fog of War and allied stuns to get a perfect combo on enemies. However, until then you will have to use Stalagmites on an enemy so that will be stunned, using the 2 second stun time to run into range and chuck the enemy. This combo gives you the greatest amount of disable time, but Stalagmites will not hit twice.
Arachna gets too close to Pebbs, and gets Stalagmited.
Using the stun time, I close with Arachna and Chuck her into the air.
Stalagmites + Chuck on enemy
Pebbles signature combo. You will need to be in 275 range for this combo to work, and you will need 240 mana. Any damage from any of the four bursts from Stalagmites will deal double damage to an enemy currently being Chucked. Thus, using both on an enemy deals insane amounts of damage.
I used the fog from elevation to get into melee range, comboing both spells onto this unfortunate Arachna.
Many people ask whether it is more effective to Stalagmites or Chuck first. If you're quick enough, you can deal good damage to an enemy either way. Remember, it deals it's damage 4x over the course of 1 second after the short delay. So you can get double damage during any of those. Or all. Or none.
Doing Stalagmites to Chuck gives a slightly (I'm talking like .3 seconds) larger window than Chuck to Stalagmites. It's also easier to pull off, as it can be easier to screw up Chuck on a moving target than Stalagmites.
Stalagmites on enemy + Chuck to area
A very effective combo, especially when near allied towers and heroes. You can use Stalagmites to hold an enemy down, then run into melee range to the enemy hero and Chuck that hero to an allied tower, for example. They will be damage by both of your skills and now very close to an allied tower. Very deadly.
Here's a graphical representation of the aforementioned hypothesized scenario.
A wild Pebbles appeared!
Pebbles used Stalagmites!
Pebbles used Chuck!
It's super effective!
Chuck on area + Stalagmites to enemy
Like the previous combo, but better. If you can get an ally to stun, or use fog, or blink, or just have a stupid enemy, you can run into melee range, Chuck the enemy to the allied hero/tower, and then Stalagmites them in that area. This has the added bonus of both holding them down near the allied damage dealer, and getting the Stalagmites/Chuck double damage bonus.
Here we have Arachna Chucked into the tower's range, while being Stalagmited by Pebbles. Meanwhile, Pebbs strikes a pose.
Waiting on Cooldowns
Pebbles has, as I've said before, a one-hit-wonder combo. After these spells have been used, each goes on cooldown. About 90% of my Pebbles' games are spent running like a girl while these abilities recharge.
It is your choice whether to stand and fight or run and hide. If you've combo'd an enemy and they're 1-2 hits away, you will probably want to chase. Unless their allies have just gone mia from their lanes, and they might be counter-ganking you. In which case you'll want to GTFO.
Basically, if you have the advantage, press it. You hit hard, if a bit slow, and 10 seconds isn't that long. However, if the enemy team outnumbers you, you can do much more for you team by bailing on them until your spells are usable again. Use your own judgment, but I prefer to take the, "OMG don't hurt meeee", approach most of the time. It pays off in the end.
Here's the perfect example of what I mean. This series of events actually happened in a game a day or two ago, and I redid them in practice mode as closely as I could get to the real thing. So while these pictures are all from practice mode, this is what actually happened in the game (except for the last picture, but we'll get to that).
Hellbringer shows up to steal my farm.
I stupidly use both my moves on him without getting into melee range.
Hellbringer uses all of the moves he has available. He's healed himself significantly, while I have no cooldowns.
He has his Balrog go straight in and tank the tower while he loops around. I eat a tree and wait on cooldowns.
I make a dash to the west, he chases with his Balrog, and I use Chuck, which has a 10 second cooldown, to get his beast off my back while damaging him.
Had things continued as they were going, Hellbringer would have looped around, only to discover that Stalagmites was finally off of it's ridiculous 20 second cooldown.
What actually happened was one of my allies, Pandamonium, came in and ulted the Hellbringer.
The point I'm trying to make is not that I made a good play, in fact both me and Hell sucked it up REALLY hard. The point is that Pebbles has an amazing combo, and when it's off cooldown you're very easy to kill. Know when to follow up disables with auto attack, and when to run back and wait for your spells to be usable again.
-16113414
Last edited by Padawanabee; 05-19-2010 at 06:50 PM.
33636711
1600+ game with me as Pebbles. Not the fanciest game ever, but I do end up using the regen from bottle+int steamboots for the majority of the game with few mana problems.
24609636
mid-high skilled game with a teammate playing Pebbles.
Last edited by Padawanabee; 03-21-2010 at 11:00 AM.
Nice guide, but wouldn't getting grow be better instead of maxing out throw/stalag first due to the added range on stalagmites and the extra damage for throw?
