Going in a downward spiral on my mmr , any tips on how to handle a noob team into wining ? ( no trolling please )
If you indeed did belong in a higher bracket you would probably be there.
But you could go mid with your best ganking hero and make sure that the important heroes on the enemy team won't get farm.
You could also pick a heavy push team which in lower brackets are very, very difficult to stop.
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It's all about your own mindset. If you're too focused on blaming others and not improving yourself while in a match you'll never be more successful.
Two ways to get out of your bracket are:
1. Be a great mid and just constantly go mid with that hero. A good ganking mid hero can snowball very quickly in lower level games and guarantee success.
2. Learn to support. This is very difficult for a lot of players because if requires being selfless, but one of the number one reasons people consistently loose in PuBs is because they lack a support of any kind. As long as you fulfill this role you're actually allowing your allies to play as better players.
For the sake of contribution I'll give some general pointers for self-improvement.
1. stop overestimating yourself and yes I you are doing it.
2. Look at your own mistakes and try to remove them from your play.
3. Pick what your team needs not what you want or think it needs (in other words do your research on lineups, laning and counter-picking).
4. Accept that some players are better than you and instead of trying to degrade them try to learn from what they are doing.
4.5 Accept that just because you don't agree with a certain choice in a given game that the choice might hold some or more viability than the choice you would have made.
5. Don't EVER blame your team. At best it's actually your teams fault but blaming them won't help in any way. It won't help you improve and if you point it out in it's more likely than not to simply lower moral or start an all out flame war which benefit no one.
6. Don't blame imbalance it's just another thing that keep you from improving. If you seriously think something is more powerful than it should be either use it yourself or find a way to use it to your advantage.
7. If you hit a losing streak stop playing for an hour or more as going on will likely result in your mood getting worse and resulting in one of the above mentioned points or simply cause your focus to degrade into a state where winning becomes less likely than one would like.
8. Communicate with your team about what actions you are going to take with whatever means you can (writing, speech or pings).
8.5. Play with people you know with voice-com to improve communication.
9. If your team don't have wards buy a few (I don't care what you are playing if the support either can't or just isn't buying them it hurts you more not to buy them yourself than to do so)
10. If you are feeling that you are not in peak condition, sleepy, hungry, angry, sad or whatever don't play if you seriously want to get higher.
-You are 1433 MMR because your skill level is equal to that of 1433 MMR.
-The sooner you realise this, the better, since you will be able to understand the problem and fix it.
-Not meaning to insult/troll you, but you are a newbie yourself, and that's absolutely fine. But you need to understand that your next step is to improve if you want to gain MMR.
-So now that we know that you are a pretty bad player (for now), and your teams aren't the reason you have low MMR, start watching some pro streams, criticize yourself, practice stuff specifically (play a game to improve last hits and focus on getting 100% last hits for example, then play a game and focus ONLY on watching the map and improving your map awareness) and slowly improve your overall gameplay.
-When you become better, your MMR will rise. That's the formula.
Over the past year I've had my MMR fluctuate up and down between 1400 up to over 1700. Up and down multiple times. So there have been days I logged on and was 1433 MMR, but maybe 3 weeks ago I was sitting at 1705, and a week from now I'll be at 1622.-You are 1433 MMR because your skill level is equal to that of 1433 MMR.
Am I really a 1433 player? Am I a 1700 player? Somewhere in between?
Just looking at someones MMR at a specific point in time and labeling them for that moment isn't always helpful or accurate.
I know what you're talking about, but these other gentlemen are essentially right in what they say. Yes, you need to improve. Being a "1600 at heart" player doesn't mean you can play every hero at that level. Maybe you're even good enough to be 1600 with single hero. But that doesn't mean you really belong in 1600 if you can only play that hero at that level. 1 friend of mine is 1700+ but only whilst playing Devourer. He's good at hooks, and 1600 and below they don't ward enough to negate his massive ganking prowess. A mid ganker is indeed the best way to raise your MMR. Once you reach about a 50% win rate, you are where you belong, until you improve with any given hero or role such as support that you can over compensate for your team's weakness. At which point your win rate should start to rise, then it will gradually fall down to where you once again belong.
