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  1. #1
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    Chronos

    Last update - 05/2011 -
    Search for "BlueAura's Premium Chronos Guide" in game and vote up for all my hard work =)!
    http://www.heroesofnewerth.com/heroe...w.php?gid=3495




    A guide to:

    - The master over time itself.

    The greatest inventors of the Human Legion dreamed of making an army of machine warriors to spare humans the bloody cost of war.
    Only one was ever created, for no one could ever find a way to quicken him.
    When the Hellbourne fed a stolen soul into its mechanical shell, they brought the Chronos to life and gained the benefit of this artificial monster's mastery over time itself.



    CONTENTS:


    1. The Intro
    2. Chronos information (Stats/Abilities)
      • Chronos' Stats
      • Chronos' Abilities
        1. Timeleap
        2. Rewind
        3. Curse of Ages
        4. Chronofield
    3. Skills and Stat placement
    4. Item Build
      1. Starting Items
      2. Core Items
      3. Luxury
      4. Item Order
      5. Items to Avoid
    5. Your Role
    6. Other Heroes and Chronos
      1. Chronos Babysitters
      2. Nasty Lane Opponents
      3. Direct Chronos Counters
      4. Chronofield Combos
    7. Laning
    8. Farming
    9. How to Timeleap and Chronofield
    10. Chronos Changelog
    11. Replays
    12. To Do List
    13. Guide Changelog
    14. To Do List
    1) The Intro

    This guide is aimed at helping players at any level improve their game with Chronos.

    Before we get started it is important that you know and fully understand that Chronos is a
    Hard Carry hero and is totally item dependent - meaning that you must have extremely good farming and last hitting skills to do well with him outside of easy-mode.

    Is Chronos the hero for you?

    Can you last hit well?
    Can you avoid your enemies whilst keeping a steady income?
    Do you generally win your lane?
    Can you time your entry into a battle well so you can maximize your damage?
    Can you pull a solid 300g / per minute in Non Casual Mode?
    Do you realize Chronos is not a tank?
    Do you realize Chronos is a mid to late game hero?


    If you answered yes to all of the questions, then Chronos will be a solid choice for you.


    2) Chronos information (Stats/Abilities)




    3) Skills and Stat Placement





    4) Item build


    - First I'd like to recommend you to try and always carry a homecoming stone. It's useful for many obvious reasons such as defending a tower or transport back home but a well placed jump and Teleport should get you out of harm.

    The Item build for Chronos is extremely debatable currently, so I've created a chart of the common items picked up with all of the pro's and cons for you to consider.
    Below the chart you will find my favourite item build and in my oppinion the most cost effective way to play Chronos.



    Core Items



    Luxuries



    Item Build Order


    As the metagame has drastically changed from "Kills heroes around your farm" to "Farm around killing heroes" and is no longer a carry race. This means for Chronos to be a worth while pick in the current game he needs early game presence.

    This involves a change in items and strategy.

    EP - There is no debate.
    EP is now 100% a core pickup for every game.

    My reasons:
    Like I said, Chronos needs early game presence for his team to be successful. This means looking at cheap items that have multiple uses.

    * EP Gives you the life steal you need to jungle that will reduce trips back to the well (losing gold each time) and allows you access to farming the ancients relatively early. And it is vital for a Ninja on Kongor if an early Savage Mace is picked up.
    * EP at level 6 allows you to be a strong threat to many heroes if you can catch them offgaurd in a 1v1 situation.
    * EP will be extremely useful for almost the entire game with its 100+ Attack Speed and 20% Movement Speed allowing you to do your job - kill in your Chronofield changing the fight to 4v5.
    * With the buff to EP a while back decreasing the damage from 30% to 20% I think it becomes an easy choice when one is confident with placing a Chronofield.


    Why not Alchemist bones?!?!

    Farming:
    If you take Alchemist bones, you will have no life steal unless a whispering helm is picked up, which I am against on Chronos. This means you will be making trips back to the well pretty often (losing a lot of gpm in the process). You will lose early access to the ancients and you will lose lane presence. Honestly I think the two would balance out in most games for GPM.

    PVP:
    30+ Attack Speed on Alchemist Bones vs 100+ Attack Speed and 20% Movement Speed. Easy choice, 3x More attack speed, Movement speed to chase and makes you a lot more deadly in your Chronofield.


    What about Runed Axe?

    As I said earlier, getting early game presence is vital, so a rush for a 20 minute Runed Axe is no longer a help to the team, it is a hinderence and not to do it UNLESS you are in a trilane and you a specifically running that as your strat.

    Whats with the symbol or rage at the bottem?

    I think out of all the games I've played, I have only reached this twice. It is there to replace Elder Parasite and should mean you can take down any opposing carry, (Along with the rest of their team )
    Last edited by Blue_Aura; 05-26-2011 at 02:24 AM.
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



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    5) Your Role

    Chronos is a "Hard Carry" meaning his primary role is to carry through the game and come out towards the end extremely powerful.


    Farm:

    Unlike the old days where it was your job to maximise your farm and manage killing heroes around this, now you have to farm around killing heroes. Todays metagame requires you to be ready for team fights as soon as you can manage. So this means you need a powerful lane so you are ready to join in as soon as possible.

    Stay Alive:

    Whilst dead you are wasting precious farming time (a possible $200 per 30 seconds dead from a creep wave or neutral camps), you will lose gold on death and you will be wasting time (and a possible $135 on a homecoming stone) to get back to your farm. So your looking at least $300 gold per death.

    Don't think "Because I've just bought items I can rambo" that's not how it works. Don't risk dieing, its better to retreat then to chance the kill.


    Team Fights:

    In a team fight your Chronofield placement is crucial. Make sure you disable as many opposing heroes as possible, or disable the opposing teams threats.

    Inside this bubble you job is to get at least 1 kill changing the fight to a 4v5. Make sure you take out their teams biggest threats, whether this be stunners or a carry.

