This is my entry for Skyve's latest contest. He is intended to be an int Support/Pusher hero who focuses on constructing gadgets and units to support his teammates and push towers.
I warn you in advance there are some large Walls of Text to this hero because two of the skills have quite intricate rules in how they behave.
Description: The Tinker uses a modified version of a captured Electrician's Static Grip to stun and pull his enemies toward him.
-Automated Defense Bunker-
Description: Tinker can construct an Automated Defense Bunker that protects allies inside and automatically attacks any enemies that stray to close to it.
Description: Everywhere the Tinker goes is a new work zone. However, whether it is a Construction or Demolition Zone is the Tinker's preference.
Description: The Tinker's greatest tools and weapons are his self built Mechanical Minion. They are semi-autonomous robotic helpers programmed with the personalities of the Tinker's two partners: the Builder and the Demolisher.
Thank you to I_Purpose_I for the template.
Cool hero design, numbers look pretty nice actually. I don't have much to add he seems to fill a great pushing role. One thing I want to state though is that the 40% damage reduction from Bunker is pretty strong. Gladiators ult does a similar thing except the damage is taken at the end as well, just nonlethal. To prevent 40% of all incoming damage to multiple allies would be a little insane though.
Good to see you btw Peckers, I used to frequent Hero Drafts and am just now coming back. I've liked a good deal of your designs and think that there are many taht S2 could implement.
The reason the Bunker's Damage resistance is so high is that the bunker is not splash immune. So when you are sitting in the Bunker taking AoE, it will die Pretty fast. Its to simulate the Bunker being bombarded by Artillery.
The damage resistance maybe still to high, but I will wait for more feedback before changing it.
I am glad you liked me designs and good to see you again.
Edit: I reduced the damage resistance of Bunker to 7.5%/15%/22.5%/30%. Also, I readded one of my original ideas for the Mechanical Minions and changed them to channel with Tinker when Tinker constructs a Bunker or Minion and when channeling a Tp Stone. The idea behind this is to simulate the Minions helping Tinker "construct" the gadget. Also, it allows the minions to Tp with Tinker instead of having to walk all the way back to him.
Still, the bunker is extremlly strong. Kill one bunker, just place another one on the top of that dead bunker. Seems a bit OP for me!
Sorry for my bad English!
Very nice changes! Do want to see something like this implemented! +1
I am glad you liked them!
Edit: Made a nerf to Tractor Beam and some buffs to the Mechanical Minions.
Lowered the range and pull on Tractor Beam by 100 units to place it more in line with similar spells.
Increased the Mana of the Mechanical Minions to 200/250/300.
Increased the damage of the mechanical minions to 50/65/80 physical damage.
I will give some minor feedbacks that come in mind.
Don't you think the first skill is a bit strong? 3 seconds stun that pull the enemy. The thing with electrician is that he goes inot the enemy, puting himself into a risky position AND tinker is ranged, isnt he? Why not a grip like pollywog? even tho it would pull the enemies to your scrutures...I still don't know if that is powerufll or not
btw, I would highly appreciate your feedback on my Bee hero!
Sorry for my bad English!
I have been meaning to comment on Bee Queen (especially considering the similarities between her and Tinker's ult), but I have not been able to find the time because my school just started.
Polly's grip lasts 2.5/3.25/4.00/4.75 seconds. Tinker's grip lasts only 1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0 seconds but it also pulls the target. Personally, I feel it is rather balanced compared to the other grips in the game all things considering.
Replaced Tinker with Construction/Demolition Zone. The Zone is a passive aura that either increases allies base damage and armor based or decreases enemies base damage and armor. The aura's strength is increased by the number of Mechanical Minions alive.
The reason for this is two fold. The first is that the old tinker was a blatant ripoff of Engineer's old Tinker combined with KotF's old Nature's protection. The second is that the hero had 5 activatable abilities. The new toggle aura switches the Mechanical Minions modes giving this version of Tinker only 4 activatables.
Made two big changes. The first is I added the ability to target existing Automated Defense Bunkers or Mechanical Minions to channel and Heal them to max hp over the course of the channel. The second is I switched the Mechanical Minions ability to channel to be a third skill. If you use Automated Defense Bunker while in Builder mode, the channel time is reduced by 0.75 seconds per minion who completes the channel and the magic armor of the bunker is increased by 2 per minion who completes the channel. Max magic armor buff of 6. If you use Tractor Beam while in Destroyer Mode, the channel is decreased by 0.4 seconds per minion, and if the channel completes, the target is stunned for an additional 0.4 seconds per minion and has his armor lowered by 3 per minion for 3.0 seconds.
The reason for the stun upon channel completion is so the channel reduction does not decrease the overall stun time of Tractor Beam. No matter how many mechanical Minions you have the skill will always stun for 1.5/2.0/2.5/3.0 seconds if you complete the channel.
Since you commented on mine (even if I didn't agree with what you brought up), I decided I would read yours and try to give my insight on it
The first thing I have to say is that.. well, I found it really complicated :/
1- Tractor Beam is basically Doctor Repulsor's magnetic pull thing or electrician's grab, reversed... but it deals damage, and "stuns" the user instead of slowing, and makes it so everything wants to kill the target (I find this insanely strong to be honest).
