Why helm of the black legion got nerfed

[tyrantanic]

Some theorycrafting for you:

About 5 months ago, after a large number of complaints from the community, received a good nerf by becoming charge based.

The whole strange this is before that, remained unchanged for a very long time, as far back as beta iirc. During that time, it was commonly considered a mediocre pickup on most heroes.

There have been different theories about WHY this item changed from mediocre to OP status. Some site the illusive "shift in the meta-game". They might be right. Who knows? The meta-game itself isn't easy to pin down.

Others say it's because some of the new S2 heroes benefit from it too much, such as pre-nerf and . But that doesn't explain why it became so good on other heroes like and , who remained unchanged for a very long time.

So I have this new, very simple theory about why became such a cry-worthy item. It's so simple, you might not even have noticed it: it's because they removed the secret shop 6 months before. Really, that's all there is to it. was never OP. It just became easier to build one.

I realized this recently when trying out that OTHER game, namely Dota 2, and tried to build a vanguard () on venomancer (). Vanguard does weigh in a bit lighter at 50 hp less than for the same price. But what I noticed was that building one was a TOTAL PAIN IN THE ASS. You can get the ring of health () from the side shop or secret shop, but not from the main base. You can only get the vitality booster () at the secret shop. On top of this, you don't get a free courier in dota 2, so making your trek across the map to build this sucker takes a lot of time, especially in that critical early game when is so important. I do remember doing all this in before HoN, but I never actually remembered how much of a pain it was until doing it all again.

So there you have it. My theory for the day.

[[EHOP]Epidemilk]

So I have this new, very simple theory about why became such a cry-worthy item. It's so simple, you might not even have noticed it: it's because they removed the secret shop 6 months before. Really, that's all there is to it. was never OP. It just became easier to build one.

I realized this recently when trying out that OTHER game, namely Dota 2, and tried to build a vanguard () on venomancer (). Vanguard does weigh in a bit lighter at 50 hp less than for the same price. But what I noticed was that building one was a TOTAL PAIN IN THE ASS. You can get the ring of health () from the side shop or secret shop, but not from the main base. You can only get the vitality booster () at the secret shop. On top of this, you don't get a free courier in dota 2, so making your trek across the map to build this sucker takes a lot of time, especially in that critical early game when is so important. I do remember doing all this in before HoN, but I never actually remembered how much of a pain it was until doing it all again.

So there you have it. My theory for the day.

It only takes a couple games of dota 2 to realize the secret shop was nothing but an unnecessary annoyance

[[Toho]Reimu]

It only takes a couple games of dota 2 to realize the secret shop was nothing but an unnecessary annoyance

Secret Shop to me has both good and bad sides to it.
The good is that it can lead to planned ganks on someone expected going there (or at least killing enemy team courier which grants your whole team gold).
The midleground (both good and bad) is that you have to run somewhere outside your base (or send your courier) to spend your gold before dying to get an item you desire, however dota handles gold slightly differently than in HoN due to reliable and unreliable gold.
The bad is mostly in pubs where unless you got it yourself, you have no courier and have to spend time leaving your lane to go to get something rather than just buy it into your stash like in HoN.

I think the biggest "saving" point that still keeps the Secret Shop acceptable in dota is the reliable/unreliable gold mechanic. If most of your gold is acquired from reliable sources (structures, courier, kills, assists, bounty hunter etc) then you don't mind the secret shop so much really. Dota in general though has other "issues" that HoN doesn't, and of course HoN has a few that dota doesn't. And since the games have gone different routes in some aspects it's simply expected. Now if they could only fix so you can set wards where you want them in dota2, it may actually be more fun and worthwhile to play. Having forced locations where you can ward is full on retard.

[[EHOP]Epidemilk]

The good is that it can lead to planned ganks on someone expected going there (or at least killing enemy team courier which grants your whole team gold).
The midleground (both good and bad) is that you have to run somewhere outside your base (or send your courier) to spend your gold before dying to get an item you desire, however dota handles gold slightly differently than in HoN due to reliable and unreliable gold.
The bad is mostly in pubs where unless you got it yourself, you have no courier and have to spend time leaving your lane to go to get something rather than just buy it into your stash like in HoN.

I remember having some really annoying moments where people don't listen and keep sending it back

Anyway the 'observatory' can be a spot to gank too...I'm surprised it doesn't happen more. See somebody low health anywhere kinda near it? Check there, he might be buying a pot. It's a nice less obvious spot for Engi traps too, and guaranteed to make someone very angry

[NavalIntrude]

Wow very nice write up! Agreed! Thx for your input! ^^

[ColddeviL]

This theory has legs.

[[RCT]Reldnahc]

How about no.

[[ACGS]Omniipotence]

How about no.

Such a great counter-argument. Truly.

[[ix3]Baer]

How about no.

This. Whenever I start a Dota2 game I try to build items where I don't have to use the secret shop, it's an annoyance.
Never feeled so relieved when I don't have to fly 5 more seconds with the flying courier to the secret shop and back to the lane.
If these extra 5 seconds you don't have to take anymore made HotBL op, then this game is screwed.

[PzKw]

As strange as it sounds, I'm of the opinion that ease of access contributed to the HOTBL FIRST EVERY HERO thing as well... Seriously....