    See Chronofield Combos on which heroes to make sure you disable.


    Solo Fights:

    If you see a stray hero that you can kill... Do it!

    However before you jump in make sure
    a) You know you can kill him,
    b) Check your minimap to see if your being baited,
    c) That if you need to use your Chronofield that your not going to need it again before your cooldown is over. (Early game you will most likely have to use it)



    6) Other Heroes and Chronos - All suggestions welcome.


    Chronos Babysitters

    These are the heroes I would recommend you partener with Chronos in order of best to last.

    Vodoo Jester - An under-ratted babysitter. Jester and Chronos actually combo quite well, especially at level 6, its a guaranteed kill with an ulti combo.
    Demented Shaman - Excellent Harasser, and will be able to keep you alive with heals. Also may be able to get you an early kill.
    Plague Rider - Another great harasser and offers you great control of your lane. The only downside to plague is he comes with no heals however he is a great option.
    Witch Slayer - His two disables should be able to stop almost any attempted gank on you, his manadrain will keep the opponents low making your time a lot easier.
    Nymphora - Will be able to steadily top you back up and give you return you with mana for leap if you have someone draining it in your lane.


    Nasty Lane Opponents

    These heroes will strongly affect your early game, whether it is from stopping your last hits or killing you. Don't forget you have the option of moving lanes if your farm is miserable.

    Plague Rider - An excellent harasser with infinite mana to nuke you with. Because plague deny the creeps he not only reduces your possible gold and experience but pulls the lane toward their tower making ganks on you much easier. This would be the worst hero against you in lane.
    Pollywog Priest - Pollys constant nuking and sheep/hold combined with another hero can be quite good at suppressing your farm.
    Witch Slayer- with his stun, his sheep and his mana-drain to remove your jump witchslayer is a pain.
    Nymphora - Will allow any ally to keep harassing you without a problem.
    Puppet Master - An amazing harasser and last hitter. This guy will really make you struggle in a lane without constant heals.
    Aramadon – When Armadon is put in a lane with a solid partner he can force you away from a lot of farm. It is crucial you pick up a manabattery if you are against him.
    Legionnaire - If he is pulling creeps out of the lane before they reach the tower you will be powerless to stop him. Call your teammates in for a gank and it should be fine. You will only ever see this in lowbie games, however still is very effective if you do not get assistance from allies.
    ?? Double Stun/Nuke lanes - Can be a pain to deal with a sudden burst from two heroes, you just need to watch where you stand and play extremely defensive. If they suddenly turn aggressive check to see if middle lane is missing, else your dead.




    Direct Chronos Counters.

    Plague Rider - His armor buff will reduce Chronos' damage by a huge amount and his ultimate can tear you and your team apart if your not careful with Chronofield
    Succubus - A real pain for three reasons. 1) Smitten will nerf your damage by ALOT. 2) Mezmerize will remove you from a fight for a long time. 3) Succubus's hold can be a guaranteed death.
    Valkyrie - A pain for two reasons. 1) If her ultimate is used you to initate you can be targeted and removed from the fight. 2) If valk stands back she can get a clear arrow on you inside your bubble sometimes.
    Puppet Master - Annoying for two reasons. 1) Main reason being if he casts puppet show on you, you will tear apart an ally. 2) You cannot leap during his hold.
    :BarbedArmor: Barbed Armor - Fairly obvious, this hurts Chronos A LOT when you attack someone with it activated.
    Demented Shaman - A well used ultimate by dsham will make you hit like a fly. Just get dsham on your side instead !



    Chronofield Combos

    Magmus - Eruption: When blinked into the center of the Chronofield does insane damage.
    Plague Rider - Plague Carrier: When bouncing round inside the Chronofield can do insane damage.
    :fors: Forsaken Archer - Piercing Arrows: Holds the targets in place so the arrows can destroy whatever is inside.
    Defiler - Unholy Expansion: Can do some crazy single target damage to a person trapped inside.
    Behemoth - Shockwave: Allows a perfectly placed Shockwave, Fissure and Enrage stun combo right after the ultimate ends, increasing the stun duration.
    Glacius - Glacial Downpour: If a Glacius can sit on the side of your Chronofield it can do some insane damage.
    Zepher - Typhoon: Allows a perfectly placed Typhoon do add extra dps and slows the heroes the moment the Chronofield ends.
    Chipper - Sawblade Showdown: This combined with any kind of hold in place will cause devastating damage. A great combo!
    Tempest - Meteor: Placed inside the Chronofield does a lot of damage, and when the field ends, allows for a perfect ultimate placement.


    If any of these types of characters are on your team great! If not you MUST make sure they are dead or disabled because they can destroy you and possibly your team inside the bubble.


    7) Laning

    * Try and stay as close to the tower as possible. This usually involves manipulating the lane by pulling creeps or using plague riders ability to deny creeps. Doing this will discourage harassment a lot

    * Don't stand around closely behind the creeps to last hit, you want to play hit and run style. Run in, last hit, go back towards your tower. Timing this takes a lot of practise but it will drop a constant stream of attacks on you to one or two.

    * Defensive Wards and miss calls are dire! However do not rely on your team for this, glance at the minimap everytime your hero takes his swing for a last hit.

    [Image of Defensive wards goes here - Will get it soon]

    These two ward positions should keep you from any surprise gank. You should have site through from the middle lane right to the bottom to see any sneak attack from the forest.

    * Its not end of the world if you lose the tower, bottom for legion or top for Hellbourne are your least important towers. Any opponents pushing around that area will leave themselves open to a nice gank. It also allows you more creeping room. But avoid it if possible of course, making sure to call in assistance if needed.

    * Laning Bottom with Legion and Top with Hellbourne gives you easy neutral creep access. If there are 3 enemies in your lane, do the smart thing and stay right back and wait for assistance.

    * Don't forget the walkways in the trees beneath your tower (legion) and above your tower (hellbourne), These can be invaluable when your getting ganked.

