Using your Idea to make a balanced hero you should instead of comparing stats or individual skill, compare their ability to disable, ranged / melle damage, tank, escape, chase.
forexsample, say you wanted to remake Like an "barbed armor" tank such as , but with more utility.
So you start with the core of this hero, their spikeyness. So for blance matter you dont want to make <.
So you compare their core concept ability:
Whirling blade and Cyclones,
Requirements are both need to be close to enemies, but legion require attacks to activate but zepth's are always on if you killed creeps before fight.
Damage Both are non burst except vary early game with legion,
(average of half tornadoes under enemies at given time)
4 x 30dps = 180 dps thats magic.
(averge of 1 spin per second)
1ias x 175 = 175 dps that true.
vs Dont auto attack him.
vs Slow or snare him. (dont think run away as that is true with everyhero)
So wins this category as he is harder to avoid being damaged.
Surpize factor Dont exist for any. so tie.
Farming - Zepth wins as his skills do not need to be attacked to be used, and cyclones last long enough to carry over next creepwave / spawn. Minor win
Well legion don't heal from spinning so
His cyclones have to kind of keep up with him so
Now you do this for every skill of the heros, also factor in synergies, then the hero stats.
Compare This with other heroes of its ilk. Such as tempest ult with zepth ult at controlling groupfights. etcetc
It seems to me whoever is making these hero changes are not factoring in the underpowered and used heroes.
Cuz when I do this against all the heroes that zepth can be compared to... Zepth wins! Only kraken comes close.
It is retarded to see how people play hon no days. You have people create noob games just to kill them and get a better rating. Then after they are farm they concede to lower their psr so they can farm more noobs.
First of all, if all the new guys are getting owned like this, no one will buy this game. You guys will not make any money at all. And it is morale wrong for something like this to happen because you guys are unable to manage the balance of game status and fun factor.
Suggestion: when you concede, your kills and death rating does not count. Also, when you kill people below your certain psr or kill ratio, you don't gain any status.
Incorrect. Legionnaire's Whirl does Physical Damage, and it's highly unlikely all 4 cyclones will be on the opponent at the same time unless you unitwalk someone.
It's a pretty awesome article (informative, especially if you haven't encountered balancing before), but take the example of a skill that instantly kills a random enemy with manacost 1000 and cooldown 600 seconds. Is it "balanced"? It doesn't seem right.
Law of Concessions... cool name for what every smart guy does in here =)
And we don't need a lot of math, it doesn't have to be exactly balanced. DotA isn't.
very well written guide but this is kinda like soul reaper's ulti right but without the heal... wouldnt that mean soul would have to be buffed to counter this ulti making him useless? as his skills late game become useless such as heals and dejen.
This should also include something about risk vs reward
In other words, the more risk something takes, the more rewards it should give.
For example, Valk arrow is very hard to hit, but can but up to a 5 second stun.
A targetted or aoe stun is harder to hit than a targetted stun, and should thus deal more damage/longer stun.
Really helpfull on making things balanced.
Would love to see that comin ^^
Another good point here. Agreed!
Can someone explain how scout and zeph are "balanced" the recent debuff on zephs cyclone's are decent although I would like to see a change in his third since it increases ms and evasion, scout has hardly been touched at all, Im not talking about him being another bd invis hero, im talking about him being missing for 40 min and dealing 3k dmg in half a second on less! Cronos seemed more balanced then scout
I think S2 should make more heros with all with AOE that contains a little bit of stun , a little bit of nuke , a little bit of slow , a little bit of silence and a whole lot of gay! Oh wait they are already doing that nevermind.
I would say its balanced. His IAS skill is worthless until you get high dps liek riftshards or something. The only things that make sword throw good is that it can be toggled for heal vs dmg, and acts like a blink. overall in gameplay and most contexts its balanced. if however, you kick someone in game and give all that gold to mali, hes usually really op because he can solo farm like its going out of style.
Mana Cost vs. Damage and/or 1/Cooldown
Damage vs. Mana Cost and Cooldown
Cooldown vs. Damage or 1/Mana Cost
This means if you increase mana cost, you should either increase damage, or decrease cooldown to keep the equation balanced. If you increase damage you must increase manacost, or increase the cooldown. etc.
however when looking at the big picture and comparing balance to entertainment, CaSaT is right. Those are direct proportions. If you increase balance - variety should be increased and so should entertainment. If you decrease balance (OP hero) - variety is generally decreased (op skills), and entertainment value goes down (ruined games). The same doesn't hold true though when looking at individual heroes and their skill-sets. To balance one skill alone is a combination of direct and inverse proportions, and attempting to compare one heroes balance to another gets is even more proportions. Then when you take that to entire game balance, you can see that manipulating one heroes skills will effectively change the entire game.
Last edited by pwn_U_fast; 06-24-2010 at 07:48 PM. Reason: finished post
there is "no" balancing theory - i allways get a team which finally sucks - whether in public nor in MM. I allways get the biggest newbs cuz my PSR constantly gets lower... there are no misses in my team and finally the enemies seems to play as a team... so i allways gets ****ed and my PSR will suck - even my K and EVERYTHING else will get ****ed - i cannot get em back because i allways have to play with newbs and there is just 1 who can play the game - so its 2on5 and just the "pro" dude out of my team cannot handle the whole game on his own. so please rewrite the "balance" theory and piss off that PSR thing. I like that mod "TSR" so you really see who rules and who sucks. Integrate TSR as balancing option instead of that fail PSR **** - PSR cannot tell whos "good" or "bad".
Thats my opinion - regards...
and this issue goes for str heroes = tank
not true either, as some str heroes are carries and stunners initiator pretty much everything but range