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Thread: targeted HP shield buff (strength support item)

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  1. #1

    targeted HP shield buff (strength support item)

    Description:
    A mid-level item that can apply an HP shield to an ally at the cost of your own health.

    Purpose:
    This item is generally useful for strength based support heroes and/or teams with glass cannons.

    Recipe:
    Shield of the Five + Major Totem + Recipe = Thrull's Cover
    Upgradable 3 times

    Cost:
    803 + 540 + 500 = 1843/2343/2843/3343

    Stats:
    +6 int
    +6 agi
    +10/13/16/19 str
    +5 armor

    Affect (targeted activation):
    Applies Thrull's Cover to target hero for 20 seconds
    and
    Applies Thrull's Siphon to self for 6 seconds
    Cooldown: 30 seconds
    Range: 400 units
    Cost: 50 Mana

    Thrull's Cover:
    150/250/400/600 hp shield (like nome's wisdom) with 50% absorption. i.e. 50% of incoming damage is applied to the shield instead of the hero while the shield still has available hitpoints to absorb.

    Thrull's Siphon:
    35/60/90/125 dmg/s non-lethal DoT
    prevents healing


    Explanation:
    This item needs to be upgradable to keep even with inflation, both in item cost and hp gain. I could make it just percentage based, but then I would worry about it being to cost effective from a scaling perspective. The cost is similar to other support items. If you do the math you will notice the total damage to self is higher than the armor applied to target, specifically +60/110/140/150. This is to discourage constantly applying the item to one's self. Even though the item's main activation cost is in health, it also costs a small amount of mana to allow mana drain to counter it. The 6 seconds of healing prevention on Thrull Siphon is to help ensure there is risk associated with casting it. The non-lethal aspect of the DoT is to prevent easy self denies. The 20 second duration puts Thrull's Cover inline with chipper's hp magic shield. The 50% absorption rate ensures it's more of a buff mechanic, than a save mechanic. The recipe takes an item which already has the notion of shielding someone, and an item that only has one other recipe right now, and produces an item with nice all-around stats, which is important for a support item.

    Edits:
    rescaled siphon damage
    added 3rd upgrade (current scaling makes lvl4 about 64% more effective in late game than lvl1 is in early game)
    Last edited by CobaltBlue; 08-09-2012 at 11:41 PM. Reason: working on balance

  2. #2
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    Hmm, I can see this item being a core item for Jere/Accursed, and as a HUGE fan of both those heroes, I LIKE :3. The only thing you should consider is the numbers on the shield/drain. Your shield is like this: 100/150 strength gained per upgrade. You should make it 125/125, which will make the shield 150/275/400. That way, you will get an even amount of bonuses with each level. The DOT, from 35/60/95 should be made 35/60/85. This way you will lose 90 more health per level on this item.
    One last thing. This item will be a real pain if you are not a strength support hero and also, there are maybe 3-4 STR support heroes(Jere, Accursed, Electrician and Behemoth) and in some of the games, they will NOT focus on health items but support items and mana items(Behe). It shouldn't prevent healing, just make you receive half of the healing and regeneration(in a TF after you use this item, you are as good as dead) and this way it will not be THAT big of a punishment(when you think about it, you will lose more than the team will gain, because the shield isn't THAT strong, while the debuff is DEADLY).
    The concept is great, but, as I mentioned above, it will be really, REALLY devastating for you(and your team if you are needed to survive at least the first 5 seconds of the teamfight ^_^). BUT I WILL LIKE IT, because it has potential(you should think about the numbers). Peace out =]
    Please check out my movie - Lust for Power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhNWQ...ature=youtu.be will be grateful ;d
    Also, check out my ideas for bringing Platemail back into the game! http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ew-armor-items

  3. #3
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    Post or pre mitigation?

  4. #4
    to powerfreak: hit-points don't increase linearly, which is why the upgrades don't increase linearly. I suspect the heal prevention would be important to keep people from abusing the item with an astrolabe etc. --but you might be right and all the numbers are subject to balance change obviusly.

    to pwn: I imagine if it was added to the game it would be post mitigation, and then balanced around post mitigation, but I'm sure either way could be balanced properly.

    It would be an amazing pick-up for electrician I would imagine, even if he couldn't simply purge-off the siphon... Some of those extra hit points on beefy heroes like accursed, electrician, cthuluphant, devo, moraxus, etc. are wasted since the enemy team just ignores impotent tanks.
    Last edited by CobaltBlue; 08-08-2012 at 08:41 PM.