    * Trilaneing can be extremely effective when used agaisnt an unsuspecting team. I would highly recommend not doing this with total randoms and to only do with this people you know who are experienced support players.
    Last edited by Blue_Aura; 11-13-2010 at 04:17 AM.

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    8) Farming

    This section will adress some stratergies and shortcuts when farming.

    - Runed Axe

    The best tool for farming on Chronos is Runed Axe, so rushing this item used to be extremely popular, however I advise agaisnt getting it unless:
    a) It is a stratergy your team is running (generally you would then be in a trilane)
    b) You are versing bads and have been handed a bunch of free gold in your lane from creeps and hero kills.
    c) You pick it up after your core by approximatly 25 minutes.

    Now if you do decide to pick up Runed Axe advise your babysitter about 5 minutes before you complete it to start stacking all the camps for you. Also advise your team to stack the ancients as they walk past them.
    This will give you a crazy boost to your GPM and generally wins games when effectively pulled off.


    - No Runed Axe

    I advise staying in a lane for as long as you can as early, the lane will offer more gpm and exp.

    When your core is finished, you will be able to work your way around the jungle quite fast and you will have no trouble with the ancients.


    - Rushing a Lane

    Rushing a lane involves auto attacking the creeps (obviously waiting for that last hit on them) and rushing the lane forward, then when the opposing team come to kill you, Timeleaping + homecoming stone away to either a new lane or to the jungle.
    Aside from farming stacked camps this is the best way to farm a solid gpm. (Note: This is much more effective with a Runed Axe however it is doable without). However it is dangerous and you have to be extremely careful.

    It is really dangerous when you head past the river so make sure you are constatly watching the minimap so you can time your escape perfectly. Also make sure you make the most out of your Elder Parasite when doing this.

    - Whats the time...?
    Pay attention to the ingame time when farming, always stack a camp if you are going to be there during the next minute, or if you will come back to it very soon.

    - You have an axe... USE IT!

    Whether this be for juking, farming or cutting down Keeper of the Forests eyes. It has the ability to cut trees for a reason!
    Every second you save whilst walking around the jungle will add to your gpm.


    You can find a few excellent guides on general jungling around the forums but these are a couple of examples of important trees to be cut down when farming.



    Ward spots - These are the places Chronos's support players sould be warding.
    These are the best 2 spots to know when enemy players will be entering your jungle.

    Legion Defensive Ward Spots


    Hellbourne Defensive Ward Spots


    Note that on the hellbourne side, enemy players can walk up the ramp on the right to enter your jungle. There will be vision of this until you lose your first middle lane tower.


    9) Timeleaping And Chronofielding

    Timeleaping

    One of my absolute favorite abilities in the game. Timeleap allows you to travel an enormous distance, over or onto obstacles, it has a 40% slow on landing and deals a nice 175 magic aoe damage when you land. What more could you ask for?!


    Below is a basic image for you so you can calculate how far your jumps will be. (Note the comparison to the neutral camp above).



    Below are two extremely useful examples of using Timeleap to get a terrain advantage whether that be in escaping or ganking.
    On the left we see Chronos on high-ground near the bottom rune. When getting chased leaping onto here will completely remove your enemies vision of you and they will be unable to attack or target you. (Unless they use aoe moves). A great spot to jump onto and portal from if needed. On the other hand this is a great ambush point as you can just walk down the cliff and start hacking away on the unsuspecting opponent saving your Timeleap for chasing or escaping.
    This is not the only useful high-ground spot so keep your eyes peeled.

    On the right we see Chronos in a low-ground spot. This is no where near as useful as high-ground as you lose vision of your enemies and they can still see you. But it can be extremely useful if you are begin attacked by a melee character. You can jump inside and they wont be able to touch you. Then your free to portal.


    There is no -unstuck like there is in Dota, instead you can freely walk down/up the cliff. Remember to hit (h) when you land so Chronos doesn't walk off!




    * When chasing or engaging make sure you leap slightly in-front of where the target would flee to, and animation cancel whilst blocking him, this can add 2 or more hits on the target.
    * Don't be afraid to use this to finish a hero or get a kill steal. You're the Carry.


    Chronofield
    Now your Chronofield's can literally 'make or break' a fight. Make sure you take your time to find the exact moment when placing your Chronofield. Becareful when timeleaping then Chronofielding into a group of enemies, because if their reaction time is fast enough, they can disable you before you use it.



    Below is, so to speak a "Perfect Chronofield" because both opponents are stuck inside the Chronofield with my ally outside.
    Because pestilence is right on the edge, Accursed can help kill Pestilence. The fight then turns to 2v1.Dropping Chronofield's become A LOT more difficult in a 5v5 environment and takes patience and timing. You will almost never get the entire team so make sure you get the important people.
    Spells cast from outside still work inside your Chronofield.






    11) Chronos Changelog

    HoN Version 1.0.9

    - Damage from Curse of Ages proc from 20/40/60/80 Magic to 15/30/45/60 Physical

    Version 0.3.0.2

    - Manacost on Time Leap increased to 135 from 120
    - Time Leap damage lowered by 25 at all levels
    - Curse of Ages now steals 1/1/2/3 agility per charge, decreased from 1/2/3/4
    - Curse of Ages now stuns the target after 5 attacks, increased from 4
    - Targets stunned by Curse of Ages will now properly play their attack animation when the stun wears off
    - Stun from Curse of Ages now scales as a .25,.5,.75,1 second stun from 1 second at all levels
    - Chronofield won't freeze invulnerable targets anymore (Such as Swiftblade ulting or Defiler's ult)
    - Chronofield now freezes everyone by default, with Staff of the Master lets allies move at -80% speed in the field

