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Hello Newerthians. I'm making this new thread to basically help people out there that aren't very familiar on what to pick, counter pick and where to lane. Lately I've been having random people, when obviouly playing All Pick, left click pick carrys like Scout, Corrupted Disciple and what not.
It has happened to me aswell that the enemy team pick heroes with channeling spells, like Pandamonium and Magmus; later on the picking phase, I decide (for the team's sake) to counter pick them with a Vindicator. Later on, 2 players rather go Scout and Sand Wraith, leaving us no hope of winning the game. When we go ingame, the 2 carries go to the lane with the jungle (easy lane) with a hope of getting some farm or over last hitting opponents. To be very honest with you, there was just NO hope of them to win the lane, or even last hit decently. To conclude the idea, they threw the game away when we HAD victory by just counterpicking their 2 other shown heroes.
I really don't know if people do this on purpose or they do it because they don't fully understand the game. Hopefully, this thread will become useful and people will just think twice before picking 2 or 3 carrys per team and help them understand the game a bit more.
Now then, you do have to keep in mind that there's no need of having 2 or 3 carrys in the team. This will definately make you compete with your own teammates over last hits and will not be benefitial in the long run for the team. That's specially the reason of having a proper lineup which I will try to introduce very briefly:
1 carry going to the lane with the jungle
2 or 3 supports, one supporting the carry
1 or 2 gankers, preferably a good mid hero taking the solo lane mid
1 tank (preferable and can take the role of support)
This is just the very basic lineup people tend to play in all the games out there. In terms of metagaming, professional players tend to do other things that amateurs are not able to do, like running a double jungle or having a successful trilane.
Support Role:
It's VERY important that you support your team, specially your carry, all game long. The carry has to stay in the lane getting ALL the last hits. Keep in mind that you should not be taking last hits over the carry and make his life harder. It is your duty to keep the runes warded and the jungle warded aswell. Also, you should be trying to harrass the enemy team off the lane so your carry gets time to last hit properly without taking any damage or risking his life over it.
Counter picking
As I tried to explain in the beginning, when you're playing AP you're always going to have to look for counterpicks on enemy heroes. This will give you an insane advantage throughout the game and will probably give you the win. Another good example would be this:
The other day, I went into an AP match and Rally just had come out on the patch update. I did read the abilities of the hero and how it worked. For those of you that don't know, Rally's ult is pure Physical Damage. The enemy team then picks a Rally and a Deadwood. Well, they just gave the game to us by picking those 2 heroes straight off the bat. I picked off Jereziah and in every team fight we had, they did no damage to us through those 2 heroes by the mere fact of ulting with Jereziah at the proper time (Phyisical Immunity).
This is how important counterpicking is. It might just give you the game right away or make you win it through the mid game or the late game in team fights.
To sum up, please avoid left click picking carrys out straight away in the first second of the picking phase (specially if you're OJ or the lowest MMR in your team). Leave this to players with more experience so you can guarantee yourself and your teammates a secure victory. Always follow your role throughout the game. Outplay your opponents with proper item buying and win matches all day long!
P.S: This guide is not meant to troll or flame anybody. It's just annoyed me so much lately that newbies or players with 300 games or more make this mistakes while playing AP. Most of them utilize the excuse of "I want to try this hero" and what not. Seriously, there's something called Public Games where you can try out whatever you want and still not get flamed by anyone. You can go practice your games over there and get better through bad judgement. I'm not saying newbies shouldn't play MMR, I'm just saying that they should listen to more experienced players so they can become better players themselves.
Thanks again, and happy HoNing!
a 5carry game can be won if you are against bads.
5 semicarries is even more viable since they usually have abilities useful in teamfights and do good with low farm.but replacing agi semicarries with int's might be a bit better idea if you are thinking of teamfights.
3 carries is good if you send 1/lane.if 2 fail,the 3rd will be ok.valk/magmus,tdl mid,silhouette/glacius for example.
0.0000001% of people under 1600 will support and like their job or will full support.
only warding is not supporting.
i rarely saw a tablet ws/pyro in 1500,all going spellshards.
pyro buy one ward please i up'ed cour as glacius.say wha?imma finish ma' chalice asap it's gonna win the lane/game.
what is hellflower?oh,anti-magebane.never ever do a hellflower unless you are against magebane or hag.codex is waaaaay better burst.
sheepstick?nope.spellshards+staff on pyro.just need one teammate to get rid of that nullstone from madman.
Last edited by Clytemnestra; 08-14-2012 at 10:07 AM.
I completely understand you. But you never want to get so many semi-carrys or carrys. Probably you would get those, since it's the lower 1.600s bracket and no one gives a darn. But it's just unproper gameplay. That proves that people in this game have no freaking idea about how to play correctly and don't understand the game a bit.Originally Posted by Clytemnestra
For example, if you get to fight a team that's got an insane pushing ability, like a Torturer, a Keeper, Tempest, Kraken and Hag then you have NO possibilitys on winning. It's just impossible to stop their push 8 mins in. Even if your semi-carrys try, I hardly doubt they will be able to hold the towers down. I've seen this happen in meta gaming so much.. There was this sole time when I saw a Warbeast and a Wild Soul split lane push and wreck towers down. The WS had a 15 min Mock and it was an inevitable GG call for the enemy team.
I do agree with you saying that warding is not complete support at all. What people don't understand when playing a WS, Pyromancer, Pollywog Priest is that you HAVE to let your carry get those extra last hits and that you shouldn't be spamming skills on the creep waves as they come in. This is the most retarded of all between the things that people do. Later in the game, if you're actually losing the game because of feeding and this previous reason, they'll start telling things like "Why aren't you carrying?" or "Oh my god, you're such a noob. You can't carry %$"!." Excuse me sir, but you've been interposing in my way of carrying and you've made my life harder by just spamming skills on creeps and messing up my last hits instead of harrassing enemy players in the lane and warding up.
I completely understand you aswell when you talk about item concept. People just have no freaking idea on what to get first, next or last. Suppose we had a team with an Aluna and a Defiler or a BH. The enemy team then has a blink hero like Magebane or a Hag. The Aluna rathers get a Hellflower when 2 of your heroes have the best silences in the game. Buying a Sheepstick would do insane big difference. But oh well.. I guess this will never change. I just want people to realize their mistakes when playing. I want them to learn so others will have a better gaming experience.
Last edited by Unforgiving; 08-15-2012 at 10:16 AM.
I would get hellflower also. Cant count on people silencing them in the crucial moment. Hellflower isnt also picked just for the silence, it has dmg, as and mana regen.
semicarries can't push?
pyro,aluna,valk all have aoe to kill all minions.
hellflower deals bonus damage which melts the carry and it doesn't allow him to shrunken,which would remove bh or defiler silence(not sure about bh,but i guess it does).
A hex would work even better. There's just no point on going Hellflower, specially if we had a carry running around aswell. It pretty much depends on their team comp.
And Clytemnestra, they can push. But there are way better heroes for pushing, like Wild Soul, Tree, Tempest and Ophelia.
i was saying that they have abilities not for pushing,but for countering pushing strats.they nuke the hell out of tree,ophelia and tempest creeps stoping their push and making some gold also.
Yes. You're somewhat right. But what's inevitable is a teamfight, and I'm pretty sure the pushing team would win it off, meaning more towers.. I mean, it's just something too shallow to detemine but I'll put my bets on it. ^^
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