Dear S2 : The current state of hon and it's improvement

[Infamous23]

I"m a true hon fanboy, like I play some dota 2, diablo 3, skyrim and a lot of other **** load of games, but in my heart hon is will always be my number 1. I love hon and mostly everything about it. I just feel that hon has the potential to be the best game ever created from now and forever =D. I've been playiing hon since closed beta right out of release when there was such a limited amount of heroes and till now. This is coming from a player that solo qued all the way from 300 mmr (pre compression) all the way to about 1770 mmr( post compression), yes i been from hell and back and have played at all levels of this game from the noobiest bracket all the way to a semi pro bracket :P. There is just a few things that I feel in my humble opinion that are really flawed in this game.

The vote kick system needs to be re-done up. I just don't know whats the point of having a vote kick system, when its not being used as its suppose to be? How many times has your team attempted to vote kick you for no legitimate reason and the other team passes it because there getting **** stomped by you? or how many times has a clan of 4 troll you all game with vote kick attempts because you don't cater to them or just out of spite for the lols..Or someone griefing all game long and the other team will never NEVER EVER PASS the vote kick. IMO the vote kick should just be removed, it just gives the trolls( that equate to 95% of the community) a tool to be a complete jerk and bad mannered in a large majority of games. Hell even I admit to abusing the vote kick on rare occasion , like to send a message to the 0-15 glacuis thats raging on the mic telling everyone that they suck at this game or even to the dude calling me a ******, **** spic or chink i'll gladly put up a vote or pass it. Sometimes there is valid reasons to abuse the vote kick but majoirty of the time its the 1.0 kdr 5 carries in my played hero vote kicking you for missing a stun with pyro , like these kids are so bad and they vote kick you because u play poorly but in fact they play horrible in most there games consistently thast why there stats are ****en terrible with about 50% win percentage to boot. Like if your losing a game but busting your ass to get the w but you got feeeders that don't listen, sometimes the vote kick could be semi viable to send a message though :P. All in all the vote kick system is mega flawed.

Also hero balancing. Just not liking these patches with small minor adjustments like .5 stat buffs/nerfs, we need real substance. Like balphagore needs to be buffed, if not just remove him from the game, I remember i was stuck at about 1450 mmr with about 400 matches played with balphagore, I played the most baddest balpha in the entire world and i was still suck at that rating because the heroes was just so underpowered. I stopped playing that hero then i soloed past 1700 mmr(pre compression) right after, haha. I feel the most over powered hero right now is magebane, he needs to be nerfed and i'm not saying this because I got RA most played on all my accounts either :P. LIke seriously....its just too easy to take over a game wtih him early on and mid game and especially late game, hero is just too good. OH sure you can say that " just stun and cc him" , but same thing can be said about any hero makes no sense. How easy is it to take over the game with MB at all stages of the game? so easy, I suck wtih MB and i can solo past 1800 mmr rigth here right now with him if i really wanted to but i'm not gonna do it because ricing all game is boring and its like taking candy from a baby which is zero fun. Like serously....he gets magic armor froma blink and the duration of the buff is on till i'm able to blink again and put the buff back on? Like MB blink>>Hag blink, hags blink has a longer animation and it also doesnt give any kind of buffs so why in gods name does magebane get a buff after blink when hag doesn't and why does hag have a longer blink animation still? seriously...oh and the mana drain is the best passive in the game but its still not a attack modfier..this hero is beyond broken in my opinion. Too easy to win with too high of rewards for not doing a whole lot either, makes zero sense....Gemini the only thing that was broken was the fact she could recombine wolves and get full hp again or the fact that she had base movement speed equivalent to a hero with frostburn and steam boots with her ulty. Instead they the nerf her wolves making them channel abilities thus cemeneted her into the trash tier IMO.. Meh just my 2 cents on a few balances, there is a lot more I wanna say but I don't really got the time.. Don't get me started on ravenor either :P....

More skillshot heroes would also be great for this game, more high risk high reward type heroes would really benefit this game IMO.

Just my 2 cents about the game I love.. INB4 TROLLS AND INB4 YOUR BAD WITH 1.20 KDR... half my games were played as a full support on this account, check out the stats on my other accounts better stats and higher mmr than anyone who posts in this thread.

tldr; just read it its not that long

[Infamous23]

EDIT: forgot to thank S2 for making Amun Ra...even after the nerfs i'm still raping with him having the best time of my life I'll never take dota over hon since this hero is here he's my bread and butter .

