Forsaken Archer

[[Empr]Rean]

phase+whispering means whole early game you run around with 700hp
1 stun and you are done
its a matter of preferance maybe,but i wont recommend going glass cannon builds to not-so-pro players

[Shelok]

So... that 23/6 game was shortly followed by a 4/13 LOL. God i'm impatient

[[LC]pk_thunder]

what i do is wayyy off course with this guide lol

i usually go phase -> whisper helm -> geo bane ->bkb -whatever (nullfire first if needed)

good damage and survivability cant go wrong with that

well that's more of a ganker build cus of the phase, the guide suggests a hard carry build

One of the funnest games I've had with FA is posted below, constructive criticism appreciated. Nullfire/Geo build - Shieldbreaker luxury.

Rean advises against "glass-cannon" builds, please tell me what build I should have gone at certain points in the game.

Thanks

23/6 - 56 min game.


Match Details for ID 3925078

I seems like u won more cus of skill

their scout was HORRIBLE, I lol'd at his thunderclaw...

CD had bad farm, little items and gmarchers

u had 2 str heroes so u should have been fine and legion didn't output a lot of DPS

[[2mn]McDuffs_Beer]

I saw a pro gamer in a competitive game get

The main utility he got out of this was the ability to control neutrals.

He was constantly using his controlled creeps to farm the jungle for him whilst he had his FA elsewhere - a dominated creep lasts for the entire game until it is killed, so he would send one to the fountain if it got low.

I'm not entirely sure if it was worth it, but he certainly was getting alot of money, his GPM was soaring and he carried the game to victory.

[[LC]pk_thunder]

Hey Rean, u should but BKB on the ganker build to cus the ult is still channeling ~.~

I saw a pro gamer in a competitive game get

The main utility he got out of this was the ability to control neutrals.

He was constantly using his controlled creeps to farm the jungle for him whilst he had his FA elsewhere - a dominated creep lasts for the entire game until it is killed, so he would send one to the fountain if it got low.

I'm not entirely sure if it was worth it, but he certainly was getting alot of money, his GPM was soaring and he carried the game to victory.

are you a pro player by any chance?

are we pro players by any chance?

sure we can all creep stack but most of us ofc will do it less effective (somehow) or just forget to do it because we're not pros

it's a nice item but the problem is lifesteal on archer is just bad, shieldbreaker is a much better asset to ur team. archer doesn't really need anything to help her farm either cus of her skellies and her not-so-good splitshot. if u wanna play a turtle strat try it with :chro: instead

[[2mn]McDuffs_Beer]

Some good arguments for Frostwulf vs Frostburn

However, what you write about the extra 15% slow on frostwulf being counteracted by the extra 16% increased speed of frostburn isn't exactly correct

If the map were a straight line without any objects, and the game was only you vs one other person then what you say is completely correct

This is not the case. You haven't factored in how much the extra 15% slow on each target helps your entire team in fights - a slowed enemy benefits everyone; it can help your team mates to catch up or run away.

Secondly, because of obstacles and the layout of the map, even if you can run at the same relative speed with frostburn - the enemy will always get to points of safety quicker if you have frostburn, it just means you will get their quicker too. You can't chase indefinitely and in this sense a slow is more useful

Here is a 1v1 example: with frostburn you initiate a gank on someone who decides to flee. You slow him by 15% each attack, and due to your 16% increased move speed are easily able to keep up with him. However due to his large amount of hit points he is able to enter his base before dieing, and even though you could still keep chasing him it would be unwise to do so.

On the other hand: with frostwolf you initiate a gank, he decides to flee. You slow him by 30% each attack. With your loss of 16% move speed you are slower - but so is he as you are slowing him by an extra 15% so your relative speed stays roughly the same. It took you both an extra 5 seconds to enter his base and because of this you were able to kill him before he got to his point of safety.


And then you factor in how much the extra 15% slow also helps your team catch up to him, where they can cast their own abilities. Or an extra 15% on three fleeing targets which helps your team catch up to all three enemies.


