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  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #1

    Improving HoN!

    Hey everyone! For those of you who don't know me, I've been a Creative Designer for ~2.5 years, and am currently the Product Manager for HoN. I'm posting here because I'd like to create more communication and transparency between S2 and the community!

    HoN has recently undergone an internal direction change; HoN is for hardcore players. By hardcore players, we mean dedicated players who log in, love, and play HoN all the time (probably most of you reading this thread!). S2 has always been dedicated to improving HoN, and we firmly believe that by making HoN the best game it can be for those who play it most, it will attract the players who want the best MOBA experience.

    Keeping that in mind, HoN has a few potential improvements in the works, most of which were inspired from community discussions and input from these forums (and coincidentally, are in addition to the upcoming huge patch!) I'd like to inform you guys about some of the improvements and gauge your opinions of these possible changes, how you think they should be implemented, and what else you all think HoN needs to better to better the experience.

    Potential Improvements:
    • Persistent Groups
    • Courier Usability Rework
    • Rolling Stats (specifically for leaver %)
    • A League System
    • Stats/No-Stats Match Making Queue Variants (possibly to replace basic/verified)


    Separate threads have been created for discussions on the specifics of the Courier Rework and League System.

    HoN League System Discussion:
    https://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/s...tem-Discussion

    Courier Rework Discussion:
    http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ork-Discussion


    For this thread, I would like to have a discussion about what improvements HoN needs!
    Obviously there are technical and manpower restraints as to why some things are easier to be done than others, but I would like to hear what all of you think would really improve the game and your reasons why.

    Last edited by Buro; 04-10-2013 at 06:19 PM.

    S2 Games: Dedicated employees serving dedicated gamers. Continuous development. Never-ending improvement.
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  2. #2
    1. More unique skills for new heroes. I know it's not that easy but I get the feeling S2 is too conservative on this subject. As if they don't dare to implement a skill that might be controversial but at the same time bring something new.
    There are so many ideas from players everywhere that don't have any unrealistic requirements to develop. Personally I don't mind if you borrow ideas from other MOBA games, as long as the hero in HoN feels fresh and unique. You can even borrow ideas from completely different games. Any game with a player and super powers, you can use that! Just convert it to the HoN universe. Skills like skill stealing or entering someone's mind, controlling the enemy hero for 3 seconds. More skill shots, skill shots that maybe involve a small mini game or combo in order to get the best out of it (thing of hammer throwing at the olympics or pressing QWER combination in the right order to pull off a crazy skill). You might think "oh that's crazy, and it doesn't fit in our game", but why would it be? You can be the first MOBA to introduce something fresh and succesful, I can imagine heroes with such skills will be very addicting to play with.
    Stop being conservative!

    2. New players should be forced to follow a short tutorial first which also lets them assign hot keys for their skills and inventory (so that they are less likely to click it with their mouse). Give them a little practice to use it quickly and things will go a lot better.

    3. The bots is a dying project, most of us saw it coming, apparently S2 claimed that the community was shouting it out everywhere asking for it (never saw those requests), but who's actually using the bots? I don't think it was a bad idea, but it's still not user friendly enough for 99% of the community to actually make a bot themselves. Be it laziness or just incompetence, without an easy to use generator that lets you make bots yourself by just clicking what you want and convert it to code, I don't see any bright future for this project.

    4. Stop releasing so many expensive alts, even for collectors this is just too much. I'm happy with the black legion set, but now there is a golden alt for Devourer coming AND a new hero. I've been buying everything from the start but don't overdo it....

    Something less important:
    5. More Korean themed things. Yes I'm biased, but you also have a Korean market you should care about. Introducing a something like a Gumiho (nine tailed fox) would be nice. Like LoL's Ahri, I hate referring to other MOBA's but they are doing it right.

    Updated (29 april 2013):

    1. S2 should stop hyping up stuff they will release. Even if it's not their intention, it's really annoying because the teasers don't provide anything. For example the thread about the balance patch that's coming. It gave the message like "OMG COME HERE NEW BALANCE PATCH!!! IMPORTANT!!!" followed by the content "oh hey balance patch is coming but we're not going to tell you anything, bye". It's really annoying.
    What's wrong with providing information you can already provide? It's not like your income will suddenly drop or that players will suddenly leave.
    If you can't do that then stop teasing us from such a long time before things actually get released. I'd rather have some more information and wait longer without knowing it then get teased many days before.
    Last edited by Alumando; 04-28-2013 at 07:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Personally I would like to limit the types of players I get matched with. I think you should be able to set a ms limit to the people you can be matched with, like no one over 110ms, would eliminate always being matched with foreigners, which as an American playing on the AMERICAN servers, is rather annoying. Also, GIVE US DEATHMATCH ALREADY! And a map editor so we can create things such as tower defenses. I was personally involved in creating the GOLEMS (original) SC Custom map as well as ZTD on Wc3. I would love to develop a TD game using the HON engine and units.

