Which Abilities and Items Stack, 8/19/10

[[ZZD]Habile]

Excellent guide. This should be Required Reading for all new players... and maybe some old players who still haven't figured it out yet. =)

Can we nominate this for a Premium Guide? It's well formatted and comprehensive.

Heh, as much as I'd like to see more players understand how these things actually work, ElementUser is right. This just gets into the mechanics, and although much strategy could be extracted from this, it doesn't actually tell a player what's viable as far as strategies go.

[Opax]

but still, this deserves a premium guide more than most guides here.

[[KSuP]Integria]

Something you may wish to add to your extensive list, Habile, under the section including Jereziah and Night Hound for heroes that have their criticals increased by abilities.

The added 125 bonus damage from breaking Assasin's Shroud, while not actually showing as your current damage, does fully increase the amount you crit for (given that the breaking hit IS indeed a critical. :P).

[[ZZD]Habile]

Something you may wish to add to your extensive list, Habile, under the section including Jereziah and Night Hound for heroes that have their criticals increased by abilities.

The added 125 bonus damage from breaking Assasin's Shroud, while not actually showing as your current damage, does fully increase the amount you crit for (given that the breaking hit IS indeed a critical. :P).

Ahh, that's right, and Pounce as well. Thanks for that, Integria.

[Behbista]

Perhaps if it can't be a guide since it isn't a guide, incorporate it into a HoN manual.

Very good information, thank you for putting it together Habile

[Glull]

give the man a puzzlebox :P

[[PoRa]psyclog]

Daemonic Breast Plate?
http://honwiki.net/wiki/Daemonic_Breast_Plate

+5 Armor Aura

[Lucretius]

In the section about armor, could you include something about how the activated buffs from Astrolabe and Plated Greaves factor in?

- Are they subject to diminishing returns based on the amount of armor you already have?
- Do they conflict with one another or give you a flat stack of +4 when both activated?
- What is theoretical maximum one can stack armor through a combination of the various means? Wearing it, Aura, Activated Buffs?

[[ZZD]Habile]

Daemonic Breast Plate?
http://honwiki.net/wiki/Daemonic_Breast_Plate

+5 Armor Aura

Not an Exclusive Modifier, and as such it stacks with the other armor auras. Thank you for your input, though. There are probably things still out there that I've missed.

In the section about armor, could you include something about how the activated buffs from Astrolabe and Plated Greaves factor in?

- Are they subject to diminishing returns based on the amount of armor you already have?
- Do they conflict with one another or give you a flat stack of +4 when both activated?
- What is theoretical maximum one can stack armor through a combination of the various means? Wearing it, Aura, Activated Buffs?

Astrolabe and Plated Greaves appear to work completely independent from one another, i.e., no shared cooldowns, and the buffs stack.

Armor effectively increases your base health by 6% per point. If you have 1000 health, 10 armor will effectively increase that by 60%, so that it would take 1600 physical damage to kill you.

Therefore, armor does not suffer from diminishing returns. Even with 10,000 armor, a single point will still add 6% of your max health (the numbers you see in game) to your effective health (the actual amount of damage you can sustain).

Magic armor works the same way.

edit: Ah yes. I'll see what I can drag up as far as potential armor goes.
edit2:
199.88 Armor.

11.88 : Legionnaire
31.88 : Taunt, +20
121.88 : Frostfield Plate * 6, +90
126.88 : Daemonic Breastplate, +5
131.88 : Abyssal Skull, +5
133.88 : Astrolabe, +2
135.88 : Plated Greaves, +2
147.88 : Nature's Protection, +12
159.88 : Cursed Shield, +12
169.88 : Galvanize, +10
199.88 : Boosted Storm Cloud, +30

This excludes Jeraziah, who would boost that by 990 if you remove Hammerstorm from your team. This could probably be raised higher, as I can't imagine that I actually thought of every possibility for that. edit: There's probably a neutral creep that can give armor. Perhaps the Ogre Magi one, or whatever it's called.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Does anyone else feel that armor mechanics should be added to this guide? I'm not exactly sure if it's entirely relevant, but that's just personal opinion. Further input would be appreciated.

[[S2]ElementUser]

I think armor should be for a separate thread.

Oh also you forgot the Ice Ogre's Icy Cold Armor's armor buff .

