Thread: Hero Tier List - Hon Tour Diamond Cycle 7

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  1. #1

    Hero Tier List - Hon Tour Diamond Cycle 7

    Note: If you want to sort columns you need to go view>list, then click the clickable number at the top, press again if you want it going the other way (cheers Green).

    G'day, this is a Hero Tier list of the diamond division cycle 7. All of the data has been collected manually and from official diamond HoN tour games. The data can be seen here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...rWkE1U3c#gid=0 . There is also data available down the bottom for cycle 5 and 6.

    Just remember that the win-loss ratio DOES NOT represent balance. Heroes would need at least 50 games played to get a semi accurate results (100+ would be best) but there are also factors like strategic pairing (e.g. Demented Shaman is often seen with either Balphagore or Zephyr), random variance (might lose a lot one week and win a lot the next), ignorance to the hero (not picking the heroes counters) and top teams specializing with certain heroes (e.g. Swindlemelonzz going beast mode on deadwood). The following tier list was created mostly from appearance and in-game appearance, win % is NOT a factor in the tier positioning due to the reasons stated above.

    Just remember this tier list I have created is my own analysis / interpretation of the data, if you disagree with any of it discuss your points in a logical and reasonable manner. Keep all criticism reasonable and constructive so I can make improvements. 56/110 heroes were picked once or more!

    The following symbols will be used on the right of the hero portrait to show wether they have gone up or down from the previous tier list, + will indicate going up a tier, - will indicate going down a tier. Multiple symbols means multiple tier gains.

    GOD


    God Tier (Often Blind Banned or First Picked)
    Rally+

    Legendary Tier (often banned or picked)

    -

    Reliable Tier (picked fairly often, will also occasionally be worthy of a ban)
    - - -- -

    Average Tier (Often last picked or popular to a specific player [e.g. kookiez monkey king], rarely banned)

    - +++++

    Borderline Tier (due to popular request, these heroes were only picked up once or twice, or banned)

    - - - + + + + + + + + + ++Riftwalker+

    Garbage Tier (not seen at all)

    - - - - - - -- --

    Random Stats
    56/110 heroes were picked once or more
    31 wins for legion, 32 for hellbourne.
    Keeper v Tempest, went 5 - 3 in favour of keeper. (I am thinking about also recording Ophelia v Parasite next week)

    I hope to do this for the rest of the season, I cannot make any promises due to work / university but I will try my best too.

    A few notes -
    No remade games were counted in the hero stats, however the Legion/Hellbourne win was counted.
    Some heroes appear in over 100% of games due to both teams occasionally blind banning them.
    Some teams mutual ban Jera against each other (coL v TteS)

  2. #2
    I think Bubbles and Pharao deserves bigger icons, so long that they have been there...

  3. #3
    I would say glacius is pretty god tier
    Looking to perfect your game play? http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...6#post15593696
    Long Live MsPudding!

  4. #4
    Moon Queen 85% win ratio!


  5. #5
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    Nice,have been waiting a lot for this even though there aren't major changes.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Haku`s_Love View Post
    I would say glacius is pretty god tier
    stats don't lie

    @Cltemnestra, yeah already keen to see cycle 8. I reckon Artillery and Soulreaper will go up a bit and if any hero will replace Wildsoul I reckon it would be Rally.

  7. #7
    Moraxus should be a tier higher imo

  8. #8
    Buff silho

  9. #9
    56/110 heroes picked. What a joke.

  10. #10
    stats don't lie
    That's a statement to make with caution, to be honest.

    Stats are numbers, and numbers can tell pretty different stories following the interpretation.
    To the exact point, the data sheet doesn't lie, as long as it's 100% accurate, which is hard to verify (since the double blind ban make some % go over 100). But since there is no reason for you not to make it seriously, we can assume it's accurate. There might be an occasional mistake, but nothing that would compromise the thing as a whole.

    However, the way you chose to separate the tiers (and the way every tier list is done, thus) is an interpretation and doesn't tell any truth. It gives a point of view, an insight. You can back it up with arguments and it seems to make sense. But still, to an extent, the Tier List, though it reflects numbers, interpretates number. Simple example is: that Tier List doesn't take the win% into account, or to a minimal degree - since you placed as "God tier" a hero with 42% win ratio.


    Well, tl;dr: no tier list will tell a "truth", but a backed-up tier list, based on numbers, is quite reliable and insightful.



    On another point, back in February 2012, 88 competitive games were played and recorded ; in March 2012, 144 games. At the time, everyone was complaining about the scene "dying".

