Who here thinks Flint is DOGKaiser's next target to derandomize?

[[RTH]scoutTier]

That's like saying throwing a coin will have a 50% tails given enough chances. Yeah well given enough chances it could be 70% tails. I just throw a number I like and keep throwing till I get it. Given enough chances I can get any number (excluding 100 and 0% ofcourse, as those can't be corrected by throwing more often).

That's exactly what I'm saying actually. If you flip a coin 1,000,000 times, it will be 50% tails, or very damn close to it.

http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~stte/phy104-F00/notes-2.html

Read up.

[[RCT]Taocat]

That's exactly what I'm saying actually. If you flip a coin 1,000,000 times, it will be 50% tails, or very damn close to it.

http://www.pas.rochester.edu/~stte/phy104-F00/notes-2.html

Read up.

Everything this man said. I love you.

[foxmindedguy]

scoutTier never implied these things.

All he said was that if something happens by chance it is the player's responsibility to react to it.

A reaction when an ally Blacksmith gets a 4X: The enemy just got 4X'd I should jump in and help finish him off.
A reaction when I get 4X'd: I'm nearly dead so my presence in this fight will be limited. I should retreat in case he gets another multi next time.

Please don't put words into other people's mouths.

Yes, I mentioned in the very same post that only a retard or a guy suffering from turtle reflex syndrome will not take note of 4x multi-cast. However, you can not deny the fact that outliers exist. There could be a game where if you count my total attacks (in the game) and how many times I proc'ced mini-stun, you might find a ratio less than 40% (even if you count the duration after I got lvl 4 hollowpoint shells). Other times I could have aggregated a higher percentage, although I agree on average the number would be around 40%.

But this is like balancing the fortunates against the unfortunates. This is not a hard concept, outliers can screw you over, while they are rare, they shouldn't exist in a competitive game (especially to a degree that Flint suffers from, Blacksmith can still function without getting multi-casts, Flint without MANY hollow-point shells sucks).

[[RTH]scoutTier]

But this is like balancing the fortunates against the unfortunates. This is not a hard concept, outliers can screw you over, while they are rare, they shouldn't exist in a competitive game (especially to a degree that Flint suffers from, Blacksmith can still function without getting multi-casts, Flint without MANY hollow-point shells sucks).

You're writing in some kind of sensationalist format. Luck will exist in a competitive game, and it is what can keep it fun and different. Do you want to remove all luck from the game in its entirety?

And like I said, flint will auto attack a LOT during the game. He will proc around 40% of the times. Flint doesn't "suffer" if it procs maybe 39% of the time, and he certainly won't suck. You're over exaggerating.

And even if you weren't. How would we "fix" his skill? More charges?

[TwoUmbrellas]

How would we "fix" his skill? More charges?

It currently has a 40% chance to stun for 0.2 seconds. Just make it a 100% chance to stun for 0.08 seconds.

[[RCT]IsmaelVera]

It currently has a 40% chance to stun for 0.2 seconds. Just make it a 100% chance to stun for 0.08 seconds.

I don't think this is a good idea. The 0.2 second stun is noticeable, but the level 1 0.05 (I think) stun isn't noticeable at all, more like it's there to cancel channeling.

[Bill_Braskey]

That's like saying throwing a coin will have a 50% tails given enough chances. Yeah well given enough chances it could be 70% tails. I just throw a number I like and keep throwing till I get it. Given enough chances I can get any number (excluding 100 and 0% ofcourse, as those can't be corrected by throwing more often).

When you flip a coin ten times, the it's more likely to have 7 tails opposed to flipping 100 times and having 70 tails, if your goal was to show a coin toss at 70% chance. You're an idiot if you thinking performing a test MORE times will yield a more inaccurate view probability.

If you flip a coin 1000 times and get it to show tails 700 times, I'll buy you lunch.

[[RCT]Taocat]

You're writing in some kind of sensationalist format. Luck will exist in a competitive game, and it is what can keep it fun and different. Do you want to remove all luck from the game in its entirety?

And like I said, flint will auto attack a LOT during the game. He will proc around 40% of the times. Flint doesn't "suffer" if it procs maybe 39% of the time, and he certainly won't suck. You're over exaggerating.

And even if you weren't. How would we "fix" his skill? More charges?

We have had this thread before. He is constantly rallying to remove all types of chance from the game.

[foxmindedguy]

We have had this thread before. He is constantly rallying to remove all types of chance from the game.

Apparently, the person who has authority (in terms of balance changes) is listening

[[RTH]scoutTier]

We have had this thread before. He is constantly rallying to remove all types of chance from the game.

Would be quite a shame if this kinda stuff was implemented ;/.

[[RCT]IsmaelVera]

This exact thread popped up a while ago, and it was ignored. It's a bad idea.

Calling a 40% chance "playing the stock market" is the craziest exaggeration that I've ever heard. We don't need another charge based hero, or a hero with a passive that goes on cd when procced. You know how much his passive will crit (40%) so play accordingly.

Luck is fine in a game like this for one reason - good players will react quickly enough to luck and capitalize on it. A smart player will notice that the blacksmith he's playing with just got a 4x multicast, and instead of just sitting there, will immediately react. This is just a quick example but there are instances of this in the game everywhere, such as in runes (type, location), flint passive, blacksmith ulti, and hitting/ missing uphill.

The inverse of this is also true. A bad player will ignore or just be ignorant of the luck based things in the game. This may cause him to not capitalize on luck and miss a huge opportunity.

tl;dr - Some amount of chance is fine in a game, it's how you react to the chance that makes you a good or bad player.

This is most likely the best response to this thread.

[Jonguh]

When you flip a coin ten times, the it's more likely to have 7 tails opposed to flipping 100 times and having 70 tails, if your goal was to show a coin toss at 70% chance. You're an idiot if you thinking performing a test MORE times will yield a more inaccurate view probability.

If you flip a coin 1000 times and get it to show tails 700 times, I'll buy you lunch.

It's only more accurate if you decide how often you'll flip before you start flipping
It's inaccurate if you just stop flipping cause you like the amount of tails you've gotten.

And in theory you could flip a million times and get tails a million times. Wel I guess a 100% is accurate now isn't it? Nope still 50%.

[[f13]zstarkey42]

The thing is, a few rng's use that kind of logic to 'even out' results and eliminate those statistical anomalies. Like, for every amount of fails you get in a row, the probability of rolling a sucess in your next attempt increases incremently.
I have no clue if whatever rng algorythm HoN has uses this though.

There's a difference between absolute randomness and occurences where you can manipulate the odds (say, swiftblade's ultimate and many others for example). Being 'random' does not necessarily mean it's totally unpredictable and many games are all about estimating your chances and knowing how/when to take advantage of them (like poker). This makes for an interesting game. Pure random with absolutely no ways to control the variables usually doesen't.

[[FSJ]TheLebowski]

give him the staff effect!

[[Toho]Aki]

Please remove Chronos' rewind. Giving a hero the chance to take 3 times the damage of his actual HP pool by just putting a skillpoint in a passive, that's just broken. Example: Chronos with 850 HP: getting nuked by succ, getting ultid by succ, taking 2 pyro nukes, lost ~20% HP, how is this not a completely broken and thoughtless skill?

[Hubaris]

Please remove Chronos' rewind. Giving a hero the chance to take 3 times the damage of his actual HP pool by just putting a skillpoint in a passive, that's just broken. Example: Chronos with 850 HP: getting nuked by succ, getting ultid by succ, taking 2 pyro nukes, lost ~20% HP, how is this not a completely broken and thoughtless skill?

Not sure if troll or Backtrack