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hammerstorm for CARRY THE WHOLE TEAM imo. i've personally never seen hammerstorm as a roamer.
if you can find me a replay of it though i'll include it with your name
Forsaken Archer makes a fairly good roamer if you can either target your root well from the fog or get a stun from the lane first. Pebbles can also roam, although he does suffer from weak damage if he does.
Teleport stones are the greatest asset after boots and a bottle for a roamer. Any enemy worth ganking will be smart enough to ward up his river and rune spawns, so the easiest way to gank an enemy is to catch them by surprise via teleport. Also, a roamer will want to counter-kill any enemies looking to gank his allies. So basically, teleport stones are just as much of as important in the laning phase as after it.
the list of heroes that roam well is exhaustive. the catch is that most of these heroes are either not picked competitively or have a certain role in a lane that is too good to turn down. behemoth would be one of these if his fissure wasn't so amazing for roaming.
very rarely do you see a roaming pebbles/hag because it's a strange comp indeed that would choose these, and you'd be even less likely to see pyromancer/magmus because it's more effective for them to be in a lane (either together or with other stunners). andromeda and slither are item independent heroes, meaning if you have a bottle and boots with them, they're geared for endgame (bar a bracer or two)
i guess i'll put together a list of heroes than can roam. i just don't know if they should.
edit scratch that. i'm not going to make a list of every single hero that's possible to roam with because that hero maybe has an ability to help kill someone with if they maybe get low enough to finish off. just because a hero can roam doesn't mean they should. a lot of suggested heroes have much better positions to fill in the team.
Last edited by blueseph; 12-10-2009 at 11:38 PM.
I have something to point out or ask since i play roamer role quite often.
If you play roaming glacius why not getting boots 1st and if you are playing roaming andromeda why not bottle 1st. Reasons i think those items are needed:
low ms, rather low cd on his spell so he can chase down and spell the target again.
Bottle is a great item if u start as 2x mid and gain rune control. Also by 2x mid i mean only till the next rune appears and andro is gone. Its not strictly 2x mid so u would have 3x top or 2x bot or what ever, but u know what i wanted to say.
So i vote for bottle on andro and boots glacius.
Edit: Also i recommend getting yasha on agi roamers asap for even more movement speed. Later on u can make it sange and yasha if u need hp and additional slow or go for manta. (hack and slash or geo)
Also, roamer should take first blood (if possible) in my opinion or fb and one more kill he could get roaming items faster and then start assisting only (or killing only if its needed). There is time for assisting but being fast moving roamer is really needed asap if u want roaming to be really effective.
Last edited by En_Dotter; 12-11-2009 at 12:12 PM.
Sven was a pretty good roamer with his old Storm Bolt back in the DotA days (lower cooldown)
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getting a bottle on andro leaves you incredibly rune dependent; more so than your/their mid. you also lack stats that add up to damage when it comes time for the gank. bottle is not a terrible way to start but i just dont recommend it. between mana pots and tangos you should have more than enough regen to survive til your bottle.
a roamer will *never* have enough money for a slash. ever. roamers don't work that way. a roamer will boost your early game in the hope that it's enough to win late. a roamer at best (and i mean at best) will have: bottle, steamboots, two bracers, one tp, and a set of wards. even if through some miracle of farming you get a yasha, it'll be way too late to put it to use as the laning phase is over.
a roamer should not take first blood. i know sometimes it just can't be helped, but if you can help it, don't take it. yes, it'll help you get your bottle a little quicker, but what will that do if you have enough regen to survive for a few minutes? if you can help your sandwraith get his radiance three minutes faster, or your maliken his bkb three minutes earlier, you can turn the tide of the entire game. you aren't dependent on items. that's why you chose a roamer. your items will come slowly, but they'll come. there's no reason for a roamer to be more fed than your carry.
Last edited by blueseph; 12-11-2009 at 03:38 PM. Reason: comma splices :(
In order to play with bottle on andro as a first item u must skill stun and stats only (3-5 lvls of stats) to get some survivability (114-190hp), more mana (51-85) and some minor dmg boost. Ofc ult is taken on lvl 6. Its not the most brilliant skill setup cus of armor reduction skill, but it works fine.getting a bottle on andro leaves you incredibly rune dependent; more so than your/their mid. you also lack stats that add up to damage when it comes time for the gank. bottle is not a terrible way to start but i just dont recommend it. between mana pots and tangos you should have more than enough regen to survive til your bottle.
