Hey guys, so recently I've been trying to make a hontour team with 4 other players. After Scrimming, discussing roles etc, I decided that I wanted to try to squeeze us before the second cycle of hontour, knowing that we would have to join a hontour team which was disbanded, (currently three teams in cycle 2 are disbanded)
I saw no problem to use one as two of my teammates came from both teams. After speaking with A hontour admin, i was directed to the hontour rules, As you can read here :
2.2. Number Limitation and Points Penalty
a) Teams are allowed two free roster addition per season. Each additional roster addition will cost the team 20% of their total points.
b) Team may have only two (2) new players once the Cycle starts. (If a player joins, then leaves, and then another player joins to replace the empty spot, it is considered a total of 1 new player when the Cycle starts).
c)There is no points penalty for player leaving or being kicked.
Let's focus more on Point B. which states that teams may only have two new players when the cycle starts. Firstly, this seems logical because of what was previously states in point A.
But at no point does it mention making a roster change of more than two players in-between cycles. But the response I had received after stating this to a Hontour admin was that,
"in other words, you have 2 slots that people can join on, between cycles and no matter how many new players have been shuffled on those 2 spots, once the cycle starts you can only have 2 new players"
Of course i am able to understand what this admin is saying, but i don't think that is implied when reading the rules, especially when there have been "special" circumstances which allowed it to happen.
And even after stating that point, I was told that rule B was implemented to avoid that, when it clearly does not.
After speaking to another admin we had come up with some back up plans as we had waited for a decision to be ruled, A plan which sounded convenient were two.
The first plan states that we could start in Gold Cycle 3 and hypothetically be in Diamond by cycle 4, ( By adding two players during cycle 2, and Two players during cycle 3) Resulting in a 5 man roster for the team.
The second idea consisted of using players from a currently disbanded diamond team to play for the roster, attempt to keep it in diamond, and replace the player after the cycle is over meaning we would then again start as a
main 5 man roster during cycle 5 in diamond.
After waiting two days for a response and had neither received a message or any attempt to communicate with me i had messaged the first admin, which had told me they had not received a response from their superior.
I then asked a different hontour admin and the conversation went as so.
[6:13:09 PM Panny: Hello, Still no word?
[6:15:44 PM] Hontour Admin: basically, you can't add more than 2 players on the team and we reached a consensus that we're against take over's
[6:16:11 PM] Hontour Admin: you basically have only 1 player from the old roster, so you should just start a new team.
[6:16:21 PM] Panny: in bronze?
[6:16:30 PM] Hontour Admin: pretty much yes
I also asked several players in diamond for there opinion
Do you Personally, have any problem with my current team roster?
Taking over a Diamond team that was previously played by and being deducted 40% of our points?
iG player* : I do not, no.
xCet player*: u have my support
sG player*: wouldn't really care no
In conclusion, I feel as if keeping a team which has players who have played in diamond and also belong in diamond Should have the privilege of doing so.
Failing to do so will result in 6 Weeks (42 days) = 1 month and 11 days where each tournament game is against teams at a lower caliber. In other words it would take us (as a team) or any team for this matter who started now
this much time to get into the diamond division where we will also be entering in cycle 5. Halfway through the season. This will fail to have a team improve and also ruin chances of them getting much better practice then needed.
I do not mind starting with 0 points in diamond as long as we can compete with teams who have the same skill level.
Now in all honesty, who wants to see a bunch of 1900-2000 MMR players go into bronze, silver, and gold and ruin the bracket stage by stomping their way to diamond. The response I got was that "They are implementing and not allowing us in diamond to ensure that "teams can stay together longer". But the only result of this forces players who are clan less to join a hontour team in diamond if they want competition at their level.
What my question is, is why aren't teams with players previously on the roster not allowed to compete with roster changes? Sure give them a punishment, take away all of their points, nullify the advantage that they have, But forcing them to start from the beginning of the division because they were not able to play the qualifiers, or were in different teams which disbanded to now have nothing left to go to? If that is the logic that this tournament is being run through then I assume I should cancel my plans for summer, Make a hontour team, qualify for diamond, kick all of my teammates, and disband the team. Because apparently that is ok. I guess things are run different in hon than in any other competitive esport, or sport for that matter, Forcing the veterans to start over.
Anyway, I could go on forever, But I would like to thank some of the hontour admins for being reasonable, sadly the great ideas we had for our hontour team have to go to waste. Sadly some people who have spent over 10,000 hours on this game are not given an opportunity or shown more respect than anyone else. But hey if that's how you treat your players, than posting a thread like this on the forums is equally even.
At this point, its not about my team getting into diamond, its about being clear, and respectful to players and hopefully treat it with the same respect the player is treating it. This post is also to let other teams know for future reference, to make sure that even if you dislike each other in a team, stay together, or you will have to start over.
There are plenty of other topics i could have gone over which other players share similar concerns about and were completely ignored, but for now. let this be the message.
I apologize for any typos, Its been a long day, and an even longer post!
Have a nice Day,
From your only Greek Boy,
Last edited by Panny; 08-24-2013 at 12:32 AM.
Panny, I fully support you and any future endeavors. Let's get Milkfat the man himself, to come to this thread and finally show some true respect you deserve.
Get this team into Diamond.
start a new team start at the bottom makes sense. otherwise your taking away a spot from someone who worked through gold. Does it suck? yes. Sorry. but thats my opinion
Sadly after i spoke about all of the solutions, even with dropping to gold and starting in it during cycle 3, Apparently that conversation was ignored and i was told the only way to play with my team was to start in bronze
Well taking the spot of a winner in gold seems pretty unfair, what seems most reasonable is letting pannys team play in gold for a cycle and have them fight for a spot in diamond since there are only 30/32 teams in gold as far as i can tell.
I support OP aswell..
sorry to say. but hontour, when coming to roster changes, you guys went fully retarded.. #bad4thescene.
Pretty much this. I see no reason not to let them try.Well taking the spot of a winner in gold seems pretty unfair, what seems most reasonable is letting pannys team play in gold for a cycle and have them fight for a spot in diamond since there are only 30/32 teams in gold as far as i can tell.
I don't understand them telling you that you could start in Gold doing what you wanted, but then back out when the next person responds. Kind of a joke. Is this a real company's customer support? Those of us who paid for this game to keep you guys from bankrupting in early stages continuously get shown what a joke things have become at S2. I really wanted to like them, but little things like this are just a downward spiral that's been happening for years.
#freepanny + #honbestmoba + #competitive scene.
[11:04:47 PM] Rene: but i just calculate people
[11:04:50 PM] Rene: when i meet them
[11:04:57 PM] Rene: and then pretty much know how to manipulate them
[11:05:01 PM] Rene: except for my friends ofc
[11:05:01 PM] Alex "sender" Wieker: dam you calculated me?
[11:05:08 PM] Rene: u count as a friend
[11:05:13 PM] Alex "sender" Wieker: yesss
I support panny 110%
This is an injustice. He is my favorite pro to watch and think something needs to be done about this.
why are people still trying to compete in hontour? dotatour has 2x the gold coins in the price pool
edit: on a serious note tho, really good for the scene to put a top level team in the bronze league, great decision by great 1500 hontour admins