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I think it would've been better if they weaken his lategame with a longer cd on his first skill and weaker stats gain and on top of that reduce the damage from his former combo then ruining his fast and smooth gameplay. Most people will agree that MK was kinda overpowered but this is just the wrong way to balance him because now there is no real situation where he is better for the team then other ganker/carries some examples would be pebbles, fayde, deadwood, and even gauntlet or dampeer are probably much better now. Most of this heroes can potentially take down heroes by their own within a few seconds like MK but they didn't scale well into lategame. Mk was strong in all stages of the game from laning phase till end game but in my Opinion his early/mid game should be were he shines and his power should fade lategame (except he snowballed pretty hard). And this is how S2 should try to balance him because in his current state his early game can be still strong but he won't be able to one shot other Heroes the way he could before and mid game he is going to have a pretty hard time except the only thing he does is afk farming or ganking with some good disablers and late game he can't go toe to toe with other carries when they are equally farmed because his only strengths in lategame against other carries would be his good stats gain and his illusive dash.
HoN needs an ingame tournament function like in Wc3 / Bloodline Champions
It is, but for the most part almost nothing you do in HoN requires as much speed and precision as trying to stun a Monkey King that's doing his combo. It's just annoying and it clearly wasn't an intended mechanic. Much like Pebbles' combo wasn't intended either back in DotA: the difference is that Pebbles' isn't frustrating as hell to deal with, so they kept it.Originally Posted by PrimalApe
Imagine if Pyro's ult was a ground-targetted skill and you could miss it if you missclicked. That's the level of twitch reactions we're talking about, and I don't think it has a place in a game like this. If a hero with 20HP is within your autoattack range he should die, not survive because he can leap around at 800ms so you can't click on him, and you can't ground-attack to target him either because there are creeps nearby.
Last edited by Elman1; 08-18-2012 at 10:26 PM.
In my opinion its a change in to a bad side ,because without hes combo he is nothing.. no fun anymore to play with him.. you can just.. maybe decrease hes dmg when he doing hes combo ,but.. this 1 second rly makes the gameplay bad. Proppably its a great change for those who hates mk,but still.. i think hes % in "most played heroes" will go down very fast. Hes combo is powerfull ,but as i said just decrease the dmg.. this is only 1 way to save this hero in my opinion.
And.. what can i say ,you actually can look at the.. hmm you can take even gauntlet ,he is doing more dmg then mk with hes combo.. it is more then annoying. MK's combo looks like nothing versus hes. I said what im thinking about decrease hes dmg on abilitys,thats all.
Agreed.
Last edited by foxplaying; 08-18-2012 at 10:18 PM.
I think DR is comparable to MK in being annoying to fight against and retardedly mobile. Difference being the amount of farm required to activate faceroll mode, and the fact that when DR gets out of his ulti, you can actually click on him. Whether or not you actually hit him with whatever it was is another story (he can just ult again) but at least it's not down to your mouse accuracy to be able to fight him properly.
Of course there are all kinds of other twitch factors in this game, like say when you dodge a PK->stun with a blink, activate barrel roll or geometer's or lava surge at the right time, etc. I get that. There's obviously room for some twitch (a lot even) in this game. I'm not saying it's all bad. It's just that the heroesspecifically have crossed the line to the point where the twitch overtakes other gameplay factors. Yes, faking out skills/autos to bait nomad ult is fun and all but at some point it starts to feel more like a fighting game than a strategy game. Maybe it's intended I don't know. I am similarly annoyed with MK. I do not think he is actually overpowered, just annoying and out of place in this kind of game.
Last edited by Antimodus; 08-18-2012 at 10:47 PM.
"Proclamation was made, in the King's Name, for all Persons to keep Silence" - House of Lords Journal, Volume 20, 24 June 1717
The difference between a noob MK and good one was so huge, anybody can tell. To pull off good moves with MK is skill whether it's shifting a combo or not. Noobs do not run around killing anything on MK, cause they can't faceroll on MK. Noob Mk players didn't know how to combo, how to play, or how to gear, and a newb MK is the easiest thing to own in this game.
Why nerf it then? It's clear from the majority of posts i've read about this issue, that all real MK players aren't going to even play the hero anymore, and I understand them. The hero was totally ruined cause of what? Being too hard to click? Boohoo? It was never OP, wasn't played at comp level barely, and started to lose some shine endgame, and only worked with good players so RIP to the King.I do not think he is actually overpowered,
Haters will always hate. Especially those that get raped, and don't have any clue how to play MK (which is the majority of haters in this case). S2 just proved to me that giving noobs easy mode is more important then having an iconic fun hero with a high skillcap. Any gaming company that even mimics blizzards design choices in dumbing down content, and ruining heroes simply because of a massive influx of noobs that are crying, will never have any support from me.