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Danelaan View Post
    That's a statement to make with caution, to be honest.

    Stats are numbers, and numbers can tell pretty different stories following the interpretation.
    To the exact point, the data sheet doesn't lie, as long as it's 100% accurate, which is hard to verify (since the double blind ban make some % go over 100). But since there is no reason for you not to make it seriously, we can assume it's accurate. There might be an occasional mistake, but nothing that would compromise the thing as a whole.

    However, the way you chose to separate the tiers (and the way every tier list is done, thus) is an interpretation and doesn't tell any truth. It gives a point of view, an insight. You can back it up with arguments and it seems to make sense. But still, to an extent, the Tier List, though it reflects numbers, interpretates number. Simple example is: that Tier List doesn't take the win% into account, or to a minimal degree - since you placed as "God tier" a hero with 42% win ratio.


    Well, tl;dr: no tier list will tell a "truth", but a backed-up tier list, based on numbers, is quite reliable and insightful.



    On another point, back in February 2012, 88 competitive games were played and recorded ; in March 2012, 144 games. At the time, everyone was complaining about the scene "dying".
    haha okay, you got me there. What you are saying is completely true, especially with such a small data range, at the end of the season I will join all the lists together which should give a higher accuracy. 'stats don't lie' was me snapping back to all the people saying a hero should be higher, but not giving any explanation with the data given as to why. This tier list is my interpretation of a heroes data in a cycle, not my interpretation of a heroes worth overall.

    The data recorded should be 99.9% accurate, I am sure I have made some mistakes, specifically on the bans. But I have tried to minimize them.

    Edit: Is your last point about only 63 games being played? Because you have 2 remember there is 2 cycles per month + other tournaments such as SBHL and GSL. So probably around 160 - 200 games played. (not sure if you were talking about this though)
    Last edited by Gypsie; 03-13-2013 at 08:44 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Haku`s_Love View Post
    I would say glacius is pretty god tier
    no one cares what you think..

    this is all about the stats! and on that note GJ OP!

  13. #13
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    Adding on to the point of "false" stats and so on:

    You can't simply draw easy deductions out of stats such as win percentage, because even with completely disregarding the small sample number, they are inherently skewed. This is due to the human factor, the play and counter-play of drafting and many other factors as well.

    I'll provide an example just to illustrate my point, but I'm sure you could come up with several similar.

    Wildsoul is rarely picked up, but when he is, he evidently loses more than he wins. Does this has anything to do with Wildsoul's true power level, or is it a result of something else? I could easily argue that whenever Wildsoul is left unbanned, it is for a reason. When teams do this, they come in with a plan in mind, "bait" the Wildsoul pick so to speak. It's not impossible to assume that they have a strategy in mind that will exploit the (few) weaknesses of Wildsoul, and as a result they would actually benefit from their opponents picking it.

    It's strategy. Drafting, counter-drafting, mind-games, team compositions and baiting picks all have a huge impact on the statistics of the heroes, and this is something you cannot analyze properly in a vacuum such as the one you provide with this spreadsheet. You need context and insight for that.

    Nevertheless, I still love this initiative since it provides an additional avenue to analyze the very complex interaction between heroes and items that we commonly refer to as balance.

    Keep up the good work!

    /Balance Moderator
    "What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.

  14. #14
    Thanks for the reply Ekamo Many of those are also intangible making a 100% accurate tier list based on pure stats impossible.

    @carben, Cheers mate

  15. #15
    I was looking for the game where Berzerker was used after Breaky mentioned it. Does anyone know which one it is?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanarai View Post
    I was looking for the game where Berzerker was used after Breaky mentioned it. Does anyone know which one it is?
    game3 col lions

  17. #17
    56/110 heroes picked. What a joke.
    8 of those heroes in garbage tier have been picked last cycle though.
    blahblahblahblahblahblahhalb

  18. #18
    Personally I think Sil and Moa could be a tier higher, but that's only my opinion though >_>.
    Anyway pretty awesome list ya got there.
    3D portfolio & HONiversay runner up winner video -> here
    Item suggestion Need critism -> here

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Uroefl View Post
    Personally I think Sil and Moa could be a tier higher, but that's only my opinion though >_>.
    Anyway pretty awesome list ya got there.
    Yeah they were both on the border.

    There seems to be way more god tier (90%+ appearance) heroes this list compared to previous ones.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike` View Post
    game3 col lions
    He was used before in a game Beef casted if I recall correctly, and he went almost immortal with 700 gpm. I think it was last hontour's loser bracket game.
    Last edited by DerRape; 03-16-2013 at 12:33 AM.

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