Sry man, but I can't see any image or picture. None. I'm using firefox.
That's strange, because I still can.
Also, seeing as Pebbles is a ganker I prefer extra levels in my nukes to a level in Enlarge.
Usually, no. Just maxing those skills gives more damage and you're expected to not do solo ganks to need extra range on Stalagmites. Besides, it somewhat hurts your laning because without any AS items your lasthitting will be painfully slow, you will have to attempt it on higher HP creeps and push the lane as a result. Imo grow is not very useful until you get a source of AS and/or a Portal Key for actually being near enough to heroes for the damage to be relevant. Reducing duration on debuff is worth additional skillpoints.Originally Posted by ShammySham
Great guide. Personally I prefer Steamboots for more midgame DPS, but I guess Post Haste can work as well. Especially great since the guide mentions Nome's, it's a great item on Pebbles now.
Yeah the range falls out of place as soon as you get ahold of a portal key. once you have portal key your job is to port straight ontop of them for straight up slam. also i only see a few things i dont like. i dont really like how your items are listed up, i find the most effective setup (after starting items) is to get your base marchers, then get your Ring of Sorcery, then finish marchers into ghost, then get a port key. by the time i get these im already hitting so hard i dont really need much else. but i like to grab a nice B-heart or if there is a nice tank in game i grab an Assassins Shroud.
As for the Shroud i catch so much beef on it but here is the thing. Not only does it give you a nice boost in dmg, but you can port in, combo spells, hit a few times , and if he isnt dead you can simply Shroud out of danger. Is an amazing combo if your team already has a decent tank.
All in all i really like this guide, good explanations and the pics are a real bonus for anyone new to pebs.
I don't think getting RoS is of any use for Pebbles in the current environment. Nome's is flat out better, it gives more effective mana regen (really, measure the numbers) than RoS and is better in every other aspect, including scaling. The only time you would want it built is perhaps when your lanemate is also a RoS carrier, translating to a Pebbles/Jeraziah lane exclusively since no other dual melee involving Pebbles is really viable and even that one is on the edge of viability.
Units effected by chuck take extra dmg but while they are in mid air they are impervious to damage. How long does the duration for chuck last?
Sure about that? I've tossed enemies who have died mid-flight.
So while they are in mid air they are impervious to all damage besides stalagmites?
Chuck lasts one second no matter the distance they travel. And while enemies are hard to click on while Chucked, they can still take damage.
Slight error in the chuck damage. The +60 damage is is due to the 20% base bounus you get from chucking something (hence 60 is 20% of 300). As you level enlarge the 20% base changes to 35%, 50% and 65%. So Chuck damage with lvl 3 enlarge is just 300+195=495.
No, because all targets both allied and enemy take 15/30/45/60 damage from Chuck. I'm gonna check up on that, now, but I believe that's right.
Edit: Checked it by tossing a couple neuts and you were right. While the skill deals 60 damage to allied units at all levels, it deals 105/150/195 to enemy units chucked when the ultimate is leveled.
I see the problem, now. The in-game tooltip supplies your version, while the version from HoNwiki I used to copy used the other version, probably from an earlier version of HoN. Anyway, it's fixed. And thanks for catching that.
Last edited by Padawanabee; 01-02-2010 at 12:51 AM.
Nice guide man. You rock.
Np man. Was messing around with Pebs the other day and noticed it, plus apparrently you can Chuck unrevealed invis units if they are near.
But anyway good guide. If you wanted to add stuff to it you could aways talk about Chuck tactics like:
- Toss in's ie. Chucking in allies like Keeper, Behe, Mag ect. if they dont have blink, or even for getting team members you hate killed
- Tower killing ie. if an enermy melee hero is dening a tower, throw something at him and get the tower kill
Or even just mentioning good allies to have as Pebbles and why. You know stuff that you dont see in other Pebbles guides.
Also, im just being pedantic but in your skill build section you have written "Grow" instead of "Enlarge"
no man, YOU rock. nice pun.
Pebbles is such a fun hero, when you get your mana regen and teleport, its lulz all around!
I enjoy chucking tree so he ults. so fun.
I had wondered about that. I was in a game where me and pest tried ganking a lonebut we didn't have the eye and he got away with no health, so here came a teammate of NH's a little bit later and I went to chuck my pest buddy at him only to notice my cooldown was used and pest was still next to me and all the sudden...DING! NH is dead. I thought initially I must have thrown a creep i didn't see, but now I'm thinking I threw a stupid NH who stuck around too long.
so in the end.. chuck then stalag.. or stalag then chuck
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