S2 should have been proud of MK, it was the best thing they ever designed
Last edited by PrimalApe; 08-19-2012 at 06:16 AM.
Playing against monkey king i never had a problem actually targeting him, and since u can actually target someone and click on the portrait i dont even see how that i relevant to balance...
Buff him then. It was an annoying mechanic that has no place in a game like HoN, and it was only fun for the one guy who was actually playing MK.
Doctor Repulsor is a good analogy as they both have annoying mobility and a high skill ceiling, and DR has a lot more freedom of movement since he's not limited by cooldowns, unit placement or basically anything but mana pool. DR even becomes invulnerable while he flies around, while MK doesn't. Yet somehow DR is still not nearly as annoying as MK is.
It's because alot of newbies got raped by a mk, they cant handle him so they are crying 24/7 MK OP MK OP
too bad those people are representing the community when it comes to balance changes
but a lot of newbies got raped by all kinds of other heroes, including ones that are quite comparable like pebbles and DR. why do you think they hate on MK specifically? wanna try actually thinking this through? or you'd rather prefer to continue to whine instead?
Random heroes that rape with burst: DW, Parasite, Pyro and MK
Anyone can press R on DW, and score a kill. Codex parasite is very easy to play. Pyro can mow down people just as fast. Basically, anyone can do insane burst with any of these heroes because they're point and click and straight forward. MK is not like that and this is where the problem lies. Only the good own with MK, the bads can't. They cry because others have the skill to play him, whereas they don't....jealousy breeds hatred. If haters understood what it takes to play him, and could actually do so themselves, nobody would be crying.
I for one disagree with S2's decision. I don't find targetting MK hard. I have been dominated by MK several times and won many games against MK. If any, ANY hero gets an early advantage from kills or letting him free farm for 10 minutes, they're going to get fat aight. So the whiners should actually make it clear why MK is over powered.
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We are talking about MK balance and the clear nerf he recieved, what are you referring to? The main MK thread in general got locked so we're talking here. It's fine.
There was a 7-8 page topic in General Discussion that was closed because the discussion belonged in Balance, now it's in balance, and people can't discuss freely?
What?
Yea
I've seen it happen a few times now, they close a GD thread that discusses a specific hero. Put a post there that says there's a balance forum for discussing it and close. They forget to mention balance forum has its own requirements for posting. When people try to continue the discussion they were having before, they get shot down for breaking the rules of balance discussion.
Admin decisions being kind of inconsistent with themselves.
Don't know why they insist of forcing general discussion material away from general discussion.
MK was also one of those heroes that if not played good, would cause your team to start yelling.
With this ill-thought nerf, bad players can play him now without the fear of getting called out, because the skillcap on MK was mostly removed, making it a noob friendly hero. If they did go the "reduce damage" nerf route, then MK would still need to be played the way it was (which not many people can do).
With this nerf, S2 gets less crying from bad players, and noobs get to play a hero that doesn't have much of a skillcap anymore, and is gimped. Get rid of pro MK's dominating, introduce the hero to the mass audience, aka noobs, this is the reason he was nerfed.
Last edited by PrimalApe; 08-19-2012 at 01:36 PM.
I don't know about others, but I'm not claiming he was overpowered. He was just a major pain to deal with, and he was extremely frustrating to play against unlike any other hero in the game (Except maybe Silhouette and Valkyrie, but those at least you can actually target).
If you don't find him hard to target I don't know what to tell you. I had trouble clicking on him and I'm not exactly bad at using a mouse. Landing a skillshot on him is even harder.
im just laughing guys. your only argument against MK is that hes frustrating to play against? well ofc if you don't know how to counter him. imagine ur playing against scout/nh/fayde without eyes, rev wards, dust. u will get (!"extremely"! haha poor bastards smashing heads against keyboards) frustrated too. just learn how to counter him. buy some nullstones, get void talismans, learn how to position yourself in teamfights, predict a gank, get wards.. its not that hard. i wonder if you haters ever played MK and i really doubt it.
+ why didnt YOU pick monkey king when everything that you need is learn how to shiftqueue W+E? why didnt you tried to have some fun with him too?
dammit those whinny noobs.
+ i would really like to see some S2 statement WHY did they cripple him like this? what was the reason..
Last edited by SS_Totenkopf; 08-19-2012 at 04:46 PM.
Thats a part of the balance? Imagine if all the heroes had 100 movement speed, dont u think ranged heroes with skillshots would be overpowered?
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The sole purpose of this forum is to provide insight through intelligent analysis. That means that if you came here angry or teary-eyed because a certain hero owned you in your last game, you will be warned.
It's been alot of these answers like fEEDOBEARs. They do not belong here. I've been monitoring this thread since it was created because I like the MK debate but lots of GD posts has moved here to Balance Discussion where they don't belong. This since they don't contribute to a discussion.
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