  4. #4
    i S2, i just wanted to share something I've been thinking about.\

    After this new pack of alts (nice and awesome) , i think you guys are leaving important thinks aside, like try to find a good way to have better experience playing a game without trolls , flamers, griefers, smurfs, etc.... , it's really frustrating that 1 out of 3 games is ruined by one of these people, we need to find ways and ideas to improve this side of the game, my suggestions are..

    1- when the game ends, give every player 2 votes, 1 vote is used to ''HONor'' an enemy who played nice and was polite as well, and the other vote for one of your own team who was nice and helpful , and make an HONor rating , most HONored people can redeem tokens and choose to not loose mmr for the next 5 match for example, or get 100 silver coins when they reach X amount of HONor points (you can vote null)

    2- most HONored people can help to view RAP cases and help to decide if the player was guilty or not....

    3- when you choose fairer matches you will be mostly paired with people more or less as HONored as you...

    4- if you were reported and they found you guilty, they will take out half of your HONor points...

    5- 1 or 2 days a week, make a ''clinic'' for newbies, new players will be paired with high HONored people and this matches will be for fun and to teahc new players how to play HON, maybe make a reward for newbies for getting for example first blood, a nice juke, good wards, etc.... , rewards will be given by HONored players, they will show like when you finish midwars, if there is a smurf or troll between the newbies, HONored players can insta kick and report him , this case will be high priority and the account will be banned for x days

    6- yes, 5 men queue will vote for themselves to boost one of them, but enemy team has a vote too and the right to RAP someone, trolls, smurfs and griefers will fall soon or late and half of his/her HONor points will be taken out, also, at some point they will solo queue as well

    7- you can give new ideas to refine this.......

    at the beginning is going to be confusing, but after 2 or 3 months, results will show up for sure, i want to see matches between people with 50-100 HONor points

    i think HON is a little bit stressful because we only have MMR and lvl to rate a player, we need to rate players for being nice and helpful, we can make this game better for all of us, that are my 2 cents..... thanks

  5. #5
    Have 2 versions of the game/map. A "Balanced" version, that we can use for tournament mode etc. And a constantly updating version, so that people wont have to wait an entire Hontour season before any balance changes happen. I understand the restraints in putting too many balance and game changes that hits the core of the game, in the midst of a tournament, it's not fair to the competitors, but the rest of us (99% of the players) who dont concern ourselves too much with tournaments, 9 months without any REAL balance and game changes is way too much. Balance and tweeking has to happen on a weekly basis, if you want the game to move anywhere.

    Another thing, is finally keeping your promise of custom maps and game modes. You already differentiate between Matchmaking and Public games. let us be able to host, upload, download and play custom games with each other!

  6. #6
    Custom maps being officially supported and playable online! Would be so much fun and add another way to enjoy the game aswell

  7. #7
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    How about updating the guide support so it includes newer items! or fixing the bugs that occur when you want to do your spell selection? those kind of things go a long way towards improving the gameplay!

  8. #8
    There should definetly be some kind of turnaments for the player that are not so good, so that like every weekend there are some tunaments, where everybody can register ingame, so you dont gotta sign up for hontour, and then its no like you gotta win 100.000$ maybe it could be like some goblincoins, or silvercoins, or some special alt avatars, something like that would be really cool, it would get a lot of players to hon.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by FIDI View Post
    Personally I would like to limit the types of players I get matched with. I think you should be able to set a ms limit to the people you can be matched with, like no one over 110ms, would eliminate always being matched with foreigners, which as an American playing on the AMERICAN servers, is rather annoying. Also, GIVE US DEATHMATCH ALREADY! And a map editor so we can create things such as tower defenses. I was personally involved in creating the GOLEMS (original) SC Custom map as well as ZTD on Wc3. I would love to develop a TD game using the HON engine and units.
    There is a map editor and a tower defense map has been made (element TD). But custom maps are not officially supported for playing online (which would be awesome if they were).

  10. #10
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    Awesome initative [S2]Buro this is the kind of stuff HoN really has been needing!

  11. #11
    A small yet helpful addition to the game :

    Right clicking on a player's name (inside or outside a game) and having the option to WHISPER, instead of writing /w iAmSyther blablabla.

    P.S i know there is /r to reply to whisper, but sometimes there is more than 1 person whispering.
    ::: MONTAGES ::: Top 10 HoN Plays :::
    Submit Replays to see yourself in my Montages and Top 10 plays

  12. #12
    I would rethink the ranking system (mmr, psr) and add more valuable Statistics that really shows what type of player we are or what could we improve etc. The mmr ranking is good but it has some issues like the "legendary" 1500 wall. People tend to say that the win percentage is a good way to see if you are good or not, I do believe it's not because when you are " stuck " in a bracket it is because you have 50% 50%.

    So in one phrase, rethink ranking and stats.

