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I feel with everything I do in life, you are the product of what you are surrounded by. So if you are surrounded by junkies who base their lives on a substance, you'll be a junkie. If you are surrounded by entrepreneurs who have the notion of success and determination, you will be just as hard working.
So apply this notion to HoN.
If you are surrounded by 1500's which have certain habits, ideologies, and mentalities that hinder them from reaching higher (ex. not last hitting correct as a carry, not ganking as a ganker, not warding and stacking as a support), after 20-100 of those games you are going to reproduce those habits that are ideal of the 1500.
I feel this applies with each bracket.
On another account a few months ago, I remember being stuck in the 1500 bracket whining about why I can't get advance up. So I found out how easy it was to stomp the game withpre-nerf when we was completely broken. I stomped my way up to the upper 1700 bracket with so many kids cry about how imba it was.
Then I decided to play normal heroes in my newfound bracket. It was very quick for myself to find out that I did not belong there as I was repeatedly kicked to the curb every game. However, I picked up a lot of habits quickly on my descend back to where I belong.
However, I stayed in the 1600-1650's afterwards because I was so used to playing in the upper 1700's. To look back at the 1500's, it would've took me ages to get out by trying to simulate the advice from the forums instead of getting my hands first hand into what the higher bracket was like.
I probably pissed off a lot of people along my solo que route with the fact that I didn't belong in certain games via skillwise. But my learning curve shot up through the roof.
What do you guys think about this?
Do not what to think, but I do have a question. What does IMba mean?
short for imbalanced
And you know, the more specific delusions about Pred jungling or Flint midding, both terrible ideas if you actually think about it, but hey, they seen so many other scrubasses do it, it must be goodOriginally Posted by Ped``Ophelia
What I think about it? I think it's how people get MMR, as this is Hon's curse. People picking imbalanced heroes, winning the game without actually playing it, is exactly what I keep saying. Until a major balance is made on several heroes, I think your "way" is going to stay the "way" of a good % of the players that can't play this game unless they pick a hero that wins for them.
Heck, I won't say the so-called "pros" are bad, but I keep thinking from watching the honcasts and videos that if you give them heroes that aren't overpowered, it will start to show that some of them are just normal, slightly-more-trained players that can't play unless they go broken picks. That's also why I am reaaally eager to see what the lock-pick will end up showing of the competitive scene once they have a couple of events with that mode and (hopefully) they will pick heroes that are unorthodox / usually unplayed.
If my comment offended some, sorry. I would be glad to be proven wrong, but I am pretty certain what I said holds a lot of truth.
I don't watch streams often, but when I do, there's a lot of picks of heroes which aren't OP/broken. I'm a fan of CarDinal's Succubus plays, and she's a well-balanced hero imo. I've also spec'ed a few scrims involving clans like tDM, CM, etc., and they do try new things that aren't always the usual. :P
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Training Grounds Moderator | RCT Member | Support/Ranged Semi-Carry/Suicide Ringer For 1700-1800+ Scrims | Cupcake Baker ☆彡
How isn't succubus not broken? Basically a pure damage spell that gives her hp, with the longest immobilization spell in game, and an instant-kill ultimate the moment you have 1 or 2 teamate with a brain that will deal with the remaining 2 heroes and a half you didn't completely render useless...
Succubus and Polywog are about the cheapest int heroes in the roster (only outshined by the cheaper heroes of the other stats)
* And because I'm straying from the post, just an addition to my previous post (I will stop to reply after for the sake of keeping in-subject and already have strayed)
"Weaker heroes" would be characters like empath, martyr, blitz, revenant, rhapsody, nymphora or just about any character that requires some playing skills; not retarded armaddon / deadwood / any cheap stupid carry that farms easy and starts to own passed level 6.
Always somehow makes me discomfortable when I watch a cast with the announcer praising and commenting on how amazing someone is when they kill a tower with polywog's broken ultimate, or how much of a skilled player an armaddon is for not dying often and farming gold like a monster. All the videos I have seen so far involved polywog / behemoth / silhouette / magebane / corrupted disciple / dark lady, unless banned from the beginning.
I'm glad Lockpick will give a chance to the other heroes (or at least it has the potential to do so)
Last edited by MushidoZ; 06-30-2012 at 06:43 PM.
I can understand pred jungling being plane dumb, it's to slow and inconsistent. Flint isn't the best ganker, but his range is abusive and his last hitting capabilities are dominate mid.
Moon supposedly got an Annihilation once as Empath. :P
Lalond and a few other streamers do play support on their streams too (Nymphora is a common pickup for big ult plays lol).
Forum Moderators are not S2 Games employees. My posts in no way represent the view of S2 Games or any of its staff.
Please use the report post function
Check the Sticky Threads for additional information on this sub-forum and the Announcement Threads for more information about Heroes of Newerth as a whole!
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Training Grounds Moderator | RCT Member | Support/Ranged Semi-Carry/Suicide Ringer For 1700-1800+ Scrims | Cupcake Baker ☆彡
empath is not weak,she needs a carry
martyr is good,needs just brain and positioning
revenant is very good
nymphora is op and awesome
armadon and dw get countered by wards,harass,armor,BRAIN!
pollywog(or succubus) are DISABLERS.they are not imba,they are just annoying.What you must remember is that they are squishy and get countered by null/sh,and die from 2-3 hits from a carry with those items.
magebane is indeed hard to shut down and the most gay carry out there.