I know it sounds harsh, and everyone thinks they are better than they are, and it's the team's fault. But you clearly are not particularly good either. You have Andro as your most played, who most play as support. Though if you're an old DotA player you more likely try to carry. Otherwise, everyone else in your most played IS a carry. Sometimes your team might need hard support. The kind who dies 10 times a game, but keeps the whole map warded, the courier upped, and the creeps stacked. Either you are where you belong, or you are not realizing what you need to do to get higher.
Hope that helps.
OP: As others have mentioned, work on your own play. If you're 1433, chances are, there have been games where other players thought you were the one dragging them down. Plus players who are blaming others deserve wins the least IMO; why should someone who's so quick to ignore their own faults and thus least likely to improve their own play deserve more MMR? MMR is just a number to help measure your level of skill. If you're not improving your skill, why should your MMR go up?
If you drop under 1500 and find it hard to get up you are probably under 1500 player skill wise. The mmr system is working and if you would be lets say 1600 you would get there easily.
Well to give more information about , so you guys understand.
Background : I have played Warcraft 3 from the start , then dota v1.0 ( when it was called Aeon of Strife ) . I have played in different clans and also lead my own team into victories on local tournaments. I played HoN from the start , when it was pay to play mode . My mmr usually was around 1800 ( bf they remade the mmr system ).
This things happened to me today only but are repeated along the line:
1. A noob ally gets ganged 1-3 times , refuses to help team and then goes to woods.
2. I own the lane , with a partner or solo mid , but then the team loses in team fights .
3. Team picks 2-3 carry heroes , that are very squishy in the early - mid game , they get angry (bc they die )and don't participate in team fights .
Information that i wanted , is not related to my mistakes or how to play ( got plenty of experience ) but about how can you win games with a lower skilled team.
I have tried everything support , carry , nuke , ganger , tried to explain to them , tried to lead them. Nothing works if the enemy team has better / organized team.
Also a reoccurring problem that i have seen is they concede the game very fast , mostly in mid game , where the carries would grow and lead the late game. They would win if they could continue playing.
How do you deal with players that don't wanna communicate , get angry for no reason , pick ( or wait for the random hero ) wrong combo heroes ?
@[E]Katieeee well my question was related to how having 1 or more "lower skilled players " in your team affects your growth as a player . And possible solutions to compensate their lack of skills against a better / organized team. ( And a counter argument to your opinion : why would my mmr drop if i have the skill but the team doesn't ? )
Last edited by executor2; 11-30-2012 at 03:03 PM.
First off, some games are just lost sometimes... You are only 20% of your team no matter what you do (unless someone leaves, but you know). You can end in all random/single draft games where picking a solid team is impossible, and in all pick games where your team goes Wraith, Chronos, Scout and Solstice.
On a team like that I would probably pick aluna or some other support that fits somehow, but I would probably expect to lose that game.
Even though I would expect losing I would not rage though, I don't know if you're that kind of guy, but I know for myself that if people rage me, whether it's reasonable or not it sometimes affects my gameplay (I might have to prove I'm better than they said and overextend, or just miss a spell I'd normally hit).
If you want to secure your rating be a team player, even though your 14xx brown seems like a fool (and even though he is).
A second move you could do is get a sub acc. I'm not telling you to smurf, but have an account that you can play on when you don't feel like you're at your A-game.
You may be tired, thirsty, frustrated or feeling like playing a role or hero you don't normally play. If you care about your rating, just play on the lower rated account, instead of bringing your highest rated account into a game where you yourself won't perform your best.
