Soulstealer

[cWiLiNi]

A HoN player's perspective on what to expect from Shadow Fiend as you enter into DotA 2:


I accidentally stumbled into Shadow Fiend while trying to play Shadow Shaman, and so I figured I might as well write the transition thread for all the HoN players who happen to be getting into Dota 2.


First skill - Dota 2(Shadowraze) vs HoN(Demon Hand)


The overall concept of this skill remains exactly the same, but there are a few key differences I would like to point out. Damage and range is consistent between both Dota 2 and HoN, but area of effect on the razes is only 250 as opposed to the 275 in HoN. This is coupled with a slower cast animation for Shadow Fiend's razes over Soulstealer's hands. Also, it was really hard to tell exactly how big an area my raze actually was hitting from the center of impact. This may have just been due to my inexperience(largely likely). This resulted in it being more difficult to combo creep waves, than in HoN.


Agility Gain
Dota 2 : 20+2.9
HoN : 20+2.4


Second skill - Dota 2(Necromasty) vs HoN(Soulsteal)
Dota 2 : Maximum souls: 12/20/28/36
HoN : Maximum souls: 8/15/23/30


Third skill - Dota 2(Presence of the Dark Lord) vs HoN(Dread)
Dota 2 : Radius: 900 Armor Reduction: 2/3/4/5
HoN : Radius: 900 Armor Reduction: 2/3/4/5


Ultimate - Dota 2(Requiem of Souls) vs HoN(Soul Burst)
Dota 2 : Damage Radius: 1375/1425/1475
Damage Per Line: 80/120/160
Slow Radius: 700
Slow Duration: 5
Slow and Attack Damage Reduction: 15%/20%/25%


HoN : Damage Radius: 700/700/700
Slow Radius: 700
Slow Duration: 5
Slow and Attack Damage Reduction: 15%/20%/25%


Thats my point of view from Dota 2 and HoN and the hero looks much stronger in DotA 2.My questions making this post is why this changes that are made in DotA , not made also in HoN the hero is so cool i have seen a few competitive HoN teams trying to run him but the lack of escape mechanism make him not vialable i don't realy know why.Maybe if HoN have made the changes DotA 2 have making him more heavy dmg deal it would be realy nice.


Easy tip for S2 from me.If you made this hero competitive viable you have the option making a Alt Avatar so little kids watching competitive scene aka HoNCast , would like to play the hero and also buy the Alt Avatar.

ps cannot post it in balance changes

[[xBM]Ackwell1]

SS is for sure weaker in hon, but he is still picked in competitive games. Actually it is one of the few heroes that haxxeren plays in col. I think the hero is very close to being fine, he has pretty rough first few minutes and is fragile to ganks. But when ss is given few early souls and some protection (wards, miss calls etc.) he will really shine. He has one of the best farming abilities in the game, one of the most devastating team fight ulties and pretty awesome late game thanks to the massive farm he should get from to his farming ability. He for sure doesnt need nerf, but buffing him even a bit might make him way too strong considered he is already in the competitive scene pretty frequently. But tbh I really loved the times when ss was very very strong in right hands.

[[DRAE]`blackbird`]

He makes up for squishyness with an amazing ability to farm in lane and stacked neutrals. But in the games current meta he is worse than newer heros that have a stun/slow + escape and also semi carry ability.

[OnStrike]

I really do love SS, but it's no wonder why he's rarely ever picked up in competitive matches any more. When you look at other ranged carries such as silhouette and more recently draconis, they both have escapes and pretty much equal farming abilities, so they will always be favouried over SS. And then FA who may not have a true escape, or isn't quite as good at farming (still very good though...) she has a very nice immobolise and great pushing potential. Short of him recieving a rework to help him defend against ganks (wards wont always be enough) I don't see him ever being viable again.

[[S2]MacroHard]

He recently got a significant buff.

Relevant to this discussion:
http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ltimate-Change

[[CM]ZoSo_oSoZ]

SS is for sure weaker in hon, but he is still picked in competitive games. Actually it is one of the few heroes that haxxeren plays in col.

Completely false

I really do love SS, but it's no wonder why he's rarely ever picked up in competitive matches any more.

True

[SB7]

Where is the balance forum?! ;D

IIRC they nerfed the dmg on hands at some point in the not so distant past when the meta was different, and he was still pretty strong. That isn't exactly helping him right now in a stun/gank heavy meta that goes against his skill set as much or more than any other hero. They didn't revert the nerf on his ult cast time did they?

I'm not sure making his ult easier to more effectively hit more ppl will help him that much. He's still gonna be food most of the game unless he gets great circumstances. Thus why pick him? He's very high risk, and IMO, doesn't even have the same reward as less risky heroes.

He needs some kind if slow or hp/ms buff. Something very slight, but just enough to at least give him a chance to escape a gank. Maybe a very small stacking slow on his -armour passive. Or give him bonus hp for each soul he has, like 5 hp/soul or an additional 1% hp/soul. Something stupid like that.

[PicardsFlute]

Icefrog tends to balance with buffs, while S2 tends to balance with nerfs, from my experience. If you look across most of the DotA ports, most of their DotA counterparts have higher stats and numbers than in HoN.

Making a comparison between the heroes at a numbers level is pretty pointless IMO, because each is in a very different game at this point. Comparing their play styles and flavor differences is totally valid though, like how you did with Shadowraze vs Demon Hand.