    Elder Parasite
    - Incoming damage multiplier reduced to 20%, from 30%

    Version 1.66
    - Time leap now also does 50,100,150,200 Magic damage on impact
    - Rewind reworked
    * When damaged, Chronos has a 10,15,20,25% chance to heal back the damage at a rate of up to 25% of his maximum health per second
    - Time Freeze renamed to Curse of Ages
    * Steals 1/2/3/4 Agility per hit, debuff lasts 10 seconds. Each debuff is individually timed
    * Four consecutive hits on the same target will lock that target in time (stun) for 1 second
    * While someone is stunned by Curse of Ages, Chronos can not build charges towards another stun or steal any agility
    * Does not stack with Brutalizer
    * No longer propagates to illusions
    - Chronosphere
    * Allies can now move and cast while inside, but everything they do is reduced by 90% speed (MS, AS, CS)
    * With Staff of the Master, the slow is reduced from 90% to 80%

    Version 0.1.50
    - Attack impact time set to 0.5 seconds (from 0.6)

    Version 0.1.47
    - Bash damage can proc while the stun is on cooldown

    Version 0.1.46
    - Time Freeze cooldown reduced to 1.5

    Version 0.1.42
    - Fixed Chronofield not stopping Invulnerable units or Towers
    - Chronofield is now boosted by Staff of the Master
    - Time Freeze will now go through Magic Immunity
    - Time Freeze now deals magic damage, not physical

    Version 0.1.34
    - Base strength increased from 17 to 23
    - Removed visual cool down from Rewind. The effects on rewind will not play if the source of the damage is a DOT

    12) Replays

    See Replay http://replays.heroesofnewerth.com/match_replay.php?mid=2144236
    By no means is this a great replay of mine, but it's the only one I've played of Chronos recently and someone asked me to upload it .
    In it I blue screen drop and get nailed pretty hard at the start, but in the end there is a Nice Annihilation showing the true power of Chronos

    Welcome anyone Else's replay's demonstrating my guide in AP, credit will be given =)

    13) To Do List
    * Add Colour and formatting

    14) Guide Changelog
    14/05/2011
    - Updated again after a long delay
    - Updated Item build by removing chalice as it is no longer OP.
    - Updated some images and comments

    26/04/10
    - Removed Sheildbreaker for Luxuries because of patch 3.4 change to attack modifiers.
    1/03/10
    - Fixed a lot around the guide, such as rewording and elaborating on item explanations and general formatting.
    - Modified the general look for the guide, still will be trying to clean it up further.
    - Added Chronofield Combos

    31/03/10
    - Guide made premium

    28/03/10
    - Updated the guide for 0.3.0.2
    - Cleaned up the abilities by sticking them in a table.

    25/03/10
    - Another milestone reached with a lot of updates.
    - Another massive item build overhaul due to mathcrafting.
    - Reordered many items, updated their comments and finished a few off.

    02/03/10
    - Soo much has been changed, removed and added.- Stat placement has been changed.
    - Ability Guide Updated
    - Major item build overhaul
    - Updated a few other sections.

    20/12/09
    - Changed item preference from Slash to Elder Parasite due to the change of Slash.
    - Added Symbol of Rage as a luxury item.
    - Removed Abyssal as a luxury Item.

    14) Credits
    Javu- Champion helping me fix 'the look' of the guide and fixing all my typo's. Also great tips and advice whilst helping me write it. Thanks mate.
    Trysaeder - For answering my questions on mechanics.
    Pilf- Some amazing mathcraft that really helped with the guide. Thanks man!
    [oiz]aimlessgun- Always appreciate mathcraft. Thanks
    Last edited by Blue_Aura; 05-14-2011 at 02:39 AM.
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



  4. #4
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    i play with blue regularly

    trust me,he carries hard

    formatting is complete, will now save this spot if blue needs it
    Last edited by Javu; 12-20-2009 at 11:23 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjornkloo View Post
    make the bots charge in 1v5 aswell and when it dies it says "team????????"

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    You should probably mention in your guide what you think priority targets for Chronosphere should be in a team fight.

    Personally, I like to nail the stunners first and obliterate them before the fight begins, but that's just me.
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverStars View Post
    You shouldn't get riftshards with charged hammer, because hammer mainly adds attack speed and riftshards is more effective with damage items, such as Savage Mace. It might be viable if you got a runed axe, but if you go straight for thunder>charged, it's not a good idea. Go for a damage item to make use of the AS, such as Shieldbreaker, and then maybe Rifts.
    That's not how it works. Sure, if you get damage items, Riftshards will crit for more damage, but with an item like Charged Hammer, you'll attack faster resulting in more crits.

    Think of Riftshards as an item that boots your physical DPS by x%, and you'll see why Hammer+Rift is used sometimes over Mace+Rift.

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    Highly doubt these figures are accurate, no real mathcrafting or proof here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lordi23 View Post
    As i said, it was more an advice then any kind of question. I tested all item setups and charged hammer + riftshards makes most dmg! By far.

    I have tested with some diffrent heroes, but mostly with Hammerstorm lv25 + behemoth heart + 5 armor(the 550gold item) in the inventory, he has more then 3000hp withthose items.
    I have taken the time to kill this guy with all setups you can think about for chronos.

    With Elder+ Charged hammer+ Riftshards in chronos inv, you kill him in 6,2 seconds in avarage. Tested 10 times on each item setup.
    (If you wonder how much dmg that is, you'l be able to kill 3 full health squishies in one buble with that setup, and consinder the proc of charged hammer does a lot of aoe dmg, which you dont have on any of the other setups)

    Your idea to go for Elder+ Savage+ Riftshards is much worse with 7,5 seconds in avarage.
    Elder+ Shieldbreaker + riftshards is 7,7 seconds in avarage.
    Elder+ Wingbow + Savage is 7,81 seconds in avarage.

    The other setups are all at least 1 second slower then charged+rift.
    Now you could say the first item after elder should be savage or runed axe for the farm and faster kills. I will tell you even this is wrong. As charged hammer is a very good farming tool, as effective as runed axe, in my opinion even better. BUT it also kills as fast as savage as a single item.
    So the timing for only elder + savage is 9,145 seconds in avarage.
    The timing for elder + charged hammer is 9,2 seconds in avarage.
    Elder+ runed is even worse, as you can imagine.