A good way to increase your rating is to play with one or more teammates. If you play carry, find a guy on your skill level that plays support, and you can secure that at least your 40% of the team works out pretty well, and a good part of the roles of the team is filled correctly.
TL;DR: Pick what your team needs, don't flame (it affects the gameplay), get some teammates and consider a sub account for when you're not in your A-game
Katie's analysis is generally true for players in your bracket. I know because I have mentored dozens of players in your bracket for Project Epoch, and I have seen over a thousand hours of replays in that bracket. I can guarantee you that if you were supposed to be 1500-1600 MMR you would undeniably reach that rating over a period of time. This is because you are, as another reader commented, 20% of your team. Therefore, if you are not the cause of the losses you say you have unjustifiably receieved you have a 56% chance that every new game you start will have the "troll" or "griefer" on the enemy team. Thus, over a course of 100 games, you should have a 56% win rating, more than enough to carry you to your desired MMR goal. Because this is apparently not the case, it must be a something about the game that you are not recognizing. If you add me in game I can assist you in trying to identify what your problem areas are, and I can show you how to "compensate [for your team's] lack of skills" as you say. I look forward to your response.
I totally agree with u ackwell2.
I was 1300 mmr like 4 months ago because i was constantly talking to friends while ingame and trolling pretty much, but when i started to get more focused i instantly rushed up to 1500+ and after that i just went up and up. I am currently 1700+ and "Thagonz" i agree with some of the points u make, but you are actually NOT only 20% of the team. In 1300-1600 games you can be 100% if u wanna as long as you rape mid and just farm.
What you should do is never think you are better than the opposite team because then you would just chill. What i do is i think im playing against smurfs so therefore i play on my A-game and adventually win the game.
When i was around 1500 mmr all i did was pick sillhouette and go mid then just crush and win the game for myself and my team even though they were feeding or what not.
So my tip for u is: Learn 1-2 melee heroes that u are good with and 1-2 ranged heroes that u are good with and just play those heroes till u learn them perfectly and later on u just take what you have learned with those heroes and rape.
Last edited by P0wy; 11-30-2012 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Tips
Been reading of what the OP is going through and didn't really know if I wanted to post on this or not, but now I think about it clearly. It is true that eventually you'll get to the bracket you're supposed to be in based on skill, but sometimes when people say look at your own gameplay or what YOU (The epic capitals "you") could have done better that game, just seems like a brainwashing false/positive. I say false/positive because positive meaning that they're right to a degree, but they make it sound as if that's the only reason someone can't reach a certain bracket.
Even if the OP did take and do everything we told him, he could still just get those "unfortunate" games that you sometimes lose as Thagonz stated, It's that kind of thing that throws me off when trying to say you can determine ones skill by their MMR and knowing where they are, when sometimes it just wont help them at all seeing as how they have no control over other players who will willing do whatever they want.
Also, something that is highly overlooked, I'm sure people have noticed that trying to get out of low brackets is difficult because, one if you aren't on the level, then yea lol no wonder, but majority plays a big part in this game along items and hero choice, so being 1 man down is easily screwing the team over. While once you get to higher MMR you find more competent players and the game becomes easy. I know others tell people like the OP to look at their own mistakes and sure it helps to a degree, but I think common statements like those are likely to piss people over more than help them sometimes.
It's kind of one of those "Even if I did/do look at my own mistakes, It's not exactly going to change what happened in that game or make that player do what I wanted them to do to secure the winning chance better". I've viewed the OP's stats and they do show that he is a fluctuating player, but as I said previously, sometimes I just get that bothersome sense that when people tell others to look at their own mistakes and not blame others, that it's their way of not really having a better answer or way of explaining something. Do know that what they say has most of the truth to it OP, and I do not mean to challenge anyone here, it's just a feeling I get when players like this come asking these same questions receiving these same answers.
Last edited by Cammy`; 11-30-2012 at 07:26 PM.
Great feedback , i will try to implement it on my next runs.