Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread. Thread: Alt avatar laziness

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Master_One View Post
    To be frank, i did not take my time to completely read your thread, but i got the sense of it.

    However i still don't agree. If you can change a hero, you can change the skills aswell. If a player can't recognize changed skills of an alt avatar, changes are that they did not even recognize the hero because of the alt. And if they have a hard time with that, as a wise man already said:
    go play my little pony adventure quest!

    There are already several examples the looks of skills were totally changed with the alt avatar, aswell.

    I am soooo sorry if it is confusing to some people, if torturer's chains will are changed to ice spikes and/or volcanic erruptions.


    You argue as much as you want, but one year ago people claimed, that emperor pharaoh's soul rocket can't be changed, because people would not recognize it and it would be to confusing, while therefor S2 would ofc never change it.

    However here we are now, they changed the rocket, which i highly applaud them for, even though it took a year. And i can tell you, when i play pharaoh, people don't come at me in these games "What is that flying dragon's head, what does it do, i am so confused".

    Yeah....
    Exactly this!

    Look at cupid succy, he ult animation is changed, but still recongisable as a succ ulti, how hard would it be to that for other skins.
    On a different but not unrelated not, what about the sounds? they are still the same.


  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenOak View Post
    Myself supporting s2 with majority of the things they release I do like to support them but using gold, but lately it's like ehh why bother.

    If you pay money because you enjoy supporting S2, that's independent of Avatar quality. If the Avatar quality is not worth the money, then you are not basing your monetary purchases on your support of S2.

    There's nothing wrong with not buying an Avatar because you don't consider it worth it, but the fact remains that the Avatars do not necessarily cost $10.

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  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #23
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    When creating an avatar in the game, we carefully consider what impact hero effects changes have on game play. We always strive to avoid creating alt avatars that give in-game advantages by confusing players. Torturer's avatars all use chains as an integral part of their ability effects, so those effects need to remain consistent in designing each avatar for that hero. We can recall when Dominatrix came out, there was a cry for her attack to be changed to a whip for the exact same reason.

    That being said, after looking at the feedback and discussing it internally, we believe that by adding fire and ice effects to normal attack projectiles and the chains in chain reaction we can still avoid any undesirable effects to game play. Look forward to those changes in next week's patch.

    There is a fine line between maintaining consistency and balance in each alt avatar while also making each character distinct. It is our fervent desire to make each avatar as exciting as possible and we strive to create the best game play experience for both you and your opponents when you choose these cosmetics.

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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenOak View Post
    Yes and no, it fits with the lore.
    It has Ellonia and Magmus involved, hence the fire and ice so it does fit tort.

    Not denying it would work better on Gemini, but it does work with the new lore added.

    Lately everything has been changed for the evolution of HoN, with s2 not really caring for it's fan base it has now. The preparations that s2 is making for these expected new players is baffling, people asked to have the in game hero icons changed back or even an option to have them, we were declined. 3.0 was surrounded with the idea of new players.

    I think they are forgetting they already have a fanbase and that they aren't listening to us as we talk, they are more interested in the "dream" they currently have.

    I think S2 rather focus on new players pleasure and an easier way to learn the game despite the HUGE learning curve that HoN consist of. Saying that they don't listen to the older players is just plain wrong. Right now I can see in this patch and forum a post about how Casual stats got reinstated to the game. This was NOT the new players wish. On that I'm 99% sure. That was the older players that whined about the stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Master_One View Post
    To be frank, i did not take my time to completely read your thread, but i got the sense of it.

    However i still don't agree. If you can change a hero, you can change the skills aswell. If a player can't recognize changed skills of an alt avatar, changes are that they did not even recognize the hero because of the alt. And if they have a hard time with that, as a wise man already said:
    go play my little pony adventure quest!

    There are already several examples the looks of skills were totally changed with the alt avatar, aswell.

    I am soooo sorry if it is confusing to some people, if torturer's chains will are changed to ice spikes and/or volcanic erruptions.


    You argue as much as you want, but one year ago people claimed, that emperor pharaoh's soul rocket can't be changed, because people would not recognize it and it would be to confusing, while therefor S2 would ofc never change it.

    However here we are now, they changed the rocket, which i highly applaud them for, even though it took a year. And i can tell you, when i play pharaoh, people don't come at me in these games "What is that flying dragon's head, what does it do, i am so confused".