    To summarize, charged hammer+ riftshards is the best choice if you want the pure dmg and farming utility. I will just consider a diffrent setup if i need survivability.

    If you want more test results, i can post it all. Tested for like 3 hours to have supporting evidence for you guys.
    The reason why you do not want charged hammer is:
    Buildup: The build up from Runed Axe is MUCH better.

    The Lifetube: gives you MUCH better lane presence, allowing you to shrug off harassment. You cannot do this with Thunderclaw.
    The Manatube: allows you to "Blink Farm" Further increasing gold per minute and makes sure you have enough mana to TP to a tower to defend, then have at least a Timeleap/Chronofield.
    Both the Damage Items are Cheaper for almost the same damage as the Hammer.


    Scaling: Runed Axe scales MUCH better as the game progressers, Not only further speeding up farming but cleaving 40% of your damage inside your Chronofield is Amazing!@!@!

    Item Abilities:
    Cleave > Chain Lightning Proc (Aside from early game)
    Charged Up - A hero auto attacking Chronos is generally a dead hero anyways.

    CHANCE: The Main reason why you should not get Charged Hammer is Chance.
    You can be in a fight and it can proc every hit and you will smile and go buy a lottery ticket.
    OR you can be in a fight and it not proc once.

    Neither are very likely but its not worth taking the 20% chance for the proc.

    Thanks for the Calculations but Runed Axe beats it hands down .

    Oh and Runed Axe should be before EP if you can manage it .

    Quote Originally Posted by Gredenko View Post
    You should probably mention in your guide what you think priority targets for Chronosphere should be in a team fight.
    See Chronofield Combo's.
    Last edited by Blue_Aura; 07-07-2010 at 01:17 PM.
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



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    Did you test this before the patch or after?

    Did you switch between the attack modifiers (elder <-> shieldbraker) and how much armor had Hammerstorm?
    Casual Mode

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    Quote Originally Posted by pilf View Post
    Did you test this before the patch or after?

    Did you switch between the attack modifiers (elder <-> shieldbraker) and how much armor had Hammerstorm?
    I did the tests before the patch. That does not really matter as chronos has not been changed for the arguments on those items.
    So if you want to compare with post patch, turn shieldbreaker on as modifier.

    You can repeat all tests, you will get exactly the same resutls. Shieldbreaker is one of the worst dmg items. At least for chronos. Dont buy this one.

    If you want to know Hammerstorms stats at the test:
    Items: Behemoth Heart, Ringmail(5+armor)
    3148hp
    16,46 armor




    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Aura View Post
    The reason why you do not want charged hammer is:
    Buildup: The build up from Runed Axe is MUCH better.

    The Lifetube: gives you MUCH better lane presence, allowing you to shrug off harassment. You cannot do this with Thunderclaw.
    The Manatube: allows you to "Blink Farm" Further increasing gold per minute and makes sure you have enough mana to TP to a tower to defend, then have at least a Timeleap/Chronofield.
    Both the Damage Items are Cheaper for almost the same damage as the Hammer.


    Scaling: Runed Axe scales MUCH better as the game progressers, Not only further speeding up farming but cleaving 40% of your damage inside your Chronofield is Amazing!@!@!

    Item Abilities:
    Cleave > Chain Lightning Proc (Aside from early game)
    Charged Up - A hero auto attacking Chronos is generally a dead hero anyways.

    CHANCE: The Main reason why you should not get Charged Hammer is Chance.
    You can be in a fight and it can proc every hit and you will smile and go buy a lottery ticket.
    OR you can be in a fight and it not proc once.

    Neither are very likely but its not worth taking the 20% chance for the proc.

    Thanks for the Calculations but Runed Axe beats it hands down .

    Oh and Runed Axe should be before EP if you can manage it .



    See Chronofield Combo's.


    Okay i totally disagree to your second sentence "The build up from Runed Axe is MUCH better".

    The arguments are all right, if you consider a noob to play chronos. If you play bad you will have a hard time staying in the lane. On noob games, lets say 1600 or below, you wont have big problems with good enemys in the lane. If you still have problems, you will do good with lifetube. Agreed.

    But if your skill grows with chronos as well as your hon overall skill, you wont need a lifetube in the lane oO. I tell you i dont.
    When i play chronos today, i have no problems to stay in the lane, trust me about that point.
    I play 1700+ pubs(my psr is 1792 atm) with chronos without heaving big trouble to farm, and yes i get a "killer" faster then with runed axe.

    The problem is, you WILL need mana. My solution is nothing for noobs. I go for elder, mana battery for litle more mana, and the most important part are steamboots which i turn on "int" if the mana is low. Yes you get more mana regen, and yes you get an instant mana boost.
    The hp problem is solved with elder, i just farm the forest to regen, its as easy as that. At least for me.

    Now to your "scaling" point:
    I have no idea where you got that from, as i tested it all, i tell you again... you are totally wrong.

    If i play a match, and i know it will never reach the 40-50minutes mark, i might go for runed axe because its a litle easier to farm and the mana and hp regen will help you early on.
    Usually i dont think it will be like that, i better count on my team and farm myself up, even when i get not much farm for 30minutes, i will be full equipped 10 minutes later if my team just gives me a litle time.

    So i prefer to not go for runed, as i know it does scale much much worse then charged hammer.
    I really think you never tried it. Otherwise you wouldnt talk like that. In my ears it just sounds funny, sorry about that, but i have no idea where you get that from.
    As mantioned in my last post i farm Riftshards after the hammer, and riftshards is farmed in just a few minites, lets say 5 minutes for Lv4 rift.
    After that, you do the most single target dmg in this game(for the value).
    Reasons:
    Your attack speed is just incredible. You proc the lightning oftn enough in every infight to take away half hp of 1 or 2 nearby squishie enemys.
    Your "lottery" theority is just a theority. A wrong one. If you try it in the practice with charged hammer + elder on, you will realise the dmg output.
    Also your opinion about the 40% aoe dmg with runed axe:
    Well if you play some serious games without noobs in a match, you will not really have the chance to do any aoe dmg. Maybe you have the luck once in a match. Most of the time you will hit just one enemy because the aoe range is too low. With charged hammer you almost always hit one or even more additional enemys.