[raeque]

sounds legit

[dpunk]

The problem with the old HotBL was if you got it early enough on certain heroes it was extremely strong. The EHP increase in those situations were too great. But I don't think nerfing it was needed, nor do I care that it was nerfed. I believe it was strong at the time because of the metagame.

[[f13]`11411181]

Let's ignore that whole "well, it gives just as much EHP as Behemoth's Heart for 40% of the cost" thing.....yeah, it was the Secret Shop!

[[S2]Dawnbringer]

Let's ignore that whole "well, it gives just as much EHP as Behemoth's Heart for 40% of the cost" thing.....yeah, it was the Secret Shop!

This is true. The issue with the old Helm was that the EHP it provided scaled too well with your maximum HP.

[tyrantanic]

Let's ignore that whole "well, it gives just as much EHP as Behemoth's Heart for 40% of the cost" thing.....yeah, it was the Secret Shop!

The HotBL's EHP advantage drops as the game goes on, and depends on different factors, such as your opponent's attack damage / speed, and %physical vs %magic damage. Someone might want to show the exact math for it, but the point is is that it drops over time.

Now, Dota has had vanguard for ages, and though it's 50hp less than HotBL for the same cost, it hasn't been ousted as being completely broken compared to Heart of Tarrasque (dota's behe heart counterpart). Now dota does have a different hero pool, but if the item were as broken as you say it is, that shouldn't really matter. Why ever get a Heart of Tarrasque when you can get a vanguard at 40% of the cost!

HotBL wasn't really broken per se, it was just broken early on. If I got one < 8 minutes as zephyr, I could walk into almost any teamfight and faceroll them. But > 15 minutes I couldn't. That simple.

[[TECH]Gorb]

Different metagames means that HoN is evolving in a different way to DotA/DotA 2. Therefore when we saw the rise in occurence of "tanky" heroes in HoN that contributed to a "tanky" metagame (that was in turn countered by a spell of high-damage/utility nukers) highlighted the strength of the old HotBL.

Often it's difficult to tell if someone is too strong or weak until you see it being used a lot.

EDIT: yeah the above poster put it a tad more succinctly.

[tyrantanic]

Therefore when we saw the rise in occurence of "tanky" heroes in HoN that contributed to a "tanky" metagame (that was in turn countered by a spell of high-damage/utility nukers) highlighted the strength of the old HotBL.

Maybe it was the easy purchase of HotBL that gave rise to the tanky metagame? Just a thought.

Let's look at the way I play zephyr, as he went unchanged for a long time, until more recent nerfs.

When I USED to play zephyr, I'd usually do something like this (with secret shop):
1. Go to short lane
2. Try to farm up gold for life tube
3. Try to buy a life tube from the side shop IF the lane is pushed, but more likely to get ganked if it is. If not, run courier up to secret shop to get life tube. Hope we have a courier! Remember, free courier was added AFTER secret shop was removed. If it's walking, need to walk it back to base first so it doesn't die. Hope mid doesn't want that courier! Almost never had flying courier that early in pub games.
4. I'd usually go jungle at this point, but might stay if farm is good.
5. Use courier to bring boots.
6. Again, run courier up to secret shop to get beast heart, back down to base (if walking), and back to me. Hope mid doesn't want that courier!
7. Now I can kick ass with my HotBL!

- Note, if I happen to die, I have to walk/port myself or send courier to the secret shop to get lifetube and beast heart.


This is how I usually play zephyr NOW (no secret shop):
1. Go to short lane.
2. Try to farm up gold for life tube
3. Try to buy a life tube from the side shop IF the lane is pushed. If not, have the courier bring it to me. I can also have it deliver it to me when jungling close to base so it only makes a short trip.
4. I usually go jungle at this point, but might stay if farm is good.
5. Use courier to bring boots. Like #3, a short trip with the courier in the jungle.
6. Use courier to get beast heart. Like #3, a short trip with the courier in the jungle.
7. Now I can kick ass with my HotBL!

- Note, if I happen to die, I can just buy components in base.

I don't know about you, but I like version #2 a lot better. And remember, HotBL was an item that rocked when you got it EARLY, because it's physical deflection was such a large part of your enemy's auto attacks. Got it 3-5 minutes later and you were quite a bit less powerful.

[[TECH]Gorb]

Maybe it was the easy purchase of HotBL that gave rise to the tanky metagame? Just a thought.

I doubt it, though it may have been a factor. However I lean towards the notion that due to item reworks and/or item additions are so rare in comparison to hero releases, hero releases are (primarily) what drive metagame shifts (across the playerbase in general, I realise the hero release schedule into Competitive Mode is staggered somewhat) - in addition to changes in player hero choices at the top levels of play.

HotBL did not change during the rise of the "tanky" style of play. Ergo, it's rise in popularity was as a consequence of the rise in "tanky" play and not a cause. At least, in my opinion.

[tyrantanic]

HotBL did not change during the rise of the "tanky" style of play.

Oh but it did change. It's easy purchase effectively lowered it's price, by a respectable amount.

[man_guy]

Tying up the courier for a little longer wasn't what stopped anyone from going Helm of the Black Legion.