    Yeah....
    To be precisely honest I've never seen any debate about his Tormented Soul debate 1 year ago. At the same time I don't see that of a big difference on the two Souls. It's not like they have changed it form the greenish color to red or something. That would create confusion and that's what you are asking for in the Torturer change. I agree that they could have made the chains red or a bit fiery but it's important they stay as chains. If they would change his stun into a volcanic eruption people could confuse it with Pyro. So that just isn't possible out of the confusion able to be created.
    If you had to room with another gamer, who would it be and why?
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  5. #25
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    LoreMeister wins the thread.

    @Encaitor: it was something Master_One asked for, and this year the change was made. Hence why he is aware of it

    Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.

    Please use the report post function to have me review a post that you believe is breaking the Forum Rules.
    Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by LoreMeister View Post
    When creating an avatar in the game, we carefully consider what impact hero effects changes have on game play. We always strive to avoid creating alt avatars that give in-game advantages by confusing players. Torturer's avatars all use chains as an integral part of their ability effects, so those effects need to remain consistent in designing each avatar for that hero. We can recall when Dominatrix came out, there was a cry for her attack to be changed to a whip for the exact same reason.

    That being said, after looking at the feedback and discussing it internally, we believe that by adding fire and ice effects to normal attack projectiles and the chains in chain reaction we can still avoid any undesirable effects to game play. Look forward to those changes in next week's patch.

    There is a fine line between maintaining consistency and balance in each alt avatar while also making each character distinct. It is our fervent desire to make each avatar as exciting as possible and we strive to create the best game play experience for both you and your opponents when you choose these cosmetics.
    This is the reason why I love LoreMeister and he is one of my favorite S2 staff!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorb View Post
    LoreMeister wins the thread.

    @Encaitor: it was something Master_One asked for, and this year the change was made. Hence why he is aware of it
    Al right! Had no idea about that. GJ Master_One getting that change into the game
    If you had to room with another gamer, who would it be and why?
    Insania; I like to keep my enemies close (I suspect he’s a terrorist).

    -NoobG

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by LoreMeister View Post
    When creating an avatar in the game, we carefully consider what impact hero effects changes have on game play. We always strive to avoid creating alt avatars that give in-game advantages by confusing players. Torturer's avatars all use chains as an integral part of their ability effects, so those effects need to remain consistent in designing each avatar for that hero. We can recall when Dominatrix came out, there was a cry for her attack to be changed to a whip for the exact same reason.

    That being said, after looking at the feedback and discussing it internally, we believe that by adding fire and ice effects to normal attack projectiles and the chains in chain reaction we can still avoid any undesirable effects to game play. Look forward to those changes in next week's patch.

    There is a fine line between maintaining consistency and balance in each alt avatar while also making each character distinct. It is our fervent desire to make each avatar as exciting as possible and we strive to create the best game play experience for both you and your opponents when you choose these cosmetics.

    thanks you
    Last edited by dINGO``; 02-15-2013 at 01:51 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorb View Post
    LoreMeister wins the thread.

    @Encaitor: it was something Master_One asked for, and this year the change was made. Hence why he is aware of it
    And as you are aware, i was by far not the only one asking for it.


    @Loremeister:

    I am glad that you consider adding some effects with the alt. Also i have noticed that you seem to post more regularly on the forums, which is great. I hope this trend continues on.
    Last edited by Master_One; 02-15-2013 at 01:41 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Encaitor View Post
    How hard is it to understand that they don't want/can't/shouldn't change the fundamentals of a hero in a avatar. Torturers whole concept is based on chains. It would confuse everybody if suddenly he threw fireballs or snowballs (Pyro/Ellonia). That's the main reason Dark Jeraziahs effects never got changed afaik. The competitive players complained about it. It's already hard for new players to realize what hero is what when 100 and over 250 skins exist... Let's keep the fundamentals please
    Groundhog Tremble says hi???

    They broke their own rule bigtime with that one.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encaitor View Post
    I think S2 rather focus on new players pleasure and an easier way to learn the game despite the HUGE learning curve that HoN consist of. Saying that they don't listen to the older players is just plain wrong. Right now I can see in this patch and forum a post about how Casual stats got reinstated to the game. This was NOT the new players wish. On that I'm 99% sure. That was the older players that whined about the stats.