    Further on, if you finish riftshards after charged you will feel the enemys melting in your hands. I never got that feeling with the other item setups.

    As i said, i did the practical tests, a lot of them. I know the speed boost from charged hammer is more affective for the riftshards crit dmg then a pure dmg item like savage to raise the max critdmg. Not to mention the lower dmg on runed axe. So i dont really understand where you get your better scaling for that item from, so please some further explain.

    And now at a last part of this, i want to point out a fact to avoid any confliction:
    We are talking about the perfect setup for a hero that does a lot of dmg with all high dmg items in the game, as they are pretty much balanced.
    So we are just talking about the litle more dmg you get from another setup. In numbers, keep the 6 seconds killtime compared to 7-8 seconds killtime in your mind. I guess the most players will not really mind and will just take their favorit setup. It will all do well.
    Last edited by Lordi23; 04-28-2010 at 03:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordi23 View Post
    "
    I really think you never tried it. Otherwise you wouldnt talk like that. In my ears it just sounds funny, sorry about that, but i have no idea where you get that from.
    "
    Actually when I First starting playing Chronos and first started this guide Charged Hammer was my core.

    But as I started to play harder matches the main things I realised were

    *Lifetube is a must, without a lifetube my lane farm is crippled by a decent harasser, and the lower my health the more likely a gank is going to come.
    *Manabattery is not the soloution to your problems as it removes blink farming
    *Charged Hammer was too expensive as a first item to farm with and did not provide sufficient stats.
    *The inconsistency on the proc further slows down farm and can cause you to miss last hits. My gold per minute with the change to RA went up an average of 75. (3750g in the average game)
    *I always needed mana for when I was escaping, teleporting round the map for more farm or helping my allies.
    *The aoe damage is much better on Runed axe and Runed axe does scale much better.

    Charged Hammers Aoe Damage Average Per Hit

    - Charged Hammer= 250 x (1/5) = 50 - Magic Armor.
    (Chain Lighting x Chance to Proc - Magic Armor)

    - Runed Axe = 61+65 x (4/10) = 50.4 - Armor
    (Base avg of level 1 + Runed Axe Damage x % Cleave )
    ___
    As you can see from level 1 with no items RA's Cleave is already doing more AOE avg Damage. And its only going to go up.

    You cannot permabash anymore so you don't need the outrageous attack speed that Charged Hammer and EP produce which is why I used to get it.
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_Aura View Post
    Actually when I First starting playing Chronos and first started this guide Charged Hammer was my core.

    But as I started to play harder matches the main things I realised were

    *Lifetube is a must, without a lifetube my lane farm is crippled by a decent harasser, and the lower my health the more likely a gank is going to come.
    *Manabattery is not the soloution to your problems as it removes blink farming
    *Charged Hammer was too expensive as a first item to farm with and did not provide sufficient stats.
    *The inconsistency on the proc further slows down farm and can cause you to miss last hits. My gold per minute with the change to RA went up an average of 75. (3750g in the average game)
    *I always needed mana for when I was escaping, teleporting round the map for more farm or helping my allies.
    *The aoe damage is much better on Runed axe and Runed axe does scale much better.

    Charged Hammers Aoe Damage Average Per Hit

    - Charged Hammer= 250 x (1/5) = 50 - Magic Armor.
    (Chain Lighting x Chance to Proc - Magic Armor)

    - Runed Axe = 61+65 x (4/10) = 50.4 - Armor
    (Base avg of level 1 + Runed Axe Damage x % Cleave )
    ___
    As you can see from level 1 with no items RA's Cleave is already doing more AOE avg Damage. And its only going to go up.

    You cannot permabash anymore so you don't need the outrageous attack speed that Charged Hammer and EP produce which is why I used to get it.
    Well as i said, if you need the lifetube to survive in a lane, then you will always go for runed. I dont need it, i wont be harassed out of the lane, i just play too good, you wont harass me out.

    And again you just throw in "Runed Axe scales better" wihtout any evidence. Its just wrong, i explained why already.

    Your comment for the farm makes me think you actually never used chaged hammer, as you claimed. I can just stay around and kill a lane in 3 seocnds without giving them a hit. You just need to charge yourself.
    Even if you dont do that, you go to the lane and kill them all ?! how can you miss to lasthit ? Impossible...just dont let creeps reach them first.

    In the forest i dont need blink, i just walk and cut a tree so i reach creeps faster. The farming speed makes no diffrence. Also i stack them, especially acient creeps.

    I dont see any sense in those maths, my practical tests and experience showed me hammer is way better choice for me.
    So at this point we should stop to discuss. I gave you my point of view. No need for further discuss.

    Just wanted to say skilled ppl should give it a try.

    HF
    Last edited by Lordi23; 04-29-2010 at 09:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordi23 View Post
    Shieldbreaker is one of the worst dmg items.
    I also forgot to point this out, sheildbreaker is one of the best dmg:gold items in the game. Sorry your wrong.

    I dont need it, i wont be harassed out of the lane, i just play too good, you wont harass me out.
    Who are you playing against?

    And again you just throw in "Runed Axe scales better" wihtout any evidence. Its just wrong, i explained why already.
    I Did Via Math, The % Damage from your cleave scales, unlike the chainlightning proc.