The so-called OP heros you're talking about are mostly the less team-reliant ones, that can stomp a game by themselves with little to no effort. Yes, it is infinetly easier to get out of low brackets withthan with
. Why? Because the former group has a much stronger influencer earlier, and has a much easier time capitalizing on enemy's mistakes than the second group, which happen all the time in this bracket. It's not a matter of them being OPd for the most part (well, I would argue some in the list are, though), but there's no real reason why you'd want to risk games relying on teammates when you can simply wait for an enemy to commit on a wrong time/overextend/ignore you and start steamrolling by yourself, and demoralizing the enemy team (which, at any signs of disadvantage will promptly CC at this bracket because they can't ward properly, they can't farm properly or can't defend/countergank in time).
In all, people just want the 'easy' way out. However, practice has shown that most of the picks in the first group often fade in usefulness as people's MMR rises (which is why they're stuck at the low bracket again, trying to 'stomp' out of it with the same heros over and over again).
anyway this "method" might have the same effect as watching pro streams.You learn new good habits,and forget those bad habits you learned with bad players.For example,since i watched a few prostreams,i now know where to ward way much better,i know to stack when farming,i know to stack&pull,i know a few more hiding spots,i know to hide when i tp,to last-hit creeps as carry is better than getting herokills and no ck,a few other builds for carries,how to support,and i can go on.
I'll be honest, the "pro" videos I've seen so far did not impress me much in general ^^ I see a lot of polywog ult screwing towers and a lot of cheap carry owning the weaker heroes and ending up winning (same as regular games, pretty much). Fact of the matter, I also see quite a lot of underleveled / bad score heroes by the end of the game (the last vid I watched was a final and those who came second position had 3 heroes with 0 kill, something like 6-8 deaths and very low assists). They do understand how the game works better than the usual baddies I am teamed up with in my games though <.<
Really seems to me like it's characters that determine the player, not the other way around (which is sad).
Nothing is cheap in competition. If you don't pick Pollywog and use his ultimate to kill towers, someone else will. The entire point of the game is to beat the opposition by any means necessary, if you want to be honorable or whatever you want to call it, you'll get consistently owned by people who aren't. The hero pool is a part of the game, short of picking a hero with a bugged ability (Like the legionnaire insane damage charge bug a while back) there is nothing that's unfair. Picking the best heroes is perhaps the biggest part of the game and although low rated players (like myself) usually don't realize it, many games are decided at the picking screen.
I've seen plenty of pro players dominate with "weak" heroes. I remember watching Chu melt his opponents repeatedly with Engineer, which sure as heck isn't overpowered. Testie picks all kinds of heroes and almost always wins mid.
Only scrubs whine about their opponents' picks. Good players find ways to deal with them, whether it be item builds or counter picks or just consistently ganking them all game.
scrubs will NEVER counter a hero,they will just complain
Theres no really "easy" way to get out of the lower bracket besides playing a lot. I know that sounds like a dick move but being good comes down to knowing what to do. Hypothetically, you're playing SS and you have 350~ GPM and their hard carry has 450~ with no BKB. If you are able to farm a sheep and lock him down and kill him, it's an easy rax. It doesn't even have to be this specific. I see way too many scouts going shieldbreaker/MKB/Wingbow/etc etc/ and the other team has an omni that just hits R. Wheres the diffusal? Wheres the Harkons?
Moreover the game comes down to postion. If you're that 450 gpm carry without bkb, you can survive with good position. But it's not something you can just tell a 1400 to do. Your playing an Enigma and your team is pushing and the other team jumps you as you are making a conversion, and they win the team battle and take a rax. That was because of poor position that lost you the game. All this stuff comes with playing more games.
I understand that watching the minimap is a good thing, but position is more than that. It's going in last as a hard support, it's knowing your limits when you are underfarmed, its about playing a carry and not standing in stun range of a SK and getting stun locked. You just can't teach these things. There are a lot of 1700's out there with great skill, but it you keep getting the "cookie cutter" items, you're never going to go to the next level.
Guide to getting out of the 1500 with mk easy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOmXi4aVFjc
This is the HoN forums, not the DOTA forums. You using DOTA names for everything doesn't make you sound 1337, it just makes people like me who didn't play DOTA have no clue what you're talking about and skipping your post.
This is also a game based on dota and many players have played it before moving into hon. To me it makes sense if someone is used to those dota terms. Even I know every ported/semi-ported heroes/item.
Nope, it doesn't make any sense at all. Everyone who plays HoN knows the HoN terms, only the people who played both games know the DOTA terms, meaning the most logical approach is to use the HoN terms, simply because then you're sure everyone knows what you're talking about. I've played DOTA like once, and I played DOTA2 quite a bit, yet there were several phrases he used that I've no idea about.
There's absolutely no reason to use the DOTA terms over the HoN terms, so why not use the terms you know everyone understand?
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