Roamers dont take gold only from assists since they lane a bit after the gang (w8ing for the rune or something, maybe 1 min or something) and get some gold. Also with assists and FB i manage to make phases, bottle and yasha till min 22. Its possible that only one lane is pushed but the picks decide if ur gonna have pushers or steady farming/ganging game.a roamer will *never* have enough money for a slash. ever. roamers don't work that way. a roamer will boost your early game in the hope that it's enough to win late. a roamer at best (and i mean at best) will have: bottle, steamboots, two bracers, one tp, and a set of wards. even if through some miracle of farming you get a yasha, it'll be way too late to put it to use as the laning phase is over.
Anyway the most important thing before choosing to roam is to see the hero setups. Sometimes roaming is just a fail at start (not really a fail but not needed). For example if you got a pusher team and wanna win fast, just focus on leveling so you can push asap (in that case dont get a roamer or take that kind of a hero for harassing the lane or what ever but i dont suggest roamer if u want a quick game).
Well we disagree on this one and thats all i can say. I really think roamer should take FB and one more kill in order to make ms/dmg items asap to gang more often and with more success. And i respect ur reasons since i think both of us r right in a way - im thinking early ur thinking mid/late game.a roamer should not take first blood. i know sometimes it just can't be helped, but if you can help it, don't take it. yes, it'll help you get your bottle a little quicker, but what will that do if you have enough regen to survive for a few minutes? if you can help your sandwraith get his radiance three minutes faster, or your maliken his bkb three minutes earlier, you can turn the tide of the entire game. you aren't dependent on items. that's why you chose a roamer. your items will come slowly, but they'll come. there's no reason for a roamer to be more fed than your carry.
Also i think 2 of us dont have the same view on the roaming later on. We agree on the major roamers items (boots - phases must be build on a roamer for more ms and bonus dmg imo, bottle and similar supporting stuff), but i see a roamer not only as early game heavy ganger but also as mid game distracting machine. While i roam till the towers fall, later on focus on farming and casual gangs. By farming i mean pushing lane hard and lasthitting and then tp to somewhere where u r needed. And later on you will have nice items and be able to support your team even more (this works for agi not for int). And if you r int roamer (polly, lion, succu and similar) stick with the team and support as much as u can cus int heroes dont get so much farm (exceptions exist).
One more thing, your guid suggests (correct me if im wrong) that roamer is fired when mid game stage begins. And according to the guide you dont get almost any gold and your team is doomed to play 4v5 at midgame to late game (no items and stuff). I think you cant relay on early game pwnage only but need to secure the other phases of the game. And thats why i say roamer takes fb. And btw when u get that FB the lane is free for the carry to farm on since you are most probably going back to roam/grab the rune. While u get ~400 gold from fb, carry will take 150-400 gold from last hitting on the lane till the enemy appears (this works with teams ofc, so carry takes creeps, supporter denies). Every time you gang you mess up enemies even if you dont kill them, and gang is done when the lane is closer to your tower and usually not done by twr diving. Since that lane isnt pushed your carry has time to get that gold from creeps. Thats why i dont see harm in taking 1-3 kills early but i dont do more (usually fb only and one more if i really need it).
Last edited by En_Dotter; 12-11-2009 at 05:50 PM.
i think you play roamer a little too selfishly.
you get certain items/skills that are beneficial to you alone and not to your team. not maxing aura on glacius as quickly as possible really gimps him. glacius is all about getting rank 4 aura asap, and through roaming that's going to take a lot longer than just sitting in a lane leeching xp. roaming as him forces you to take skills/items that are more selfish and much less team-oriented.
same with andro. getting a bottle and maxing stats over aurora first is selfish.
getting a first blood and one kill over your carry is also selfish. sure you get your items a little quicker, but you don't need them nearly as bad as your carry does. stealing 600~ gold from him early game is just as bad as out last hitting him for 4~ creep waves. you don't need items. he does.
Getting stats over Aurora seems forgiveable to me. The small armour redux probably won't make any more difference than the stats.
Oh, it does. Alone level 1 increases Physical Damage by about 10% (probably even more) at that early stage. Not to mention the other benefits.
Typically (and ideally), you will have 3 (including yourself) heroes beating on the victim. That adds up.