    Your comment for the farm makes me think you actually never used chaged hammer, as you claimed. I can just stay around and kill a lane in 3 seocnds without giving them a hit. You just need to charge yourself.
    Blowing more mana, and dont forget there is a cooldown

    In the forest i dont need blink, i just walk and cut a tree so i reach creeps faster. The farming speed makes no diffrence. Also i stack them, especially acient creeps.
    Your just slowing down your farm then,
    As for stacking, what are you stacking with? You shouldnt have a whispering helm...

    I dont see any sense in those maths, my practical tests and experience showed me hammer is way better choice for me.
    I was just proving that you were wrong, thats all .

    So at this point we should stop to discuss. I gave you my point of view. No need for further discuss.

    Just wanted to say skilled ppl should give it a try.

    HF
    By all means give it a go if you like, but optimally Runed Axe is the better choice.
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



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    yeah sorry Lordi23 but you must be playing against some god awful players if you can stay in lane and not be harassed out of it as chronos. He has a leap, sure, but you have to actually stand next to creeps to kill them, and if your playing against good players the second you move towards creeps you should be taking as much damage as they can throw out

    and runed axe > charged hammer if not for anything else, then for blink farming. you can walk around and cut down your trees if you want, but over the course of a 30+ minute game, the time you spend walking around the forest WILL affect your farm

    back when magebane was OP and used in a lot of competitive games (before s2 added carries that could stand there and kill every creep on the map) simply because he could blink farm. If you weren't hitting a creep every second you were doing it wrong, and because of that he could out farm everyone

    so simply, runed axe beats charged hammer because you can farm it faster, and once you have it, you can farm faster than with any other item in the game

    which leads me to my main point, when you finally manage to get your charged hammer and riftshards, Blue_Aura will have his runed axe savage mace and probably at least one or two levels into his riftshards, and will proceed to rape your face. You can push your 'tests' as much as you want, but in reality, you won't just be given charged hammer and riftshards or runed axe and savage mace and put next to a 3000 hp hammerstorm and have to beat on him to win. In reality you have to farm and EARN those items, and you will finish Blue_Aura's build much faster, and MUCH easier, and then be able to build more items even faster

    so in conclusion, sure, in your theoretical 60+ minute games where you kill every creep in the map and lane against magebane and kotf with demented shaman babysitting you then your build probably is better, but in real life Blue_Aura's build is better

    and btw, i know Blue_Aura in real life and have played MANY MANY games with him, and i can assure you, he has probably played half of his games with charged hammer chronos and used to think it was far superior on him, but has since changed his mind because he realised runed axe is better. So yes, he knows how chronos works with charged hammer


    EDIT: oh, and s2 is adding more ganking heroes to the game atm, in an attempt to shift the metagame from the farm fest it is to a more ganking and fun to watch metagame to increase its potential as an eSport. so have fun surviving in your lane with your charged hammer build up, AND actually getting some farm
    Last edited by Javu; 04-30-2010 at 05:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjornkloo View Post
    make the bots charge in 1v5 aswell and when it dies it says "team????????"

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    Thanks Dave, Good points there
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Javu View Post
    yeah sorry Lordi23 but you must be playing against some god awful players if you can stay in lane and not be harassed out of it as chronos. He has a leap, sure, but you have to actually stand next to creeps to kill them, and if your playing against good players the second you move towards creeps you should be taking as much damage as they can throw out

    and runed axe > charged hammer if not for anything else, then for blink farming. you can walk around and cut down your trees if you want, but over the course of a 30+ minute game, the time you spend walking around the forest WILL affect your farm

    back when magebane was OP and used in a lot of competitive games (before s2 added carries that could stand there and kill every creep on the map) simply because he could blink farm. If you weren't hitting a creep every second you were doing it wrong, and because of that he could out farm everyone

    so simply, runed axe beats charged hammer because you can farm it faster, and once you have it, you can farm faster than with any other item in the game

    which leads me to my main point, when you finally manage to get your charged hammer and riftshards, Blue_Aura will have his runed axe savage mace and probably at least one or two levels into his riftshards, and will proceed to rape your face. You can push your 'tests' as much as you want, but in reality, you won't just be given charged hammer and riftshards or runed axe and savage mace and put next to a 3000 hp hammerstorm and have to beat on him to win. In reality you have to farm and EARN those items, and you will finish Blue_Aura's build much faster, and MUCH easier, and then be able to build more items even faster

    so in conclusion, sure, in your theoretical 60+ minute games where you kill every creep in the map and lane against magebane and kotf with demented shaman babysitting you then your build probably is better, but in real life Blue_Aura's build is better

    and btw, i know Blue_Aura in real life and have played MANY MANY games with him, and i can assure you, he has probably played half of his games with charged hammer chronos and used to think it was far superior on him, but has since changed his mind because he realised runed axe is better. So yes, he knows how chronos works with charged hammer


    EDIT: oh, and s2 is adding more ganking heroes to the game atm, in an attempt to shift the metagame from the farm fest it is to a more ganking and fun to watch metagame to increase its potential as an eSport. so have fun surviving in your lane with your charged hammer build up, AND actually getting some farm

    Ye thats what you think. Some people just seem to not believe there are some players out who can handle harassment oO.
    It may be hard, but it is possible. The life and manatube doesnt change a lot, even if you think it is the most powerful item in the game, as it seems.
    I can farm a lane good enough by hitting creeps at my tower and pulling my lane, stack and pull if needed to have them always at my tower. Even if the enemy is very hard and a hard ganker enemy in my lane, i still have the farm i need.
    So even in this worst case i dont need runed axe, and guess what, i think its the other way around.

    "when you finally manage to get your charged hammer and riftshards, Blue_Aura will have his runed axe savage mace and probably at least one or two levels into his riftshards, and will proceed to rape your face."

    Aha, with 30 minutes free farm without any enemy on the map maybe he can ^^. That was nonsense comment, just to show how much you know about it oO.
    I know i will have the same, or more farm then him with my items. And in the end, i will kill him with my setup thats how it will look like. All the other blabla which will follow now is just as i say blabla. So stop it now, if you only know how to farm with runed axe, use it!

