Spirit Icicle

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-10-2009, 10:06 AM

Change log:
15th Dec 2009:
Changed Icicles to be used with any amount of charges.
Added another hp based Icicle.
17th Dec 2009:
Fixed typo on gold amount for Vitality Icicle.
19th Dec 2009:
Lowered mana regen on Spirit.
Lowered Price on Vitality.
Typos.

Remember numbers on this can, has and will change. Vote on concept. Remember S2 will change the numbers anyways.

Spirit Icicle

Mark of the Novice (150g)
+

Recipe (250g)
=

Spirit Icicle
+3 Intelligence (From Mark of the Novice)
+Regen Ability (6 mana regen & 2 health regen per second for each charge) [Will explain how charges work more below]
400 Gold

- - - - - - -

Vitality Icicle

Crushing Claws (150g)
+

Recipe (200g)
=

Vitality Icicle
+3 Strength (From Crushing Claws)
+Regen Ability (7 health regen & 2 mana regen per second for each charge) [Will explain how charges work more below]
350 Gold

- - - - - - -

In a Nutshell...
The Icicle collects charges via last hitting. The user can then use the Icicle to activate a small regen of either mana (spirit icicle) or health (vitality icicle) which will last as long as how many charges are present when activated (in seconds).

The Purpose of having the Icicle
The icicle is used to slowly regen hp and/or mana during early game. Because normal 5v5 matches start you off with 603 gold, the icicle will be priced at 400 to leave 203 gold to buy other gear for the start.

I found that early game, it was hard to regenerate mana unless I bought either mana pots which are only used once or I went and bought a scarab which it only brings in a small increase of mana regen. The bottle can help with getting mana and health back but half the time you will be fighting both your enemies and team members for runes for that free top up (and it is 600 gold as well right from the start). The only other thing left to help recover mana is the mana battery, but this lacks in effectiveness. The enemy heroes do not use spells during early laning because they save it up for either killing enemy heroes in ganks or to save themselves in case it happens to them.

Item Description
When ever the holder of the Spirit Icicle kills an enemy (hero or non-hero), part of that heroes/non-heroes spirit is leeched by the icicle. When 15 spirits have been collected, the item will stop collecting spirits. There is no time limit as to how long it can stay full.

At any time when not in cooldown, the user can activate the icicle to absorb the spirits collected and regenerate health and/or mana over several seconds. After the activation, the icicle can start collecting spirits again (even when the regen effect is still happening).

The regen effect will last as long as the charges in seconds. So if you have 15 charges, the regen effect will last 15 seconds. If you have only collected 8 charges, the effect will last 8 seconds (but the cooldown will still remain the same).

Other Info
I will put all the info/stats of the item below as if you see it in the shop. Remember, this is intended to be used as an early game item; Sure it could have uses mid/late game, but lets focus on early. Maybe you can upgrade it by adding the recipe again but I'll wait for user input/suggestions on this.

Icicle Stats

Spirit Icicle
A charge is gained every time the user kills a creep. When activated, all charges are removed while the user is gained health and mana regeneration.
Passive Bonuses
3 Intelligence

Activation

Target: Self
Cooldown: 30 Seconds
Restores 2 health and 6 mana per charges in seconds.
Maximum of 15 Charges. [This will equal to 30 health and 90 mana at maximum charge]

Status Effect
2 Health Regeneration
6 Mana Regeneration
Value: 400

- - -

Vitality Icicle
A charge is gained every time the user kills a creep. When activated, all charges are removed while the user is gained health and mana regeneration.

Passive Bonuses
3 Strength

Activation

Target: Self
Cooldown: 30 Seconds
Restores 7 health and 2 mana per charges in seconds.
Maximum of 15 Charges. [This will equal to 105 health and 30 mana at maximum charge]

Status Effect
7 Health Regeneration
2 Mana Regeneration
Value: 350

- - -

If you like find either the item or stats unbalanced, please post and I will use your suggestions for tuning the Icicle.

**yyr_** · 12-10-2009, 08:56 PM

So in a nutshell:

Powersupply that collects on kills not spells, that can only be activated at max charges.

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-10-2009, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by yyr_

So in a nutshell:

Powersupply that collects on kills not spells, that can only be activated at max charges.

Yeah as you put it, it collects charges and uses them for getting hp/mana back... except via a different method (one I find better for my playing style and those that can last hit effectively).

Mana battery isn't effective during the early laning, both sides keep their mana full for when they really need it (eg. pushing, ganking). Instead of waiting for the other team to waste their mana so you can collect those small charges, create an item that lets the holder have control how much it fills up.

Collecting charges via last hitting lets the user do 2 things. 1st, they do not have to rely as heavily on consumables to regenerate lost hp/mana as the more they last hit, the more health and mana to claim back on. 2nd, Allows them to continue laning without having to walk/tele back to spawn, thus more experience and gold off kills (which means again more hp/mana!).

It's an item that assures if you lane safe and smart, your self-sustainable.

If my stats seem too over powered, suggest your own stats for a balanced version.

**yyr_** · 12-13-2009, 02:54 AM

If your against a tough lane with this item arent you screwed? If your versing a really strong early game team, like lion/lina in a lane. You'll have great difficulty getting the last hits, and will be harassed quite hard for doing so. But on the flip side, if your last hitting easily your probs against a bad player or lategamer and you want really need the regen. Im not sure if stated my point well there, but i hope you get the jist.

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-13-2009, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by yyr_

If your against a tough lane with this item arent you screwed? If your versing a really strong early game team, like lion/lina in a lane. You'll have great difficulty getting the last hits, and will be harassed quite hard for doing so. But on the flip side, if your last hitting easily your probs against a bad player or lategamer and you want really need the regen. Im not sure if stated my point well there, but i hope you get the jist.

