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I could be the only one that thinks this, but I want to voice my opinion anyway.
I'm finding certain heroes are kind of ruining the balance of the game in competitive play, most notably Maliken and Puppet Master. When a game goes for 40 minutes and Maliken or Puppet are against you (and you have the old school Dota carrys like Pesti/Soulstealer) even if you manage to take the out a lot and try and pressure there farming, they don't need very many times at all to be superior carrys. I've played quite a bit of top tier play and I've grown frustrated with games that arnt dictated by good play, they are dictated by how well you can turtle and just let the game go on for longer so eventually your Puppet/Maliken has certain items and they only need like 1 or 2 items where as other carrys need plenty more.
It makes for boring play and it makes for boring watching I'm sure when the games go on for 50+ minutes waiting for the carry to go off and eventually end the game for one of the teams.
So it leads me to the question. Why is this game dominated and focused on carry heroes currently?
The conclusion I've come to is this hero needs more a some more pushing power and stuff to stop this game becoming a turtle fest.
Note this is in the Clan & Competitive section and I'm not talking about Publics.
Turtling is definitely overpowered at the moment. It's just too easy.
Originally Posted by WaRDeN
carry strat != turtle != overpowered
bans are good
Pestielnce and Soul Stealer were never late game carries - they are mid game heros.
Need more not shitty pushing / ganking heroes ported.
As herbz indicates, you can't possibly expect soulstealer or pest to out carry puppet or maliken.
However, puppet is unique in that he is amazing the ENTIRE game, which is why he is usually banned, and probably could use a touch of the nerf. Pesti is good early to mid, maybe even to mid/late, but not after that. Maliken is good mid to late, soulstealer imo, isn't as fierce 1v1 as puppet or maliken but has more to offer in the form of aoe.
Puppet is pretty gee gee though, I must say.
puppet is fine imo. he has very low HP and has no AOE skils. he can be a good disabler thou. in competitive match, people ban more aoe heroes such as tree,enigma,behe . rarely i heard people ban puppet.
...
So those 600 damage aoe crits dont exist?
pushing strats will be more viable once they port undying, pugna, furion, kotl, tinker, pitlord, invoker etc... Give it time.
Tempest, yeah sometimes.
Behemoth, usually...
Tree?? I would fall off my chair seeing that...
Haha, people ban tree in competitive matches? Where are those matches played, on the moon of planet bizarro?
And no AoE skills, right...
Ophelia ftw.
Yes this is the case for about a week or two. Last month the game was heavily gank orientated, a few weeks before that, it was all about pushing (ophelia, defiler etc). The game is constantly changing, so no doubt this will too.
relax... its allllll beta :b..
well, puppet aint as standard pick as hellbringer, plague rider and magmus & demented.
Same goes for maliken.
So they are not as imba as you make them.
They are good yes, but puppet is a glasslasercannon, and maliken just need an early focus.
you cant whine about a lategame hero having his prime time in the late game.
Watch my own stream @ www.twitch.tv/thiazftw
Not helped by the fact both Puppet and Maliken can easily farm Ancient stacks. Buy a Whispering Helm now, get a Shrunken Head free later!
I just finished watching the D55 vs NrB game and it was pretty close though. Gotta say I think Maliken is a huge Hero. Need no items at all, gets a free Shrunken Head with any purchase of Whispering Helm, pretty hard to push against him early on when he has a built in teleport, mass disable and cleave. He really is an early game Hero that also has a great late game imo. Pestilence v2.0.
So yeah, the whine isnt really that the late game heroes have an amazing lategame, its that these lategame heroes have a strong enough early game to be able to turtle for 40 minutes, which is basically what the D55 NrB game was.
The only time I ever see turtle oriented strategies work (or used, really) is when there is a sand wraith on the team.
Maliken and puppet are both strong midgame and don't require excessive defensive play to win.
Sorry, this post wasnt specifically orientated around the D55 vs NrB game. Its just something that has happened in the past.
The Push heroes are not going to be coming any time soon as they are going to release with the 60 heroes they have, so two more agility are coming and one strength which I think is the Engineer.
I guess you can say there is some skill in turtling or making the game last longer and allowing the late game you have on your team to win the game but personally I don't see how this is skillful or how the game should be going.
I agree with you, and even bought this up in the general boards. There will be 60 heroes at launch, and yes we know more will come, but at this rate it would take a good year for all these heroes to be ported. This is assuming they plan on importing those specific "counters". In short, it's a gamble.
There just needs to be more rewards for being more aggressive and being the early pusher. I made some suggestions on my topic here: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ad.php?t=40830
Basically stuff like you get an XP reward for pushing a tower, better reward for killing heroes (they are barely worth more than a creep wave), and a much higher assist reward system that even rewards you when you died (assuming you are listed as an assist). Right now the game feels like an abridged version of World of Warcraft on who can farm AI creeps the most.
In my opinion both maliken and puppet have way too good early game skills wich allows for a easy path to a imba late game item build cause they both farm easy even if you are an auto attack noob and that is bad has it takes the skill out of the game wen you compare them to SW its just stupid has SW needs a babysiter or hes screwed and both puppet and maliken can solo easy... so either they both need a nerf of SW and some other carries need a buff has they are making other carries useless why would you play a hard early game carri wen you can play one thats just has good carri and has a easy early game... i remenber SW before the nerfs and guys he wasnt half as powerfull as maliken in many ways soo.. i vote for the nerf has if you buff the other carries early game then we will end up playing an AGI only game......
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