[[Pra]SolarFlare22]

A kick function in any DotA-like game will never work properly. You will ALWAYS get people using it 'just for fun' to piss somebody off. I agree that the best way would probably just be to not have a kick function at all, but I don't see that ever actually happening because the uproar from the community would be immense (they seem to like to have some sort of control over other players in their games). The solution to avoid unnecessary kicks, although not possible 100% of the time, is to play with friends (or at least 1 friend).

As for hero balancing... you mention how lots of heroes need work. Balancing heroes to perfection is not easy, and minor stat adjustments do actually help over time (drop a hero's stat gain by 0.1 a bunch of times and you're essentially nerfing that hero without most people even realizing it). You mention Balphagore as your first example of an underpowered hero. Balphagore functions pretty well when you have the proper team and laning setup to run him, but chances are you won't get the opportunity to do so unless you're playing with 4 friends.

The point is, you will always have heroes that are generally weaker than other heroes, and some that are generally stronger. It's just a part of the DotA genre.

[[S2]Dawnbringer]

Balphagore is a monstrously strong hero if used right, he hasbeen a pretty popular pick/ban competitively recently.

[[Raid]SirJefferE]

Votekick works fine currently. In order to be votekicked you need 100% of the people who aren't you to kick you. When that happens, 90% of the people in the game are happier for it.

Just get over it, stop doing whatever you're doing to get kicked, and re-queue.

[DivineAkiu]

Completely agree with votekick. It is completely abused. If a person picks scout they are insta vote kicked because your team hates you and the other team hates you. And thats in a freaking 1500mmr bracket. NO ONE should be kicked in that low of stats. If you want to play serious pro games get your "friends" and stomp above 1500mmr. But who cares, ok scout is hated then I wont pick scout. But now i have another problem, if i don't follow the orders of a group of friends perfectly they will vote kick me, and at first the other team is hesitant, but once i get bl or start doing decent the problem will come up again and this time i will be kicked quite easily. ELIMINATE VOTE KICK

[[Raid]SirJefferE]

"If I do things I know 9 people will willingly kick me for, I get kicked!"

Who would have thought.

[[RCT]IsmaelVera]

Balphagore is a monstrously strong hero if used right, he hasbeen a pretty popular pick/ban competitively recently.

This is the first time that I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Dawnbringer.

I played the most baddest balpha in the entire world...

Whoa whoa whoa...let's not exaggerate there kiddo. I'll show you my illegal item builds if you want to know how to really roll face.

[[S2]Dawnbringer]

This is the first time that I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Dawnbringer.



Whoa whoa whoa...let's not exaggerate there kiddo. I'll show you my illegal item builds if you want to know how to really roll face.

So that time that I said "IsmaelVera is awesome" you did not wholeheartedly agree? Interesting.

But yes, I do recall S2 taking out kick vote and one point and there was a massive uproar, it's one of those "can't please everyone" things.

[[NGAS]ZipperBear]

I want to watch OP play magebane and get his ass handed to him. I don't think you got what it takes OP.

[MutantJohn]

What this game did to Magina is verging on unforgivable. He's so much stronger in DotA that I never pick MB. Then again, MB can use a Satanic so...

[danyoboy]

I agree that the vote kick option can be abused with pp. using it more out of spite then real legit reasons. I've experienced it perhaps 4-5 times out of thousands of times so even though it made my blood boil at the time you have to just accept it and move onto the next game.

I also agree that many heros need to be re-balanced. When you check the heros stats and so many heros are consistently having 41-43% wins and others like EW (Ra before he was nerfed) score 55% consistently there is something definitely unkosher and imbalanced. A 10-12% difference in average percentage wins should sound an big alarm but S2 doesn't seem to notice.

Interesting you bring up Balphagore as I recently started to play him. I enjoy playing bal cos so few ppl use him (probably because of the aforementioned reasons) and are not aware of Bal's potential awesome disabling and ganking skills. But that is the point: "potential". Bal will rarely dominate or be a huge force in most games. Maybe he's not meant to be but it would be good to see his ult be more user friendly and powerful by not making it time out after a period. Let it stay permanently charged until it's next used.

In regards to MB, I probably would not totally agree as most MB suck or is fairly weak. Late game he is extremely hard to kill and yes OP. However, it takes some patience and skill to develop MB into the hard carry later on.