2- I didn't get that skill much either.. is it like terrormount, but everone can get in it and are protected from everything as long as the bunker is up.. and the bunker itself attacks..? I got confused by it, but I don't think it is... game breaking
3- That however, is overpowered beyond belief. I will just say that old Engineer used to have a skill to lower tower's armor and attack speed (and damage as well I believe), but it was a single target, and really was judged broken to the point it never got put back when they changed Engineer (they modified the turret, but completely removed the "tinkeer" skill, for a good reason). I believe that aura is just way too strong for the game, and S2 removed Engineer's skill that did that for a reason. What your propose here is stronger than what engi had, so do what you want with that information
4- Biggest source of complicateness.. So they are controllable? not controllable? Just what are they and what can you do to them? They use spells randomly? Are they like forsaken archer's skeletal minions? I just don't get it, I really don't :/ I would personally focus on creating a HUGE army of mechanical minions with low HP if I were you, and then have the bunker be the ultimate, and have only your mechanical units go in them (aka, change the focus)
If I were to fit that page to the "Hero" page of the website, or make a summary for in-game details, I would have a reaaallly hard time
Last edited by MushidoZ; 09-23-2012 at 09:10 AM.
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I will admit this hero is majorly complicated. I went way over board in designing him.
Tractor Beam: Its channeling, so your target's lane partner can stop you from competing the cast by stunning or silencing you. Granted the pull makes it stronger than elect's skill and the damage makes it stronger that repuslor's skill, but this is the heroes only nuke or CC option. Both elect and Repulsor have multiple nukes and CCs in addition to their stuns. Its the same logic as why Pesti's stun stuns+deal damage+slows on an 8 sec cool down.
Automated Defense Bunker: Terror mound adds global movement capabilities, can be placed by far away from tremble with a pet, and can not be damaged by nukes. This skill can be damaged by nukes and cannot be placed by a pet, but it gives its bonuses to all allies inside and has an attack feature. Considering this and the fact that Tremble is a semi-carry, while Tinker is a pusher/support, ADB is balanced when compared to Tremble's Terrormounds.
Construction/Demolition Zone: I feel a better comparison would be to Sol's Bulwark or Andromeda's aura than Engineer's old Tinker. And this skill's numbers is comparable to theirs.
Mechanical Minions: They are similar to EW's Bird in that when certain conditions are met they will either attack or cast a spell. I agree this skill is complicated, but it is a necissity if I want to get across what I want with this skill.
I think the major problem with the aura is that, as you said, it has comparable numbers to a limited quantity of auras. What happens when you add in Plated Greaves into the mix? 40% extra damage on creeps (or Normal damage+20%+20% which is even more) allong with armour in the same skill would be quite 'ard. Then again, half a second ago, I was CERTAIN that aura buffed itself depending on how many helpers he had active O.o did you ninja-edit that in between me checking other threads and returning for the comments?
I think Construction-zone is fine-ish, especially if it doesn't apply to allied heroes (but then again, that's a LOT of buffed creep damage), I would maybe consider lowering the whole thing by one "step" in some way (1/1/2/3 armour?, 4/8/12/16% damage?). I am, however, fairly new at this whole numbers-thingie and making heroes etc.
As of now, I'd just leave it on construction-zone, get plated greaves and get an abyssal skull and demolish towers soon as I got a creepwave, especially with two minions of my own to provide a whole lot more damage. Also, what happens if I bunker down next to an enemy tower? Does that too protect my creeps with an additional 30% reduction? I think it's just an overall combination of damage reduction on his skills that make him incredibly powerful when you add in the auras already existing in-game. Maybe make the bunker not work on creeps? And make the Construction-zone creep-only whilst also preventing buffs from Plated, Sols and RotT-items.
EDIT: Also, the bounties are very small, Terrormounds gives 50, Engi Turret gives 50, I'm not sure on his mines though. FA skeletons give 5 each but they die in one hit. Any idea on puzzlebox minions? Basically, this guy uses a lot of gadgets that give a LOT of bonuses, but you lose very little in them duying. Artesia's ult, Hellbringer's Malphas and Wildsoul's Booboo all give 100 gold each upon death.
EDIT 2: Gawain works on only warden, these minions, although killable, are a lot stronger I'd reckon. By being gadgets, they are not affected by AoE attacks, meaning that they'll be moving around a teamfight unprohibited, supplying 30% movementspeed to the team, and healing everyone whilst also dealing damage at a constant basis (attacking rather than one strike every X seconds).
Last edited by Seasons; 09-23-2012 at 07:17 PM.
I did edit Construction/Demolition Zone and removed the bonus per number of helpers alive. Realized after my comment that while the min damage was acceptable the max damage was not.
That is a very good point on the bounties. I have updated accordingly.
The helpers have 400hp. That is not very tanky even with splash immunity.
Edit: Overall the damage boost and defensive boost is roughly equivalent between the two modes of the Construction/Demolition Zone. This is to encourage the player not to choose the mode based on what benefits his pushing strength, but on what mode the helpers will do best in. Keeping helpers constantly in defensive modes will be a bad idea on ganks.
At the start of a gank would be the only time I can imagine. At the end of the gank however, I'd gladly switch to construction to be able to towerdive with little effort, what with me having at least one aoe heal for the towerdive, allong with increased armour. Then again, maybe for diving, I'd keep the 20% reduction in damage taken.
The more I'm looking at this however, the more I'm starting to feel that Construction Zone maybe only should apply to buffed damage to the towers. Whilst demolition should apply the -damage percentage to enemy creeps only. This way, you can't towerdive easy breezy with it, nor can you push a tower with ludicrous ammounts of basic minion buffed-damage. On his own, those stats may seem ok, but together with a minion-making hero such as Ophelia or Keeper, you are looking at a LOT of creeps all getting something like:
+6 armour (4 from skill, 2 from abyssal) and +20+20+15% damage, blocking 10 damage (boots), and, if we're talking extra nasty, a bulwark for a lot more damage.
Don't replace it, just change what the buff applies to.
Construction - Boosts friendly towers
Destruction - Nerfs enemy creep damage, helping the creepwave push through to the enemy tower whilst not nerfing the enemy tower itself