[Dekal]

Items within each of the following categories do not stack with each other:

Attack
Chain Lightning
Lifesteal
Mana Combustion
Movement Speed
Movement Speed Multipliers
Mana Battery
Magic Armor
Mana Regen Aura
Armor Aura

So I assume that getting whispering helm + frostburn on Magebane is theoretically retarded?

But, having JUST tested it in a game, it completely stacks. I have lifesteal, manaburn and the frostburn debuff is applied, too.

That's not supposed to go down like that, is it?

[[S2]ElementUser]

Oh it's a bit of an ambiguous wording issue. What he means is that modifiers of the same type do not stack with each other, but each type stacks with a different type.

I changed the wording a little bit to make it a bit clearer

[Dekal]

Oh it's a bit of an ambiguous wording issue. What he means is that modifiers of the same type do not stack with each other, but each type stacks with a different type.

I changed the wording a little bit

Hm. Guess it's a balancing issue then, which I won't get into because evidently people seem to think it's fair.

But ok, I think I can comprehend the list to its full then, thanks.

Though this is definitely the most drastic mechanic change from DotA, I reckon.

Edit: But it looks like, still with my newfound comprehension, that Nome's Wisdom 1+ mana regen and Ring of the Teacher's something+ mana regen auras shouldn't stack, but I've noticed that if one carries Nome's Wisdom and another one carries Ring of the Teacher, you get both auras, and should memory serve me correct it also did buff the mana regeneration (checked with mouse-over over manabar)

Was that a brain fart, then?

[[ZZD]Habile]

Hm. Guess it's a balancing issue then, which I won't get into because evidently people seem to think it's fair.

But ok, I think I can comprehend the list to its full then, thanks.

Though this is definitely the most drastic mechanic change from DotA, I reckon.

Edit: But it looks like, still with my newfound comprehension, that Nome's Wisdom 1+ mana regen and Ring of the Teacher's something+ mana regen auras shouldn't stack, but I've noticed that if one carries Nome's Wisdom and another one carries Ring of the Teacher, you get both auras, and should memory serve me correct it also did buff the mana regeneration (checked with mouse-over over manabar)

Was that a brain fart, then?

Hmm, from a technical standpoint, you should see both auras affecting you; there shouldn't actually be any change in your regen rate, however. Hah, I'm rather curious now, and feel like checking in game. I had tested the armor bonuses a while ago; it would certainly be odd (and probably considered a bug) if the mana regen stacked.

On a further note, this guide needs a little updating now. I'll need to add to the Harkon's section, and possibly incorporate parts of it into the modifiers section.

[[S2]ElementUser]

Habile, can you update this a bit?

From version 0.1.66:

- Attack abilities (Webbed Shot) and attack toggles (Harkon's Blade) now override attack modifiers (Frostwolf, etc)

[[ZZD]Habile]

Certainly! I've been a little busy as of late. I'll see what I can do before the weekend's over, though.

[GGreenBass]

Can you be more detailed on Forsaken Archer's split shot? I know that split shotting doesn't increase lightning proc chance HOWEVER it does apply the Frostbrand and Shieldbreaker effects. Idk what other effects it may have (brutilizer, etc) but if you could have these in your post that would be IMMENSELY useful so I don't buy the wrong items on her (assuming I want to try them out).

I'm going to try with some of the other ones, see how that works.

[[S2]ElementUser]

Split Fire is covered extensively in another thread here:

http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=48830

[[iDmT]laserblade]

Do Savage Mace ministuns stack?

Like if all 6 proc, 0.6 seconds of stun?

And proc chances do diminishing returns?

[[ZZD]Habile]

Do Savage Mace ministuns stack?

Like if all 6 proc, 0.6 seconds of stun?

And proc chances do diminishing returns?

The procs are all independent, so yes, they're "diminishing" in a sense. Two will not give 30% chance, instead you have a 27.75% chance to proc.

72.25% for neither. (0.85 * 0.85)
2.25% for both. (0.15 * 0.15)
12.75% for one. (0.15 * 0.85)
12.75% for the other. (0.85 * 0.15)

27.75% for either. (1 - 0.85 * 0.85) <-- Subtract chance for neither from 100%.

In your case, 62.285% (1 - 0.85^6) chance to proc any of those six, and 0.0011% (0.15^6) chance to proc all of them.


Stuns do not stack. The stun with the most remaining time will override the others.