In closing, HoN is the ONLY game I play now. I forked out a small fortune with upgrading my MAC so it can run diablo 3 on top of the game price. Played through in 1-2 weeks and have not gone back to it since. D3 boasts good playability but really the most replayable game for me is HON as I can play the same hero multiple times in one go and not get sick of it after a thousand times. Well done to S2 for making a fantastic game that has so much depth and breadth. Even with some minor flaws it will continue to be my game for I hope a very long time.

[[NGAS]ZipperBear]

I agree that the vote kick option can be abused with pp. using it more out of spite then real legit reasons. I've experienced it perhaps 4-5 times out of thousands of times so even though it made my blood boil at the time you have to just accept it and move onto the next game.

I also agree that many heros need to be re-balanced. When you check the heros stats and so many heros are consistently having 41-43% wins and others like EW (Ra before he was nerfed) score 55% consistently there is something definitely unkosher and imbalanced. A 10-12% difference in average percentage wins should sound an big alarm but S2 doesn't seem to notice.

Interesting you bring up Balphagore as I recently started to play him. I enjoy playing bal cos so few ppl use him (probably because of the aforementioned reasons) and are not aware of Bal's potential awesome disabling and ganking skills. But that is the point: "potential". Bal will rarely dominate or be a huge force in most games. Maybe he's not meant to be but it would be good to see his ult be more user friendly and powerful by not making it time out after a period. Let it stay permanently charged until it's next used.

In regards to MB, I probably would not totally agree as most MB suck or is fairly weak. Late game he is extremely hard to kill and yes OP. However, it takes some patience and skill to develop MB into the hard carry later on.

In closing, HoN is the ONLY game I play now. I forked out a small fortune with upgrading my MAC so it can run diablo 3 on top of the game price. Played through in 1-2 weeks and have not gone back to it since. D3 boasts good playability but really the most replayable game for me is HON as I can play the same hero multiple times in one go and not get sick of it after a thousand times. Well done to S2 for making a fantastic game that has so much depth and breadth. Even with some minor flaws it will continue to be my game for I hope a very long time.

Dear S2, many heroes in this game have such low win rate % I think it's awful. Heroes like and MANY others all have CONSISTENTLY below 50% win rates. This is absolutely unacceptable! I could continue on but my sarcasm meter is depleting fast, point is win rate has nothing to do with balance, which is why S2 ignores it.

For example, how many games do you see ophelia played? I know I can only remember one game in the past month I've seen her. Does that make her imbalanced? Super weak? well by your logic no, since she has a 53% win rate. So how does that happen? Bad players know to stay away from her, while good players know how to use her. Gladiator is at an absolute pathetic win rate of 43%, but I wonder if you've ever been one shot by that beast of a hero.

[[ORGE]SexyGurl]

What this game did to Magina is verging on unforgivable. He's so much stronger in DotA that I never pick MB. Then again, MB can use a Satanic so...

If DotA Magina got ported to HoN it would absolutely destroy all meaning of the word balance. Magebane is a strong enough hero as it is (Fntc DHS?) and like you said, he is only a shadow of Magina.

Edit: To add on to the above posters argument of usage/win stats meaning nothing in the general game: In Beta Ophelia was the lowest used hero in the game with an average win-rate yet had the highest win % and one of the highest pick/ban rates in the competitive scene (K'T!?), hero stats don't mean anything when it comes to balance since they don't take in to consideration the heroes difficulty to use or the level of play that is being recorded.

[Grizfang]

I am very happy with how S2 handled votekick, not having it would mean you'd be unable to get rid of grievers and being kicked no longer gives you a leave so the penalty you suffer is just a few MMR points, which is something I'll gladly sacrifice to be able to leave a game with people that want to kick me for whatever reason.

[[GVD]Mernie]

I am very happy with how S2 handled votekick, not having it would mean you'd be unable to get rid of grievers and being kicked no longer gives you a leave so the penalty you suffer is just a few MMR points, which is something I'll gladly sacrifice to be able to leave a game with people that want to kick me for whatever reason.

I have never been able to kick a griefer succesfully.

Enemy team just declines the vote and they got ez peazy mmr

[Infamous23]

LOL

4char

[Infamous23]

What this game did to Magina is verging on unforgivable. He's so much stronger in DotA that I never pick MB. Then again, MB can use a Satanic so...

I don't get why people say this ..damn atleast Maginas mana burn is a attack modifier in dota 2.