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The camera should stay EXACTLY as it is right now!
Allow free camera rotation.
Allow free camera tilt.
Allow limited zoom (about twice the current height).
Allow strong zoom (about half the map size).
Unlimited zoom (god eye zoom, like Demigod).
Click the picture to see how Demigod handles zooming.
Demigod has the ultimate camera control. God eye zoom and free control over camera positin and angles.
I know that you DotA veterans don't want it ... I also have the impression that HoN wants to be true to the original as much as possible.
Personally I feel claustrophobic without the ability to zoom out (even the console cheat doesn't help much).
So, is there an official opinion regarding a better zoom and camera control? At least regarding the camera control I think I saw a video of HoN where the camera rotated freely around a battle scene, so I guess it was built in and active at one time.
With the option to zoom out, heroes that rely on being sneaky will become much less viable. Learn to use the minimap for map awareness. It helps.
Originally Posted by XoXoXo`
Zoom is staying the way it is sadly. So it's up to the modding community to fix it upon release.
Sounds like cheating if they are adding a function that isn't readily available to everyone. This is the same reason people who use 2 monitors don't get any extra vision, it wouldn't be fair.
Also, you can't -fix- something that isn't broken.
aren't the sneaky ones invisible anyway?
and there is the fog of war...
Is there line-of-sight obstruction, too?
this should be enough for ambush tactics and let's the game feel like it wasn't released in 2001.
Right now you have to make a choice, to look ahead, or behind, or to the sides. You can't see everything on the main window that your true line of sight actually shows. Fog of war isn't enough. If you can zoom out enough to be able to place your hero in the center and make full use of the line of sight, it takes a lot of map awareness away from the game that separates new players from the pros.
You sound like one of those oldschool Starcraft pros that cry about the option to select more than one building in Starcraft II and therefore about the loss of an important feature of the game...
I've already said it and I say it again; increasing the games skill-level by making it less confortable to play is nothing S2 should aim for.
You sound like a whiny three year old? What difference does it make what someone sounds like. You still can't ignore valid points.
Being 'less comfortable' to play is your opinion and I see no need to argue that point. The reasons you can't zoom out in WC3 is the same reason you shouldn't be allowed to zoom out in HoN. (Being released in 2001 is not the reason you can't zoom out, just FYI)
edit: I think it's very likely you won't be able to zoom-out in SC2 either, good example.
there are hundreds of reason why i would say no only a few that i would say make it further or free camera.
sadly this means keeping it wins, the only advantage of zooming out is more likely to see that gank coming.
You are, in fact, arguing that free camera and zoom would make it too comfortable. It would take an edge away from players that have been forced into getting used to very limited camera controls. They have such an edge precisely because it is not comfortable and the minimap is mostly a work-around.
The funny thing is that the exact same arguments can be used against many of the changes S2 has already made to DotA. Simplifying the shop takes an edge away from those who are used to the old way of doing it, etc. It's basically an argument against fixing the uncomfortable aspects of DotA and thus against HoN as such.
Regarding WC3's camera control restrictions, it should be noted that it happened to mimic the same model that its older predecessors used, and the longer back you look, the more this model was dictated by technological limitations. Unless there are sources that confirm the opposite, it would seem more plausible that they were just following the tradition. The same goes for SC2.
My issue with the zoom level isn't related to map awareness (I've got the minimap for that), it's related to space for move orders. When I'm dancing around with, or being chased by an enemy hero, I like to have both myself and the enemy in my view. When both of us are just out of range of eachother (for most skills), both of us are pretty much at opposite edges of the screen. This makes running backwards a pain in the ass since I have to pan and then lose sight of the other hero. The cramped zoom is the primary reason I've accidently clicked the minmap a couple times - because I have to keep my hero at the very edge to see what others are doing, and then I mis-click because there isn't much open space left on the screen.
I've been bumping my camera distance up each match, and it alleviates those problems.
Yeah, it strikes me as similar. People start to view features of a game's interface as game mechanics.You sound like one of those oldschool Starcraft pros that cry about the option to select more than one building in Starcraft II and therefore about the loss of an important feature of the game...
Last edited by Jayschwa; 07-25-2009 at 09:11 PM.
Actually I think rotation and tilting of the camera would be great options, zooming out doesn't sound like the best idea to me but it doesn't sound like the end of the world either.
How is it cheating if more map zoom is going to be included in future mods? I fail to understand that. Plus it's your opinion that it isn't broken. I don't share that opinion. I feel zoom is far too restricted.
That was the impression it gave me too, I'm not saying you are, but you DO give that impression.
I understand fully the implication of a limited visual to the strategies etc, but it DOES feel like a pretty heavy limitation, and I don't think it's needed or will deprive HoN of any strategic depth, if anything would make ganking more difficult and dependent on other aspects of the game (line of sight, blinks and invisibility, etc..)
This will maybe make players used to DotA zoom lose a bit of their edge over newbies, but... who cares? In my opinion it's even a good thing. (and while I'm not pro or anything I've been playing DotA a lot, so that will affect me too)
The aim of HoN till now (or at least what it seemed to me to be) is to simplify and make more easy, fluid, fast and intuitive all the GUI aspects of the game, succeeding on it in all they have changed. I think the zoom is just one of the bad things that Warcraft 3 forced on DotA.
Also...
True, but still some support for the 2nd monitor would be good to have every now and then, and I'm not talking about expanding the game area, that would be both unfair and horrible to see imho. I'm talking about putting in there a everything that you can see anyway but especially with bigger monitors becomes painfully small (like the minimap, teammates unitframes, game scores, etc) and all the stuff you can't usually see but don't have anything to do with the game (chat, friendlist, whispers, ...)This is the same reason people who use 2 monitors don't get any extra vision, it wouldn't be fair.
By the way, can anyone confirm that HoN once had camera controls?
This video shows rotation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ1VF...layer_embedded
You people don't understand WHY you can't zoom out in most RTS games do you. It's the same reason you shouldn't be able to in HoN. Think about it.
The camera is fine, but it would be nice to be able to rotate it as in the movie Aroddo posted 2 posts above me. When I played pudge in normal DotA I loved to use the rotate function when throwing hooks.
I would prefer if you could zoom out farther than you currently can.
Im with fingers on this point, there is absolutely no need for free camera to be implemented. Stupid idea.
Last edited by SoGi; 07-26-2009 at 09:35 AM.
I realize perfectly the reasons, it's one of the basic "tricks" knew and used since the '80ies to add """""strategic depth""""" to a game, but I always saw that more like a cheap way to do that, and in my opinion HoN doesn't need it. Sure, balance and gameplay would shift a bit, but not in a bad way imho.
I can't think of any strategy game that I played and came out in the last 2-3 years that has a zoom out that is so limited. Granted, except maybe in Supreme Commander you cannot zoom out to the whole map, but still you are able to see so much more than you can in HoN/DotA.
I'm not saying to allow HUGE zoom outs, I'm talking about a 25/30% more area on screen tops...
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