In other words - the frostburn vs frostwolf debate cannot come down to "Frostwolf slows by 30% but frostburn gives 16% extra speed and thus cancels this out"

The extra slow, and the extra speed are both independent with different advantages. They cannot be measured on the same scale.

The extra slow helps your team more, and in a chase situation where their are points of safety the fleeing hero can reach both people being slower benefits the chaser more

The extra speed helps you to kite easier and escape easier but it doesnt make frostburn's slow just as good as the slow on frostwolf.

[[2mn]McDuffs_Beer]

Hey Rean, u should but BKB on the ganker build to cus the ult is still channeling ~.~


are you a pro player by any chance?

are we pro players by any chance?

sure we can all creep stack but most of us ofc will do it less effective (somehow) or just forget to do it because we're not pros

it's a nice item but the problem is lifesteal on archer is just bad, shieldbreaker is a much better asset to ur team. archer doesn't really need anything to help her farm either cus of her skellies and her not-so-good splitshot. if u wanna play a turtle strat try it with :chro: instead

No Im not a pro player, what do you mean by that?

If you mean because we aren't pro players we shouldn't attempt the strategies they implement then I would disagree - with enough practice a relatively competent player would be able to use whispering helm just as effectively as any pro gamer.



Otherwise, the comment was just used to make a point incase it was overlooked. I then read all the other comments (20 pages is alot) and found others had argued this perspective on whispering helm before and you had been through this process.

And after reading them all I would probably agree with the concensus that whispering helm makes FA a bit too squishy, and that modifier doesnt help the team the most

[[LC]pk_thunder]

ur posts are big...

Some good arguments for Frostwulf vs Frostburn

...

FA is not support thus she should not support the team and rather get items that boost herself (unless if she is in a semi-carry role with a hard carry)

No Im not a pro player, what do you mean by that?

...

no, my point is just because pros do it doesn't mean we should, especially because of different situations that everyone is faced with during HoN (what, does every game have the same heroes/players in it?).
whispering helm is not just about the effectiveness of it, but it's also about the ORB.
a pro player might of gotten whispering helm because of many reasons, but lifesteal on archer is just bad.
archer doesn't need lifesteal, what she needs is a shrunken head, frostburn/wolf or shieldbreaker, and a savage mace to carry.
anyways, splitshot is a crap skill but with an orb it can be used to good effect.

[[Empr]Rean]

gonna get rid of frostburn
updates will follow soon

[Spathi]

Rampage should be added to the list of feared enemies. FA is squishy, has no means of escape besides root, and a Rampage can get out of that with his ultimate. I don't play FA much, but as Rampage she's one of my favorite heroes to squish.

[[Empr]Rean]

rampage can rape a lot of heroes 1v1 but since he is trash pick right now i think its not necessary D:

[sHoWTiMe]

I have one question concerning riftshards.

Can it proc on every arrow or not?

[[Empr]Rean]

no,only main target
Guide to items proc by Norroar http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=48830

[Jigglyballs]

lol i was looking for a Forsaken archer guide and i remembered this one!
u guide i think is pretty nice props!

[Evil_Is_Back]

If u dont take call of the damned with archer u are a damn fool.

Also if u dont get frostwolf ur silly. period.

[[LC]pk_thunder]

If u dont take call of the damned with archer u are a damn fool.

Also if u dont get frostwolf ur silly. period.

1) I guess u can't read?

2) tbh frostwolf is situational cus the orb gives no dmg boost and the item itself doesn't give much dmg either. it is a solid choice if u need to be beefy and u have a hero that can clear creep waves in a blink (of an eye).

[Shelok]

Nice FA nerf today, effing gay. Reduce volley radius/remove ministun and add a crappy 30 max damage at lvl 4? STUPID

[[LC]pk_thunder]

also zeph doesn't have a stun anymore.

[Shelok]

I cried /ragequit HON /uninstall because they beat the effing hell out of my girlfriend the FA

[[LC]pk_thunder]

not that horrible of a nerf, tbh they did it with most other carries. now she just depends on the team to supply real cc