A lot of the clans that are recruiting recruit based on roles - but a lot of them are looking exclusively for non-carry players.
Don't need a carry player!
Only require support players!
These are the kinds of clans already filled with obnoxious players who play to satisfy their role as stat padders. While playing carry is an essential role, it is not one that is the most skill-based. It is the support and the gankers and the middle that carry the 'carry' until he gets farmed up, where we then see a reversal of roles.
So when looking for a clan, look for the ones that are seeking good players, and not ones that say 'If you want to play carry, do not apply.' Chances are, they can't carry well anyways, and are already thick-skulled and won't take any constructive criticism towards their play. They lack humility and probably think that KD ratio represents the best player.
Real teams pocket their pride and accept role changes and benches.
(TL;DR - bad clans select preemptively based on roles instead of skill level. It doesn't matter if you're better at me when it comes to carrying, because we only want you to be ward *****! That mentality brings a clan/team nowhere.)
Last edited by F8; 11-19-2009 at 08:44 AM.
Also, if you look at the top clans that are recruiting, or at least, the more 'recognized' clans (QuC/FyC/FFS/etc. etc.) recruitment is based on skill. And typically, when you're at a high level, you play most of everything at a high level, excluding things like Valkyrie/Pudge (Positioning sense is all it is, as well as some degree of estimation. For some players this is more difficult.) and Meepo/Chen (Microing comes difficult to some players as well).
If you're a serious team looking for serious players, the only requirements I see should be ..
Must be from Continent X or be able to play during our primetime.
Must be able to scrim/play in tournys.
Must be good and flexible.
Must have mic.
Stringent requirements like age, and language really don't matter. In DotA, you have international players that own, because they speak the language of 'pro', basically.
I'd also gladly take a 12 year old brasilian (As ironic as that is) that plays like Vigoss/Ice.
Or it could be the fact that most of the players in this game prefer a carry role(has little to do with skill) so those spots fills up faster than everything else.
If you're expecting clans to not have roles you should wake up from the dream you're in.
totally aggre with OP on this one.
imho, in most games i feel that the support actually carries the game. Without a good baseline of wards, ganks and teleport-save their teammates and etc,etc...these so-called "carriers" cant farm well enough to carry their team to the late game.
i can start the debate with the support-to-carrier comparison list, but you gotta aggre with me at some point that support players require more "skill"/microing/map awareness than carriers
Yeah I agree XTN it requires more skill to play support, but what he's saying is that they shouldn't be recruiting roles, they should be recruiting skilled players instead.
If that's not what he meant then I apologize
The reason these clans recruit players instead of roles is probably because they don't have any favourite roles and master all of them, while most of the other clans (mine included) don't play as good with every hero and role in the game and have a favourite that we prefer to play. For example I find myself playing initiation almost every game, because I enjoy it alot more than carry. If I were to disband this clan and join a new one I wouldn't like to carry only because I might be better at it than the carry.
Good teams/players are always flexible, that is one of the reasons they have so much success. However, having a role in a team is definitely not a bad thing.
For example, I tend to play gank/support for our team rather than carry. That doesn't mean I'm not capable of playing carry, but I know that we have other people who have traditionally played that role well.
I think you'll find that most teams do have loosely defined "roles" but those may change depending on specific heroes that certain players excel with.
What you play can have everything to do with who you recruit, you can't expect every player in this game to play every hero absolutely perfect, most of the players in this game have favourite heroes and playstyles which they play more. It's just normal to recruit players who know how to play those roles then rather than using someone who doesn't play support that often as a support, you can only expect the top teams to recruit players who plays anything well.
I'm 100% sure you have weak heroes as well, anarchy, there's really no point in denying it because almost everyone has. Not admitting you do just makes you a failure.
Excellent point F8. I agree that dynamic roles and flexibility are necessary for competitive success.
and that's why they are recruiting support players? I like your logic.probably think that KD ratio represents the best player.
Anyways, if I get into such a clan now I won't play as a carry not because I can't but because there is a player that already is settled as the carry player for the team... apparently!
There's more to a fine team besides establishing roles, especially so prematurely.
I realize this, but roles are established when teams have that familiarity.Originally Posted by Maos
Player X has been newly recruited, while Player Y has been on the team.
Player X is 7 at support. <- Supports
Player X is 10 at carrying.
Player Y is 8 at support.
Player Y is 9 at carrying. <- Carries
Wouldn't it be wiser for the roles to be reversed? It's more complicated than that, with player strengths in certain heroes, etc. But that's what I'm saying.
You do what's better for the team, overall, even if it's causing certain players to relinquish their role for a match, or even their spot on the A roster.
1: Ronaldo must score every goal. If you get the ball, pass it to Ronaldo.
2: What if I can score?
1: If it's not 100% chance, pass to Ronaldo.
2: What if it's a 75% chance?
1: Pass to Ronaldo.
2: What if Ronaldo misses with his 75% chance?
1: Just keep passing to Ronaldo.
2: What if I miss with my 75% chance?
1: Should've passed it to Ronaldo.
2: Wait, what??
I posted this when I got really distraught at how lower/mid level teams are recruiting, from what I've seen in games and what I've seen on the forums. Meant overall to be thought ignition.
How should a new team begin/operate?
Except that a lot of recent matches are mid/weak feeding while Fenald babysits me to 15 minutes and roams since the lanes all collapse - winning because of his babysit and my carry.
I get what you're saying F8 and I sort of agree with you, it's just hard to recruit five players and then say "You're not good enough as support as XxScoutmasterxX so you'll have to carry" even though he might not like the carry role so much. If that person then decides he doesn't want to stay if he can't play the role he prefers you have to recruit another player and see if he's better at support than the first player again or if he's playing carry, or ganker, or .. you get my point
But yes, if there was a simple way to do it I'd also recruit players and not roles.
Having a role inside ur team isn't a bad thing. It will become bad if your players can't play anything else, cuz then u can't try new strategies to surprise the enemy team.
But most team fails when players just SWITCH roles for fun or anything else, i've seen it manytimes in dota. Its all about having more experience on what you're doing.
You guys don't know what your talking about, Carries are the most skill intensive/most important position. That being said you should be versatile and able to play most anything if you want to be considered a good player.
Versatility is key. I'd much rather have players playing the heroes they are best at (every player has a few choice heroes they really like playing and do better than other heroes with) than remaining mired in "I'm the carry you're the support" mentality. If the guy who plays an amazing Demented Shaman can play a beast Dark Lady then he should be on that hero if say D Shaman got banned/picked already and TDL was chosen as carry, even if it meant the 'carry' player would actually be playing support or a ganker instead. I think if you look at teams like  and WHP you can see these predefined 'carry' and 'babysitter' roles are regularly switched up.