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I'm not sure how edible my chart is, but here you go*:
"Explain the chart please, I didn't understand a word."
It's showing the gold rewarded from killing towers (surprise).
Faction is a lack for a better word for Legion/Hellbourne.
Tier 1 towers being the towers furthest away from your own base. Tier 2 being the second furthest and so on. I realise there's 4 tiers of towers, but it's not important to the rest of the thread.
"That's all great, Zaigon, but is there a point with the piece of information"
Yes, in fact there is. As you can see, the total gold rewarded among the team is bigger (approximately 300g in total) when you let your faction creeps finish the tower.
"It's always been like that, why change it?"
Let's go through some pros and cons for letting it stay:
Pros:
-You're being rewarded for fencing the enemy team far enough away to let your own creeps.
-You can let your carry get the last hits for gold pooling on a single hero.
Cons:
-It encourages last hitting on gold-independant heroes in pubs.
-It doesn't encourage the "skill" of last hitting. You're being punished for landing a last hit if you're not the carry.
-If you do last hit as a carry, your entire team loses about 300 gold while you alone gain about 150 gold. So you're even being punished as a carry.
I'll add more pros and cons as the thread go on and people add in. Any additions are welcomed.
All in all, I'm against this difference in the rewarded gold. Solution would be to keep the increased gold on the last hitter, but add the remaining 300'ish gold to each of the remaining team members (about 75 each).
* = The gold values range between X-Y, I don't know the exact gold maximum or minimum, though I believe it's within 10 golds of difference. Had I known it, I would've taken the average, but it's hardly affecting the chart. The gold rewards was just taking from a single practice game (edit: ElementUser has posted the exact values on page two. Thanks!)
Last edited by Zaigon; 12-25-2009 at 08:14 AM.
Yeah seems a bit odd that you would get more team gold total when the creep kill it. I'll have to remember that from now on, it's more beneficial to my entire team to let it die like that.
Originally Posted by senzation54
Good catch. I wonder if this is intended or not.
I thought this was common knowledge no?
Carries need the extra gold a lot more then support heroes do. an extra 200 gold on a carry is a big deal and extra 100 gold for your support heroes does not matter that much.
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The issue is that on pubs Nymphora and Jereziah don't understand the difference between their need for gold and Sand Wraith's.
this is useful thanks for the information, and it isnt just 100 gold for the support its 100 gold for all heroes so it can add up a fair bit, thnxs for the chart its useful.
Yep.....this thing I noticed by mistake early on, and when I'm not carry , I usually let the creeps finish it.
Ps not 100, 115 !
hmm interesting thx for sharin
didnt knew that creeps killin the tower gives more total
i think this isn't that easy to change since it must have some sort of reason in the balance department
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Towers are hitting weak compared to dota counterparts(In dota towers shoot relativly faster)
I think the towers gives a shitton more gold per kill. Maybe that's just EM.
I've always noticed that when we decide to push a lane and get the towers, my gold goes from 1000 -> 3000 pretty damn fast without me noticing it.
The reason is there, it's illogical the way it is now.
That's completely besides the point. I'm not disagreeing, though.
If you're talking about my values being wrong, they're not. I wrote in the original post that there's a minimal margin of error, but a "shitton more gold" it isn't. If you're doubting, it's no problem to start a practice match to test it out.
And I don't play easymode, so I don't know if that's where your disbelief lies in, but a full lane pushed, taking down 3 towers and the 2 raxes (supposing you get all the last hits) will grant you about 2k gold and that's excluding possible creep/hero kills.
Sorry if I offended you.
Sometimes when I'm playing and a tower goes down via creeps, you'd get a large amount of money. Usually it pops up in the form of yellow letters that read a certain amount. The highest I've encountered is something like 450. I'll try to get proof when I can.
Didn't intend to come off as rude, I apologize, but it is quite easy to test it out.
You're welcome to post a screenshot, but I still haven't seen that amount of gold from tower razes by creeps.
Tested it in an EM game as well and there wasn't any difference.
Good catch. Fix it.
it's still good to let the carry get the last hit, unless you have like 3 or 4 carries lol
It's not unusual to have 2 carries nowadays.
If you have that, a carry last hitting is basicly just taking the gold from the other carry and it would've been pretty much indifferent if it wasn't because the remaining 3 players also lost about 100-150 gold each.
Never knew that. Thanks.
I read it here and generally i start out with saying things like this in pubs if i notice a shaman legionaire lane going to creepcut.. I tell them not to lasthit the tower is better for our solo mid arachna and madman playing with me as witch slayer. They lold at me and told me i was crazy. I gave them a link and all, but it doesnt seem to get through their thick skullz that they dont need the gold as much since a shaman can simply cast a single heal on the next creepwave b4 leavin to have more gold in the end. Superfast farming ability.... Madman doest really have that since spamming his spells is hard on his mana pool. Plus arachna has the same issue. I guess it wasnt the best team either since were playing 1550-1750 at best.
Still that sort of thing bugs me and i dont know how it can be made more obvious without drawing ur attention away from the game. A nice message in the middle of ur screen showing u the gold net from a tower is over the top. If u get ganked at that time ur likely to die. Mayb get a tutorial in this game, explaining last hitting, warding, the use of several items and nice details like these. Plus some info about creeppulling.
Some games of 1600+ have ppl autoattacking creeps, shamans who rush to a lane where a madman is farming solo for a while to cast 2 heals and get 3 creeps per heal. That sort of thing just angries me at times. When im that madman i tell them not to steal their carries creeps but since its pubs, it always results in f**k u, stupid **** till i win the game for them, after which it is
Randomplayer (Demented Shaman): gg (!!!)
Randomplayer has disconnected.
Not that im that good rofl. Just not ignorant. Ppl who are better than me in games actually said that stuff to me too when i wasnt thinkin about it and just lasthitting the creeps. Then im like O yeah... nOT WTF Fu.
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