    My practical tests are also the matches i play. Sure i dont play any pro games, so i can not say anything about 1900-2000 psr range or any league wars.
    Im just 1792 and i play those games for some time already, without any problems. I always outfarm enemy carrys, because i know how to. If you dont know, and you need your blinkfarm because you have no idea how to farm without infinite mana(which you don have even with runed)... then go for your runed axe ^^ and be happy with it.



    Edit:
    Just tried your superior "blinkfarm" with chronos. You must be kidding me.. what kind of blinkfarm is that oO. You have 400-500 mana. Lets say you are farming with lvl 10 crhonos. You can blink 3 or 4 times, then your mana is gone. With runed axe you have 2.5, maybe 3 mana regen. How long do you farm then ? wtf, i kill 2 stacked forests in the meanwhile, you wait for your mana ...
    Last edited by Lordi23; 05-01-2010 at 01:09 AM.

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    seriously, you must be playing against some hella retards if you can pull the lane, considering how easy it is to put a ward in the camp. and my point still stands, you must be playing against terrible players if they don't harass you in lane. i would have to see some replays to actually believe you can handle harassment with the shitty items charged hammer gives you while actually keeping your farm up.

    and no, he could farm that while being ganked constantly with his build. You should have the runed axe by 20 mins, and then your farm will increase SUBSTANTIALLY. so in the 10 mins it takes you to finish your charged hammer he will finish his savage mace. so at the 30 minute mark he will have runed axe and savage mace and you will have charged hammer. your build is looking great now hey?

    and sorry, but your point about freefarming for 30 mins without any enemies on the map applies more to your build than his. Your build gives you absolutely NOTHING to add to your survivability while you farm, so you have pathetic survivability for 30 mins? seriously, if you can actually farm for 30 mins like that then the people you are playing against are pathetic

    and you must be a retard. yeah, you got 4 blinks, you know how much time that will save you over the course of a game and how much it will increase your gpm?and you can't honestly tell me that when you were out of mana you actually sat there and waited for your mana to regen before continuing your farm can you?if you somehow run out of mana while blink farming then you can walk you know?and while you walk to the next camp your mana regens back enough to continue to blink farm.

    and btw, you can argue against it as much as you want and say 'you can outfarm any carry and you don't need blink farm' as much as you want, but the fact remains that if you get off your high horse and accept that you are wrong you will quickly realise that you can be the best farmer in the game, but it will STILL increase your gpm

    your last post was pathetic and full of moot arguments, irrelevancies and a ton of information that hinders your argument or are complete lies about blue_aura's build. most of your pro's about your build apply to blue_aura's instead

    you just dug yourself into a hole, have fun digging your way out
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjornkloo View Post
    make the bots charge in 1v5 aswell and when it dies it says "team????????"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Javu View Post
    seriously, you must be playing against some hella retards if you can pull the lane, considering how easy it is to put a ward in the camp. and my point still stands, you must be playing against terrible players if they don't harass you in lane. i would have to see some replays to actually believe you can handle harassment with the shitty items charged hammer gives you while actually keeping your farm up.

    and no, he could farm that while being ganked constantly with his build. You should have the runed axe by 20 mins, and then your farm will increase SUBSTANTIALLY. so in the 10 mins it takes you to finish your charged hammer he will finish his savage mace. so at the 30 minute mark he will have runed axe and savage mace and you will have charged hammer. your build is looking great now hey?

    and sorry, but your point about freefarming for 30 mins without any enemies on the map applies more to your build than his. Your build gives you absolutely NOTHING to add to your survivability while you farm, so you have pathetic survivability for 30 mins? seriously, if you can actually farm for 30 mins like that then the people you are playing against are pathetic

    and you must be a retard. yeah, you got 4 blinks, you know how much time that will save you over the course of a game and how much it will increase your gpm?and you can't honestly tell me that when you were out of mana you actually sat there and waited for your mana to regen before continuing your farm can you?if you somehow run out of mana while blink farming then you can walk you know?and while you walk to the next camp your mana regens back enough to continue to blink farm.

    and btw, you can argue against it as much as you want and say 'you can outfarm any carry and you don't need blink farm' as much as you want, but the fact remains that if you get off your high horse and accept that you are wrong you will quickly realise that you can be the best farmer in the game, but it will STILL increase your gpm

    your last post was pathetic and full of moot arguments, irrelevancies and a ton of information that hinders your argument or are complete lies about blue_aura's build. most of your pro's about your build apply to blue_aura's instead

    you just dug yourself into a hole, have fun digging your way out

    Wow, you play chronos and you farm savage mace + runed axe in 30 minutes ? cmon
    Lets stop this argue, its just beginning to get really funny.

    You can only do that in 1500+ games with a bunch of super noobs as enemy.
    No further comment.

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    why is runed axe ur 3rd item? that's too far to matter...

    (it's like getting health pots at the 20 minute mark, they help but I'd rather have a bottle...)

    and shieldbreaker could be a situational item (like if u have a dsham)
    Should've pre-purchased during closed beta... Could've had a V8 too...
    Quote Originally Posted by chu View Post
    tits or gtfo
    ...

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    I don't honestly know why it is sitting third down on the list. Yes it should be gotten really early.
    As for shield breaker, when i had it posted in luxuries I said don't get it with heroes such as dsham, plague, tree as it will be much less effective.
    Thanks for pointing that out .
    Last edited by Blue_Aura; 05-01-2010 at 11:28 PM.
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



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    also zeph's ult is pretty epic combo'd with chronos' chronosphere

    and most heroes that have synergy with his ult can counter his too (like zeph and plague)
    Should've pre-purchased during closed beta... Could've had a V8 too...
    Quote Originally Posted by chu View Post
    tits or gtfo
    ...

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    Updated that + chipper, thanks mate.
    Check Out My New Premium Chronos Guide Here. --- 0% Easymode --- (My GPM was actually 790 below, endgame figures are inaccurate)



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