    To be precisely honest I've never seen any debate about his Tormented Soul debate 1 year ago. At the same time I don't see that of a big difference on the two Souls. It's not like they have changed it form the greenish color to red or something. That would create confusion and that's what you are asking for in the Torturer change. I agree that they could have made the chains red or a bit fiery but it's important they stay as chains. If they would change his stun into a volcanic eruption people could confuse it with Pyro. So that just isn't possible out of the confusion able to be created.
    Noone complained about Scorcher (Pyros alt) has blue fire for his attacks. Stop talking bullshit about not changing somethings because there are plenty color alterations and abilities that does not look like the original and it's fine.
    Say, I seem to have lost my brain, you don't seem to be using yours... can I have it?

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LoreMeister View Post
    That being said, after looking at the feedback and discussing it internally, we believe that by adding fire and ice effects to normal attack projectiles and the chains in chain reaction we can still avoid any undesirable effects to game play. Look forward to those changes in next week's patch.
    Looking forward for those changes. I've been very disappointed upon sight of Aizen's video that shows the avatar itself.


  12. #32
    I;m going to copy paste my closed thread first post

    What is the thought behind creating alts like Celcius Tort S2?

    first of all, this is not a suggestion (before mods close it).

    I just want to know what designers are thinking when they expect people to buy their alts.

    Since S2 is all about listening to the community since.....maybe 6-8 months ago? This should be highlighted.
    Just look at the comments of Celcius: http://youtu.be/xfzWum0djGk

    Everyone thinks it doesn't make any sense, he's still throwing chains, there are no new effects except for the physical damage skill (apparently it is possible to add color to that skill but not to others? wtf?)
    But why is his attack animation the same? Why not switch it to red and blue? You've done it with the phys skill, why not simple add it to the attack animation?
    Why not give some more color to his ult? He's all about temperature and it's all the same, no fire in his ult, no ice in his ult, stun looks the same.

    It's disappointing really.
    I'm not bashing this alt, I just think it's weird small things like that aren't changed, as if the designers can't be bothered with it.
    This goes for ALL alts that have this. Just changing the color of the attack animations is enough if the alt itself compensates.

    I'm a collector of alts, and this has been bothering me for quite some time now. I and many others that like to buy alts just want to see that little extra that makes that alt differentiate from other alts. The model and voice acting alone often isn't satisfying for me, especially if you charge the full price for it, I won't bother buying it, I'll just wait until it becomes dirt cheap.
    Is it because you're limited to a budget that you have to make cuts on what effects to add?

    Again this isn't a suggestion, I just want to hear the thought process behind it of making such decisions for ignoring changing the standard attack animations and not giving extra care to the skills AND still charge the full price for it, while other alts do get more care and are sold for the same price.
    (this isn't a price issue for me, but it's just weird so I had to point it out)

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoreMeister View Post
    When creating an avatar in the game, we carefully consider what impact hero effects changes have on game play. We always strive to avoid creating alt avatars that give in-game advantages by confusing players. Torturer's avatars all use chains as an integral part of their ability effects, so those effects need to remain consistent in designing each avatar for that hero. We can recall when Dominatrix came out, there was a cry for her attack to be changed to a whip for the exact same reason.

    That being said, after looking at the feedback and discussing it internally, we believe that by adding fire and ice effects to normal attack projectiles and the chains in chain reaction we can still avoid any undesirable effects to game play. Look forward to those changes in next week's patch.

    There is a fine line between maintaining consistency and balance in each alt avatar while also making each character distinct. It is our fervent desire to make each avatar as exciting as possible and we strive to create the best game play experience for both you and your opponents when you choose these cosmetics.
    Thank you! And can we have breasts on Den Mother's ultimate too? Please? Pretty please? A better voice acting would be very nice too, but I guess I'm starting to get too greedy here.
    Last edited by Eng1ne`; 02-15-2013 at 02:11 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by LoreMeister View Post
    When creating an avatar in the game, we carefully consider what impact hero effects changes have on game play. We always strive to avoid creating alt avatars that give in-game advantages by confusing players. Torturer's avatars all use chains as an integral part of their ability effects, so those effects need to remain consistent in designing each avatar for that hero. We can recall when Dominatrix came out, there was a cry for her attack to be changed to a whip for the exact same reason.