  13. #13
    Prioritize queving with more people. Example- if there is a group of 5 people waiting in the que best match would be another group of 5 waiting on the other side. If there is no such group enable it to connect to a group of 4+1 people. Same with other combinations ending with 2+2+1 combination. In order to balance it lower the mmr 5 players gain when playing with 4+1, 3+2 and 2+2+1. (5v5=+5.0 mmr, 5v4+1=+2.5mmr, 5v3+2=1.25mmr, 5v2+2+1=0.75 mmr)

    Result- same balance, lower waiting qoeves

  14. #14
    If you want to improve the game i suggest you make a specific Bloodlust for every hero and furthermore make the cool voice say the names of Bramble Prisoner945 and the newer heroes to newerth because it's actually weird it's like saying something broke at some point and that's what resulted :|... also there is another issue i have experienced in the game at some point a player from the opposing team got D/C'd and while reconnecting he D/C'd again and his icon was not showing he is not in the game but just that he is still connecting idk why happened once or twice. Also remake some speeches which heroes have the same just the voice differs.. that's really boring to hear and at some point kinda awkward.

  15. #15
    I made a suggestion on the hon subreddit about leavers. It's by no means perfect and can be adjusted but I think it's a system to consider when talking about leavers

    "I was thinking of a system similar to what CS:GO uses in their competitive matchmaking system where the more you leave the longer you have to wait to queue back up.I was thinking of having the system reset every month(obviously can change), and the numbers being something like no penalty, 30 minutes, 3 hours, 1 day, 1 week, and the rest of the month.
    Obviously you could come up with different times/cycles of reset but honestly anything better than the system now would make me feel like something is being done."

    Full thread here
    http://www.reddit.com/r/HeroesofNewe...a_for_leavers/
    If you had it like me and I was in your shoes I'd probably hate on me too.

  16. #16
    More Buro heroes of course

  17. #17
    Kick some avatar designers and hire one or two custom map designers.

    Community is manpower. Our custom map community is growing every day. We release a new map or a new bugfix on a map at least twice a day. 2 months ago it has been possible to play on custom maps online, and we already have more than 6 different game modes (OMG mode, WTF mode, 5v5 same_hero on specific maps, arena, warzone / annexion, cooperative survival) and more than 15 maps ! You need manpower, we are already here.

    We love mapping as you love improving HoN as the players love playing HoN !

  18. #18
    WELL IMO Bring back the kick button... We are getting trolls and no way to kick them. People are pushing the game to waste people's time more than ever, and no way to actually get them out of our games. prob the same amount of votes needed to remake at first. Also if two people join unconnected into the game those two get leaver% and the game gets remade automatically, or something like that.

  19. #19
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    First of all the changes Buro mentioned are a great additions, specially a league system or focusing on hardcore players for a change.

    Other things that i believe would improve HoN are as follows :
    1. Improved stats page - implement achievements

    If from now on you concentrate more on hardcore players then give us a more in-depth stats system. Longest win/loss streak or longest streak without dying, stuff like this. I can't remember the name right now but there was once a HoN tournament :

    You needed to play 20 games and based on these games you received points that would put you in a certain gold/silver/bronze league. After the leagues were set 10 more games were available for play, you had to be loged in their website and use something resembling a MM system where you were paired up with 9 players from your league. Based on the results of these last 10 games if you were in top 3 you got some prizes. I think S2 supported that website. What I liked the most about his tournament is that it had an achievement system implemented something like steam has. There were over 60 achievements to be earned and some were unlocked after got others. Examples: kill 50 neutrals in one game; Play 3 consecutive games without dieing more than 5 times; Score 5 humiliations in 10 games etc. Those were really cool.

    2. Make the hon account level count for something other than a measly 60 silver at lvl 45.

    Maybe implement the account level in the matchmaking algorithm or put some prize steps when lvling like at lvl 10 you get the back to school bundle and at bigger levels like at lvl 50 could give you the option to unlock a ultimate avatar. Getting to lvl 50 takes a LOT of time so it would set a goal for the player and reduce smurfing.

    3. Improve your marketing and giving information to the public

    Implement another volunteer position who takes charge of all the related HoN info like updating the HoN wiki, more detailed hero spotlights, improved S2Hon youtube channel. Why not make something to rival with dota cinema. Right now all projects made by the community are abandoned because they don't get anything back. Make them a part of HoN and maybe reward them through a system like all the other volunteer positions and we will have a great HoN Library with a lot more top 10, best icons, spotlights that last more than 2 min etc.

    4. Make some introductions between the volunteers and the community

    Streamed volunteer tourneys like the one our one and only SGM Showtime put together a while back so the community gets to know the people behind these volunteer positions. A lot of people right now have no idea what a moderator or a gm really does and what are their limitations.
    Last edited by Locke16k; 04-11-2013 at 07:20 AM.

    Game Masters are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.


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  20. #20
    Do something with the PUBTRAIN!!!

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