  5. #5
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    Hmmm. Seems balanced but I'm not sure what hero would get it. I like it though.

  6. #6
    I don't get the thrull's siphon part. Why would you spend mana to give a weak shield to an ally and take sick damage yourself.

  7. #7
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    Flandre is right, you really need to either beef-up the shield OR to reduce the effect. Also, I know that Health doesn't increase linearly and if you keep the item as it is, then it would be a waste to upgrade it early game and the shield will be useless late(I mean, 400 HP shield isn't that much, even if it is post-mitigation and late game can be nuked with 1 stronger spell). It either has to scale with Max HP OR, and this is a HUUUUGE OR, make it cost % from YOUR HP and then grant that amount as a shield. The numbers should be smth like... well, 7/13/17%(rough numbers) and that way if your tank/str hero has around 2,5k health, you will grant the carry a 425 HP shield and the more HP you have, the stronger it will be(but this will make the item quite OP in the hands of really beefy heroes with 4k+ HP .
    In the end, I think that making it have more than 3 levels will do the job. 1-2 items for early-mid game and 1-2 upgrades for mid-late game(the shield can have a Str of 125/200/325/500 health and the damage can be 35/50/75/100. This way you will still lose more health than the shield your ally will gain AND the item will be a little bit stronger). ALSO, one LAST thing - the cost is for early-mid game and the shield, while it is GOOD for that time, is NOTHING compared to the negative effect. You have to balance-out all of those aspects, because while the shield is actually pretty good for Mid game, the Damage you will take is just too much(and, when you think about it, if it stops ALL regeneration, if you are a Jere/Accursed/Devo, this will be the END of you and especially Accursed, because it will not proc ANY heals from his ultimate. I hope that you will think a little more about those numbers :P Gonna log-in later to see what you think ^_^.
    Please check out my movie - Lust for Power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhNWQ...ature=youtu.be will be grateful ;d
    Also, check out my ideas for bringing Platemail back into the game! http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ew-armor-items

  8. #8
    to Flandre: if you are playing, for example, support accursed with 2.5k health, and you are supporting an FA with 1k health. You losing 500 health is nothing, and FA gaining 400 EXTRA health is pretty substantial.

    to powerfreak: I wouldn't be apposed to giving it an extra upgrade, but it will be a bit harder to balance to make sure each upgrade is worth the 500 gold without making the end result be too powerful if someone completed the item mid-game. The thing about the heal prevention is it only lasts 6 seconds, while the shield lasts 20 seconds, so ideally you'd be casting it at least 6 seconds before combat like a plague shield. If you don't think that's a reasonable scenario, two compromises would be: increase the shield duration to, say, 30/40 seconds, OR make the item be a save mechanic instead of a buff mechanic by removing the heal prevention, reducing the shield duration, and increasing the percent absorbed.

  9. #9
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    to CobaltBlue: That sounds better I mean, 400 HP will be melted QUITE fast and having it as a buff will be somewhat good, but it will be better if it absorbed more and if you could cast it in the middle of the fray without penalizing yourself THAT much. Also, if you want it working like a buff for the fight, I can see what PPL will do with it:
    Cast it, wait 6 seconds, use a HEAL on themselves and then wait for the cooldown. That way, you will lose around 10-15 seconds from the buff, rendering it useless. IF you want it to be a buff, make it last at LEAST 40 seconds so that you will not waste THAT much of it.
    Please check out my movie - Lust for Power http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhNWQ...ature=youtu.be will be grateful ;d
    Also, check out my ideas for bringing Platemail back into the game! http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/sh...ew-armor-items

  10. #10
    Great item. I second the notion however, that a total prevention of healing is a bit large of a penalty. I would say simply make it a healing Reduction and keep it as is.

  11. #11
    Place shield on ally before burst incoming, stormspirit yourself -> You are now invulnerable and will take no damage.

    Damage has to be HP-removal to prevent this, and I think this is all too close to 's spell that does almost the exact same thing.

  12. #12
    to Rkey:
    table like rally skill, storm spirit is like kenisis skill, shrunken head like DM skill, nullstone like moraxus skill, Sheepstick like polly/WS skill, hellflower like ophelia/BH skill, shroud like mm/scout/nh/fayde/etc skill, brutilizer/savage like chrono/ramp/pesti/etc skill, etc.

    Also, if you are willing to buy a storm spirit specifically for avoiding the DoT damage, I see no problem with that. Your team might, but I don't.

  13. #13
    Build on Empath, jump into Electrician GGGGG

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