By not means do I expect the Icicle to be 100% effective in any and every situation. There will always be a case where items can not be put to best of their abilities.

If you pick a character that will suffer greatly (like dieing) for last hitting early game, I would not recommend this.

It is situational like the portal key; Some characters can use it to extremely good use, other not so much. Same applies to Icicle.

Last hitting normally doesn't result in death. There are people who have 200 creep kills by the end of the match. I don't expect them to have died 200 times in each instance.

Basically if you can last hit, the Icicle can be of use to you.

**A`nub`is** · 12-13-2009, 07:18 AM

This is very interesting, you only have to ask yourself, how much you want to improve the early game of good last hitting heroes - which somehow dominate that phase anyway. So it probably needs to be rather weak to be balanced.

There could be more items aswell, for e.g.:

*+3str claw + recipe - giving only health reg per charge (granted by last hits)
*+3int mark + recipe - giving only mana reg per charge (granted by last hits)
*major totem + recipe - giving x health reg for 3 sec when killing a creep and giving y mana reg for 3 sec when denying a creep.

the idea to "promote" last hitting this way sure is nice.

**[Pfct]OhBob** · 12-13-2009, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by A`nub`is

This is very interesting, you only have to ask yourself, how much you want to improve the early game of good last hitting heroes - which somehow dominate that phase anyway. So it probably needs to be rather weak to be balanced.

There could be more items aswell, for e.g.:

*+3str claw + recipe - giving only health reg per charge (granted by last hits)
*+3int mark + recipe - giving only mana reg per charge (granted by last hits)
*major totem + recipe - giving x health reg for 3 sec when killing a creep and giving y mana reg for 3 sec when denying a creep.

the idea to "promote" last hitting this way sure is nice.

I really liked the item, and I also really liked Anubis idea of choosing between claw or mark (major totem didn't look nice for me, would be better if it was the same way as the other two). My only suggestion is to make people able to use charges before it is full, and change recipe for MANA BATTERY, which perfectly fits in the item.

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-14-2009, 05:54 PM

Ohh nice idea with the choice of either hp regen or mana regen with different items.

I will change the Icicle so it can be used before its full and get the other +stat item for other one later today.

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-15-2009, 09:48 AM

I have used everyone's advice so far and have updated my opening post.

Bump

Since I have used the +int and +str item for the icicles, any idea what the +agi could be used for? What would people wanting agi want out of this?

**WSLaFleur** · 12-15-2009, 08:38 PM

Aw, God damn it, this is another brilliantly conceived, well portrayed, completely unnecessary concept. I want to slap you for making me fall in love with it. See that? See what a monster you've made me into?

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-15-2009, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by WSLaFleur

Aw, God damn it, this is another brilliantly conceived, well portrayed, completely unnecessary concept. I want to slap you for making me fall in love with it. See that? See what a monster you've made me into?

It's nice to see that you like it. However, I could argue that it isn't a "completely unnecessary concept".

Is it that HoN already has items that help recover hp/mana early game that aren't consumables? I talk about this in my opening post under the 'purpose of having the icicle'.

Tell me why it is unnecessary and I'll use your suggestion in shaping the icicle.

**WSLaFleur** · 12-16-2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Firzen777

It's nice to see that you like it. However, I could argue that it isn't a "completely unnecessary concept".

Is it that HoN already has items that help recover hp/mana early game that aren't consumables? I talk about this in my opening post under the 'purpose of having the icicle'.

Tell me why it is unnecessary and I'll use your suggestion in shaping the icicle.

I don't want you to offer me more options for early game survivability and lane presence, we already have regeneration items for this same purpose.

Originally Posted by yyr_

So in a nutshell:

Powersupply that collects on kills not spells, that can only be activated at max charges.

This.

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-16-2009, 04:30 PM

I don't want you to offer me more options for early game survivability and lane presence, we already have regeneration items for this same purpose.

I can't force you to use it if you already have a setup that works, but do you think other players might find the icicle of use to them? Also which "regeneration items" were you talking about? I thought I had covered the most used ones.

I found that early game, it was hard to regenerate mana unless I bought either mana pots which are only used once or I went and bought a scarab which it only brings in a small increase of mana regen. The bottle can help with getting mana and health back but half the time you will be fighting both your enemies and team members for runes for that free top up (and it is 600 gold as well right from the start). The only other thing left to help recover mana is the mana battery, but this lacks in effectiveness. The enemy heroes do not use spells during early laning because they save it up for either killing enemy heroes in ganks or to save themselves in case it happens to them.

I have explained why the battery doesn't help early laning. The icicle on the other hand ensures that it will get charges because it is more controllable. Do you disagree on my explanation of the mana battery?

**Dizzi** · 12-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Nice idea! However, it seems OP already. I could see myself playing Tempest in the woods without needing much mana potions.

A little suggestion - make it a cheap item to buy as a single item. you can get many charges, and it destorys on use.

This is to stop good creep killers having an even greater advantage on lanes and will make them need to purchase more.

I don't know how batteries work when u have more than 1. do both get charged? will this happen with the icicle too?

If it turns out that this fails maybe suggest something like armor buff or something lol. could do with something like that

charges for buffs

charges on hero assists/kills to get damage boost? charges for movment speed attack speed? lol! all OP suggestions XD

105 mana? that's a lot... 105 health? that's not a lot. That needs to be revised!

**[Pztv]Firzen777** · 12-16-2009, 06:36 PM