    That being said, after looking at the feedback and discussing it internally, we believe that by adding fire and ice effects to normal attack projectiles and the chains in chain reaction we can still avoid any undesirable effects to game play. Look forward to those changes in next week's patch.

    There is a fine line between maintaining consistency and balance in each alt avatar while also making each character distinct. It is our fervent desire to make each avatar as exciting as possible and we strive to create the best game play experience for both you and your opponents when you choose these cosmetics.
    That's nonsense, what about Midas throwing snowballs? People could think it's Frostwolf Skull attacks.
    So by adding an extra color to the attack gives an unfair advantage? It confuses new players?
    It doesn't add up to what you're saying.

    There are dozens of alts that DO have different attacks, that DO have different attack colors, you cannot simply say it's to prevent confusion or unfair advantage when other alts DO have those things.

    I think anyone that's intelligent enough to make an account to play HoN is intelligent enough to know what the attacks do if you only change the color a bit.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoreMeister View Post
    When creating an avatar in the game, we carefully consider what impact hero effects changes have on game play. We always strive to avoid creating alt avatars that give in-game advantages by confusing players. Torturer's avatars all use chains as an integral part of their ability effects, so those effects need to remain consistent in designing each avatar for that hero. We can recall when Dominatrix came out, there was a cry for her attack to be changed to a whip for the exact same reason.

    That being said, after looking at the feedback and discussing it internally, we believe that by adding fire and ice effects to normal attack projectiles and the chains in chain reaction we can still avoid any undesirable effects to game play. Look forward to those changes in next week's patch.

    There is a fine line between maintaining consistency and balance in each alt avatar while also making each character distinct. It is our fervent desire to make each avatar as exciting as possible and we strive to create the best game play experience for both you and your opponents when you choose these cosmetics.
    So how come you change so many other avatars and the look of their skills. Gladiator as a prime example.. every alt he has changes the look of his ult, trap and "X mark challenge skill thingy".
    You have slither whos wards all change the looks, adds of keeper/balphagore/fa/ and others having their own unique look.
    And last Spellslinger Flint Beastwood, you made a mage with flamethrowing auto attacks and a fireballish ult.

    Wouldn't you consider those to be very much the same kind of alterisation to skills wich you say can't be done for this specific torturer alt?.
    I just don't see why making the chains into ice spikes for impaling and sort of reddish lashes for chains that drag you towards them. The ulti doesn't need to be changed that much though unless you go into a slight coloring change for the pulsing aura.
    Say, I seem to have lost my brain, you don't seem to be using yours... can I have it?

  16. #36
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    Alumando, you should've perhaps read LoreMeister's post before posting

    Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.

    Please use the report post function to have me review a post that you believe is breaking the Forum Rules.
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorb View Post
    Alumando, you should've perhaps read LoreMeister's post before posting
    I even quoted it

  18. #38
    I think what loremeister is trying to say is that it should fit with the original theme.
    In this case, if they change it to ice/fire based (with no chains) it will ofcourse be harder to distinguish in the heat of the battle.
    Midas snowball, hero minions, slither wards, gladiator skills etc do follow their "original concept" as it were and are not hard to distinguish. However if you change tort's skills to just ice/fire, it can easily be confused with for eg, ellonia's or pyro's skills.

    Adding some fire and ice effects to the chains is probably the best idea like loremeister said. Now time will tell how good/bad that becomes.
    Last edited by Aghny; 02-15-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  19. #39
    I feel that the whole Celsius concept would have fared much better on a few other heroes.

    The entire idea was doomed from the start, because in order to "not confuse players", the chain theme needs to be somewhat intact.

    It would be humongously confusing if the stun was similar to pyro's stun or if the impalement resembled pharoah hellfire or Glacius ultimate.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Skinsword View Post
    I feel that the whole Celsius concept would have fared much better on a few other heroes.

    The entire idea was doomed from the start, because in order to "not confuse players", the chain theme needs to be somewhat intact.

    It would be humongously confusing if the stun was similar to pyro's stun or if the impalement resembled pharoah hellfire or Glacius ultimate.
    No, all they had to do was add a blue and red glow while keeping the chains intact.
    Not that hard.

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